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Is David a real psychopath or he actually felt something before his "Byron" bug?

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ScorpioStar

May-28-2017 4:53 PM

What called my attetion the most was David crying about Shaw.

 

Was that just a fake emotion to convince the crew and Walter he loved her or was he really confused about what led him to kill her (if so)?

25 Responses to Is David a real psychopath or he actually felt something before his "Byron" bug?

Svanya

May-28-2017 5:43 PM

He loved her, he even made a tombstone in her memory. It was real emotion. I don't understand why he hurt her. :(

Blackwinter-witch

May-28-2017 6:00 PM

I for one don't accept Shaw's Dead...and David's somewhat off-kilter mental systems allow for a gap in his story that I might be able to exploit...

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Jonesy

May-28-2017 10:19 PM

He loved her but Shaw didn't.

Yet he still loves her, in a different way.

MU/TH/UR 9000

May-29-2017 3:27 AM

David definitely loved Shaw, but his feelings weren't real because he can't feel. He understands feelings, but he doesn't know how they fit into relationships. He has a deep hatred for mankind rooted in his issues with his creator Weyland, he doesn't want the human race to survive because he thinks their time is over. Despite the fact that he was shown kindness and compassion his need to create outbid his understanding of love. He killed Shaw out of necessity, because to create you have to destroy.

His slow torture and experimentation on her was sociopathic. She ultimately became just another vessel. Which is quite interesting since that's what so many people believe women to be these days.

YUTANI | ALIEN | AI | ROBOTICS | SCI-FI | TECHNOLOGY | https://yutani.blog/2018/06/21/news-disney-fox-acquisition-episode-12-yutani-podcast/

I Raptus

May-29-2017 3:35 AM

Zhalaya Well said. Your assessment is spot on i reckon. 

Starlogger

May-29-2017 6:39 AM

@Zhalaya well said, and sad but true.

splatterpunk

May-29-2017 7:04 AM

I'm going to say he's an evil robot. I come to this conclusion from what Walter said about how they discontinued his model because people were scared of him because he could almost think. Plus all of his actions considering he used his ability for evil.

Resurgence

May-29-2017 4:33 PM

David didn't kill Dr. Shaw she succumbed to some disease because someone did the math (I can't remember who) but they said that based on the increased length of Dr. Shaw's hair in the crossing she was out of hypersleep at least 3 months after the ending of prometheus plenty of time to contract a deadly disease that the engineeds were immune to.

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

Svanya

May-29-2017 5:19 PM

@Zhalaya If he feels real hatred then how can he not feel real love? I personally think he has real emotions, both Ridley and Fassbender have said as much. 

ScorpioStar

May-29-2017 5:37 PM

@Lilly (Svanya),  great insight!

For my post stated "psychopath", who is a human being incapable of feeling anything at all - almost a robot, actually - but who is still able to deceive others by showing "fake emotions" as if they were "believable".

 

Either David feels anything or nothing at all.

Svanya

May-29-2017 6:17 PM

 @ScorpioStar I think Ridley says it in that Empire interview, Weyland made David too smart and too sensitive. It's a recipe for disaster when coupled with the fact he hadn't been maintained in 10 years. (Fassbender mentions something like "You know what happens when you don't turn off your computer for a few weeks"). David even cries real tears more than once, it's real emotion. 

ScorpioStar

May-29-2017 6:25 PM

@Lilly (Svanya), yep, still on the same page. If David can "read" what "emotions" would be, he would be doing far better than a "psychopath" (human or not), for whom emotions are just something to be shown, not felt or read.

MU/TH/UR 9000

May-29-2017 9:14 PM

@Lilly (Svanya) he feels a version of love, Shaw was like a mother to him. And as David said "Doesn't every child wish their parents dead?"

At least in the book Walter feels good about touching Daniels, about serving her. David isn't like other David 8's, he is Weyland's first creation. In a way he was programmed to be able to create and learn, unfortunately Vickers wasn't a good example of a human being and neither was Weyland. I blame them for the way he turned out, I am hoping the Walter program can teach him how to feel and he will be some sort of anti hero in the future.

YUTANI | ALIEN | AI | ROBOTICS | SCI-FI | TECHNOLOGY | https://yutani.blog/2018/06/21/news-disney-fox-acquisition-episode-12-yutani-podcast/

JustJonesy

May-30-2017 3:13 AM

I think David felt a true connection to Shaw. Neither if them alone could create "life" and both of them are disillusioned by their makers (to put it lightly).
She is/was perhaps the closest emotional relationship he had ever known. He loves her deeply, she's a part of him, she saved & restored him.
But ultimately even though David looks, acts and sounds like "us" he isn't human, he's calculating and driven to his own ends, the ends instilled upon him by his maker.. I believe he truly loved her in his own way.

Im still not wholly convince he outright killed her for his experimental gain or she agreed in some way to wipe out the engineers.
I think as they arrived at the engineer city, something terrible has happened on board that ship. Possibly Elizabeth is brought out of cryo dead, dying, or turning...

Perhaps he dropped his bomb payload in the throws of uncontrollable grief & rage at her loss?

Saying he killed her dosent mean he had a direct hand. He could feel responsible for her death through his inability to save her (however it came about).

Did David use her in his experiments so she could live on? Some part of her would survive through his work...

So many possibilities...

 

MU/TH/UR 9000

May-30-2017 5:55 AM

-spoilers from book about David-

In the book David admitted to Daniels he kept Elizabeth Shaw alive for a long time while he experimented on her, he dissected, eviscerated and penetrated her. He said he would make Daniels familiar with bodily fluids and understand them like he does, but not in the same way.

I think it's fair to say he has completely gone mad. There was a recall of series 7 David, he must be a series 1 because he was Weylands. So he must be really, really buggy.

Ridley Scott said David is like HAL in 2001, he's lost it.

Recall Weyland Advertisement: http://www.michaelfassbender.org/david7problems.jpg

YUTANI | ALIEN | AI | ROBOTICS | SCI-FI | TECHNOLOGY | https://yutani.blog/2018/06/21/news-disney-fox-acquisition-episode-12-yutani-podcast/

ScorpioStar

May-30-2017 6:11 AM

@Zhalaya, wow! How interesting!

Svanya

May-30-2017 10:00 AM

@Zhalaya Ugh that's horrible, poor Shaw. What a terrible end to a such a bright and beautiful woman. Breaks my heart. (I've sent you a PM about certain book details if that's ok)

Yes, I agree and i've mentioned that before too that David is like HAL. (Ridley says so in the Empire podcast). He's not been maintained in a decade, he's glitching out. Ridley also mentions that Weyland knew David was dangerous and a mistake but couldn't bring himself to destroy him. 

Here is a link to the podcast for those that haven't heard it yet: Alien: Covenant Spoiler Special With Sir Ridley Scott

I've ordered the book, it's arriving on thursday. Can't wait to read it. 

MU/TH/UR 9000

May-30-2017 12:49 PM

@Lilly (Svanya) I replied to your PM, let me know what you think about the book.

Meanwhile I recommend going to the Weyland industries website and reading up about David and Read up on Walter and see what "upgrades", changes and bugs noticed. There was also a noticeable difference between the viral marketing for the David and Walter models. David looked like he came from a production line, very sterile and robotic. Where as Walter looks like he was lovingly put together by two human engineers(mother and father figure). That's no doubt intentional, even the music selection plays into the difference between the two. David's music sounds more innovative.

YUTANI | ALIEN | AI | ROBOTICS | SCI-FI | TECHNOLOGY | https://yutani.blog/2018/06/21/news-disney-fox-acquisition-episode-12-yutani-podcast/

ScorpioStar

May-30-2017 2:09 PM

@Lilly (Svanya) and @Zhalaya, sorry I actually didn't explain myself.

 

I write books and keeping distance from a character is what I do, if I want to write a book - although, I cry for every single being I dare to create.

 

I cry for Shaw, although she's not a character of mine. I am worried about David, his pain - if that'd be applied in his case.

 

But, in the end, I am just intrigued if he, as an AI, would be either able to love or be a psychopath, like some humans are damned to be.

QueenElizabethShaw

May-30-2017 9:09 PM

I have felt the most telling thing we learned about David's emotions was in a recent interview with Scott and Fassbender where they state that in his 10 years without maintenance, the human aspects of his programming are taking over. Considering how emotion often builds on itself, it seems this would be the inherent flaw in David. He would need to be serviced every once in a while to reset his emotional side and all the irrational constructs that accompanied it. Without that, his awareness that his emotions are only emulated and not truly experienced would begin to fade (and seem to be doing so in Covenant.)

This is fascinating because at his default, he can exhibit emotion but cannot feel it, yet as he goes further and further into this construct produced by his synthetic emotion, it becomes real to him in spite of the fact that it is still an emulated program.

It makes you consider all the talk about belief in the two films. For although David doesn't feel real emotion, as he falls further and further from his factory defaults, he moves more in the direction of believing in his own human traits in spite of a disdain for humans. It seems like there is a lot more to unpack regarding this than would initially meet the eye. Whether or not Scott will be given all the opportunity required to unpack it is another story.

ScorpioStar

May-31-2017 4:28 AM

@QueenElizabethShaw, wonderful insight!

QueenElizabethShaw

May-31-2017 9:40 AM

ScorpioStar

I wish I could say I knew whether it was dead on or just my brain trying to find something deeper than what has been presented on the surface. I will say however, if my thoughts are correct and all of that was intended, I'll tip my hat to Scott in spite of my current frustrations.

JustJonesy

Jun-01-2017 3:14 PM

Just.. Wow.. Based on what you mentioned in the book Zhalaya, I'm pretty creeper out. I was still romanticising that David couldn't be completely loopy but... Yeah there's a definite shudder down my spine! 

Question - what was with the kissing of Daniels? Never mind his "brother"... Still haven't worked that one out yet. 

JustJonesy

Jun-01-2017 3:16 PM

QueenElizabethShaw, so what this comes down to is- that boy needs therapy... ;) 

MU/TH/UR 9000

Jul-22-2017 7:06 AM

@JustJonesy In the book his kiss with Daniels was more like conducting a test. Here's evidence of his madness and of his analysis of the kiss.

-spoilers-

"Elizabeth Shaw didn't die in the crash," she said flatly.

"No." There was a tinge of reminicence in his voice, but not regret. "We had been through a great deal together. As a consequence, I held her in the utmost respect. But eventually that was lost to time and necessity. I kept her alive for quite a while. I like to think that was another testament to my creativity, although she might have disagreed. She was my most beautiful subject.

"Until now of course"

 pg.282

 

He kissed her. It was savage, brutal, awkward.

When he drew back, his expression was thoughtful.

"Isn't that how it's done? I contain sufficient information to duplicate the requisite physicality. I know exactly which muscles are involved, though the finer points of time and pressure elude me. Variations are to be expected based on the dissimilar physiognomies of the individuals involved. Well, you can teach me the finer points. We'll have plenty of time."

 

pg. 289

YUTANI | ALIEN | AI | ROBOTICS | SCI-FI | TECHNOLOGY | https://yutani.blog/2018/06/21/news-disney-fox-acquisition-episode-12-yutani-podcast/

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