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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

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Ridley Scott confirms David WAS the originator of the xenomorph AND that the beings he bombarded were in fact engineers.

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-25-2017 11:17 AM

According to Ridley Scott, the beings David bombed were in fact engineers. He addresses this in the recent podcast with Empire magazine and he also indicates that David DID create the original xenomorph, not the engineers.

The podcast can be listened to here and both of these admissions are discussed between the time stamps
26:47 - 27:36.

Thoughts?

Replies

WilliamPotter

Member

3

Posted May-25-2017 11:20 AM

What about the Mural wall in Prometheus?

chli

Member

23

Posted May-25-2017 11:31 AM

Perhaps he has looked too deep in the whisky bottle? :)

Dark Nebula

Moderator

46

Posted May-25-2017 11:48 AM

I like it.

The mural from prometheus featured a creature simmilar to the xenomorphs, like its emerging from the black goo. And those facehuggers that are all the way down are way bigger (simmilar size as trilobite) than the classic ones.

What David did was tampering with the black goo and the creatures it spawned, and he somehow managed to create the xenomorph.

It was already explained in Alien: covenant that the black goo is capable of mutating living things or using them as an incubator for these hybridized predators.

mercury26

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 11:53 AM

The mural may represent a blueprint of what the Engineers were attempting to engineer with the black goo.  Meaning they never finished the work before the outbreak, David may have just finished/perfected the design and implemented it.

chli

Member

23

Posted May-25-2017 11:55 AM

The problem is the eggs in the derelict on LV-426. Scott has to make up his mind whether they are decades or millennials old.

Chrono89

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 11:58 AM

I have no doubt that David created the strain (sub species, mutation?) of Xeno we see in Alien, but the base species we know he did not, but as for engineers, imo, I believe they (those whom were bombed) may have been as others have suggested, a race genetically advanced towards the engineers, due to the size of the colony, or on the other hand it could be just that, a primitive engineer colony, but then that begs the question of why the lack of technology ? Also why the lack of other colonies on the planet investigating once that one goes dark ? There would have been a response of some sort ? Just a wild question :)

SteveRogers1973

Member

8

Posted May-25-2017 12:13 PM

Ok, I'm a big Ridley fan and a big Alien fan but let's be honest....we've gone so far off the reservation here that I don't see any plausible way that we can back into Alien (original).  I mean, C'mon....this is crazy.  we're talking about multiple alien races at this point...

Brian51

Member

1

Posted May-25-2017 12:20 PM

Ridley Scott is an asshole.

Chrono89

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 12:27 PM

SteveRogers let me rephrase, the previous iterations of David's creations would be considered as his prototypes as he works towards his goal of the perfect biomechanical organism we see in Alien. Although we see something similar in appearance in AC, it does lack refinement on a large scale, potency of the molecular blood, tail spade, stealth factor, some of the visual traits such as the hardened areas and back flairing and head adornment, the lack of a larval stage. To me, this makes me tend to believe at this stage the Xeno we are seeing is still being developed. If RS is going to discount his original film properties, there is a serious lack of integrity.

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 12:36 PM

There are now three threads dealing with this issue and to restate what I have already said :-

1) In Prometheus we are introduced to what Damon in the commentary calls an Alien Mutagen Ridley in the commentary calls an Ebola like virus. In the crossing it is renamed the A L I E N Pathogen and we  see its horrific effects in AC and in the novelisation David explains its capacity for mutation and re assembly which explains everything that went on in Prometheus. It is clearly not the life giving catalyser ingested by the acolyte which seeds worlds positively. It is an accident and a reflection of what happens when you steel the fire and sub create out of the natural order of things which David will repeat in Awakening and his creations, like him and his relationship with his creators, will get away from him (says Ridley). 

2) On LV223 we see how this deadly pathogen has evolved out of   experiments to tamper with sub creation. It leads to creatures like that featured in the fresco and the two Deacon like creatures which appear in the mural which were clearly sacrificed, which as David explains in the novelisation reconstitutes the pathogen material into another cycle. As Charlie states looking at the mural looking at the submerged head (which replaced a sacrificial cup) this is a tomb. A tomb of what Ridley called in the winter of 2015 the forerunner to the xxx121. 

3) Ridley has altered his thinking about how to frame the story originally the derelict and jockey were contemporaneous with the LV223 outbreak, give our take 200 years. Then he decided to write straight prequels to give people their Xeno fix, which they clamoured for after Prometheus and with A 5, and he clearly decided to place the Jockey and the Eggs in the future. So Dallas was wrong he did not carbon date it, it was not thousands of years old. Ridley has stated we will find out whom the Jockey is in Awakening. Origa in Latin means charioteer, helmsman and the constellation they are going to is the constellation of the Waggoner. It cannot possibly be coincidence that they are going to Origae 6, helmsman, charioteer, Jockey.

So Ridley 31st December Digital Spy

Prometheus - Origins of the Xenomorph the A L I E N pathogen

Covenant    - Who and why David.

Awakening  - The joining up backing in to Alien.  

We do not have to like it we know this was not the original concept in 1979 or 2012 but it is where we are going and he makes it clear again in the Podcast.  

There are Easter Eggs in the mural and David misleads Oram about an empty Ovamorph in the novelisation but every single other element of the film and the novelisation leads to one conclusion and if Alan Dean Foster has written an approved extension which covers the period between P and AC called A L I E N : Origins, if that does not deal with the origin of the creature which occurred after P and before C knock me down with a feather.      

We can debate it we can find anomalies (are those chest busted pilots in the orrery or like the beheaded guy and some in AC internal explosions) we can decide not to buy it but thats the journey we are on. Personally I was looking for the theme of Paradise Lost to play out with the retribution the Engineers suffered coming out of punishment for their wickedness and David then recreates the critter. The kind of thing implied by the poster but thats not on the menu.  

One other thing thats all over the novelisation they are tall dudes with big steps, big suits and they are called Engineers. They clearly are more rustic and simpler and less magnificent in their physique and appearance than the LV223 boys but they are Engineers.  

Gralen

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 12:36 PM

So he says that are Engineers. Okay.

Lets summarize why they can probably be tech-wise primitive and look different then in the Prometheus intro.

1) Apparently millions of years passed since the sacrificial Engineer scene and that race evolved to have different body characteristics.

2)Only one city and primitive technology.

2.1 It's a small sacral outpost (one of hundreds/thousands other different outposts) and the more primitive look with the robes is intended for their local rituals or whatever they do there.

2.2 This is their homeworld .Which sounds weird at first since they are a space faring race since millions of years(Juggernaut map scene with hundreds of worlds in our and other galaxies).

Maybe some major war long time ago destroyed most of the surface/orbital structures which got eroded/overgrown by the nature over the millennia.

And the only big city on this planet (with the flying scorpion) was an attempt to rebuild their society.

 

I personally dont believe this is their homeworld but somehow can accept these beings are indeed Engineers since evolution dont make an exception for them even if much more advanced.

 

Brian51

Member

1

Posted May-25-2017 12:53 PM

So to be clear, i have to read a novelization of a f-ing movie to connect dots and fully understand the plot? No. Just no. 

The only thing I want to see now is a xeno popping out of Ridley Scott's chest. ;-)

Lone

Member

73

Posted May-25-2017 12:58 PM

I never doubted that they were Engineers, just not those at the top of the foodchain. Also closer to the Sacrificial type than Bio-suited BOBs. :)

Ridley never elaborates and why is it that no-one ever comes right out and asks the questions we want answers to? I've yet to see or hear one interview where anything really important or interesting has been asked!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted May-25-2017 1:16 PM

We need to remember RS and FOX have made a mess of things, because they have not stuck with a PLAN.

From the Inception the Plan was these Engineers are creators of Mankind and other Races, they seed Worlds and at times have to destroy what the create and that LV-223 was a place that at some point at the very least... leads to the Black Goo Bio-Weapon that is either.

1) Engineered to create Xenomorph like Organisms.

2) Is created from Xenomorph like Organisms.

This does not mean the Engineers created the Xenomorph, but the idea was that they did....

But it seems FOX and RS have THROWN OUT Alien and Prometheus, its like Logan never saw those movies and RS is suffering from dementia

They have just not done any homework and are now trying a bit of a lazy aproach to brush all that was Prometheus under the carpet and Shoe-horn in a Direct Connection to Alien by giving us another Bombshell Curve-ball...

I think they have to consider bringing another Race in to play the Space Jockey, but even if this Space Jockey is shown to be a Synthetic or a Human..

SADLY we have to accept this, and the flaws are just Oversights, just like we have to pretend those beings on Paradise are Engineers.... they are intended to be such and its just a Oversight they got Lazy with the Makeup..

Then look at the scene as being a throw away quick explanation to wipe the Engineers under the carpet that was on screen for a few seconds up close and so we are not supposed to noticed the slight differences.

It just shows sometimes Ridleys Attention to detail is PISS POOR

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted May-25-2017 1:28 PM

But in a bit of RS Defense...  FOX Ultimately set the Budget, the allotted screen-time for a Movie and choices as far as where they want to take it.

It will be interesting to read the Book, as i heard is states that David came across a Egg and it was created by the Engineers and he had to Euthanize the Organism as it was too Hostile and he began to experiment and improve it.

Regarding Origae-6 it would be interesting if they went to this place but i find it would be LAZY in a way and well just Pure Coinsidence... that this Place has anything related to the Engineers... bit of Lazy Writing that by Coinsidence while on there way to World relalted to the Engineers (unknown to the crew) they are diverted to a World of the Engineers (Planet 4) by a signal from a Human who had been prior to another World of the Engineers... and now the survivor of that Mission in Prometheus, is now taking the Covenant to another World of the Engineers where they Covenant was originally going.

You watch them show us David had Planned and Programed this from Day One and set up the Prometheus Mission, the Covenant Mission all for his own Agenda as this is the kind of Poor writing we are seeing here.

This is going to mean the Covenant is leaving Planet 4 in around the year 2105 (mid December 2104) and will take 7 years to get to Origae-6 and then that puts us at the year late 2111 and early 2112 which then leaves them 9-10 years to Shoe-horn David and his Eggs to LV-426 which bare in mind if he does not discover a Engineer ship on Origae-6 means another 7 years back to Earth or say 5-7 back to LV-426 Potentially putting the Derelict on LV-426 as being there for 3-5 years before the events of Alien.

We need also remember that the Covenant had been on its way to Origae-6 by the time it had to Re-charge with the Sails which means it would have been traveling already about 1.5 to 2 years at least and no more than 5 (due to W-Y Merger).

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

Brian51

Member

1

Posted May-25-2017 1:30 PM

Thank you Dave!

As an aside, I always thought that Prometheus could've been a perfect prequel if RS just replaced the vases with eggs...or hell just have another room of eggs. We can connect dots independently and even accept a slightly different xeno (that deacon thing) and all move forward with the story...he'd essentially be saying: here's where they came from...get it? good now lets move forward....he could have went forward and made more engineer films (per his fascination with Ancient Aliens). 

 

Lone

Member

73

Posted May-25-2017 1:34 PM

Brian51 Totally agree, I always wished that the crew had checked out one of the other temples and found eggs there and in it's associated Juggernaut. *SIMPLES*

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted May-25-2017 1:40 PM

"SADLY we have to accept this..." Well, and they have to accept that I will GLADLY stop spending money on the franchise. As simple as that.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted May-25-2017 1:49 PM

@Brian51

Indeed i think RS now realizes this, for me it never had to be though, but it needed more clues... I will have to finish my Prometheus Re-write as i do have more Xeno links in my changes...

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

TheFred

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 1:57 PM

Forget about the Alient back-in.  It doesn't matter.  The series has effectively been rebooted and in my opinion, David is a better monster than the Xeno.

Membrane

Member

5

Posted May-25-2017 1:58 PM

@Tiwaz, I wish our decision to stop spending money on the franchise would actually alter how they proceed forward, but alas, I do not think we amount to enough. :-)

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted May-25-2017 2:25 PM

Membrane, next time when "Alien: (Fool's) Awakening" comes out we can go to a steakhouse knowing that we will spent our money on something that makes "sense". ;)

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

John D.

Member

2

Posted May-25-2017 2:51 PM

For anyone who is still wondering about the 'mural' on the wall in Prometheus, and the xeno-looking figure on it, and the jumbo-sized facehuggers you can see on it, etc. etc....

One of the production designers from Prometheus, Steve Messing, specifically states in an interview that the mural was put there as a tribute/homage to H.R. Giger. To quote:

"I also sculpted an altar area for this set that paid homage to Giger -it is a relief sculpture hanging from the wall and has the impression of an alien form with flowing structures surrounding it. There are a lot of easter eggs in this sculpture — including several hidden Giger motifs that were not used in the original film."

Seriously. That's all it was.

As far as the jumbo sized facehuggers - those are in fact early designs that Giger did himself for the original 1979 Alien (which were obviously not used). You can see them if you go back and watch the making-of documentary "The Beast Within" from the Alien quadrilogy boxed DVD set, or if you read the book "Giger's Alien" which came out around that time, too. 

There really was no other motivation behind it, besides giving a nod to the master (Giger). 

Blackwinter-witch

Member

58

Posted May-25-2017 3:16 PM

I'll stick to my interpretation of Canon, springboarding exclusively off ALIEN and PROMETHEUS.

David's storyline, I cannot accept it any longer, it does too much damage to what I love about this franchise and I'm fighting back with better ideas that follow the fit/feel/finish/tone of ALIEN better than where FOX plans on taking it.

Maybe my works can be seen as a 'preserve' of sorts, a place where the original mystique has a chance to stay alive and vital, alongside that of other writers who have the same feelings about where FOX is taking things as I do.

I am heartbroken by where FOX is taking things, I really am as they're killing off something unique and beloved, in favor of a Cylon/Skynet-esque rogue AI.
wow....rogue AI that seeks to eradicate Humanity...how original...

and if Origae turns out to be LV-426, then I just dunno.

 

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Chrono89

Member

0

Posted May-25-2017 3:35 PM

@BlackWinter-Witch I am still holding onto the small shred of hope that RS will do right by the original Aliens and the Fan base. Although, I see what has been done and can only shake my head and I hate to say it, but to me it seems RS is making a final push to direct and push out movies and at the same time, take the story the way that the complaints want him to go without regard for the grand scheme of the story and how it ties to his original work. That's just my thoughts, it saddens me to even think it but that's my worst case scenario thought if you know what I mean ?

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted May-25-2017 3:58 PM

Spoilers A:C Novelization

 

 

Excerpt:

“Quite something, that’s for sure,” Oram muttered. He continued to gaze at the egg-thing and its contents. As patently lifeless as it was, it still managed to send a quiver of fear through him.
“Oh, Captain.” David shook his head sadly. “Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if its appearance disturbs you, surely you can admire the skill that went into its design. In case you are wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers’ skill. And also, I suppose, of their hubris.

And there we have it! WTF?!

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-25-2017 4:11 PM

I will reserve my judgement on where Ridley is taking this series of prequels for this fall after I've read the Origins book.

I personally feel that people may be jumping the gun here on abandoning ship. But we'll see.

Blackwinter-witch

Member

58

Posted May-25-2017 4:19 PM

Chrono89

I know exactly what you mean and share your concerns about where this franchise is being taken.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Blackwinter-witch

Member

58

Posted May-25-2017 4:22 PM

QueenElizabethShaw

I won't give up on the ALIENverse, no matter what comes. But I am concerned, yet I will still choose to trust R. Scott. However, I have little trust of the FOX execs and their history of meddling and kibbitzing with this franchise.

They are the real problem.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-25-2017 4:29 PM

Tiwaz

I saw this posted about earlier, and began wondering if it is indicative of a disconnect between Alan Dean Foster's work and the actual canon. It would be nice if we could ask either Ridley or ADF what is going on. 

Though I'll tell you know, my best guess is that Ridley is doing one of two things:

1. He's doesn't care if what ADF writes conflicts with his canon because the book will obviously not be read by most viewers.

2. He is choosing his words carefully in interviews and podcasts, technically never saying David was the true originator, but styling his words to make it sound that way as a misdirect.

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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