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I can't believe we all missed it. (Spoilers)

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Myrddin365

May-23-2017 1:59 PM

The pictures of Shaw in David's lab chronicle how she got where she is. David didn't initiate it. He may have mercy killed her, and continued to experiment on the leftovers, but he did not cause her transformation.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

30 Responses to I can't believe we all missed it. (Spoilers)

colonialsoldier

May-23-2017 2:28 PM

Anything else to back up your theory?

Myrddin365

May-23-2017 2:36 PM

the pictures are pretty strong evidence... As is Shaws state in covenant that actually correlates to those pictures.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Phallic Jaw

May-23-2017 2:40 PM

I'm with ColonialSoldier.  Sorry but you are going to have to do better than that.  The drawings do not show anything of the sort.  They just show her with one f**ked up mouth and jaw which doesn't mean anything.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.

Myrddin365

May-23-2017 2:43 PM

You didn't look at all of them. All the pics Daniels thumbed through were of Shaw.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

QueenElizabethShaw

May-23-2017 2:49 PM

Myrddin365

I stepped out during this scene and missed it. Didn't realize there were multiple images of her. I'll watch for it next viewing.

Myrddin365

May-23-2017 2:58 PM

@Queen I didn't notice till my second viewing. Or it didn't click.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Ati

May-23-2017 2:59 PM

Myrddin365, yes, there were more images, one of them showed her without hair and there was a tube in her mouth (Giger style)...

I thought these drawings revealed different clones - but who knows? If they show clones, the dissected body can be a clone as well. So it is possible that Shaw had escaped and lives. That would be a huge twist, beyond doubt.

Myrddin365

May-23-2017 3:33 PM

If cloning gets involved it's anybody's guess how things shape up. My interpretation is that those pictures are David recording what happened to Elizabeth.

But the cloning idea isn't without merit given a bald Shaw in the drawings.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Raido

May-23-2017 3:55 PM

Also, one of the drawings depicts her missing her entire lower jaw, which is present in her dissected, plastinated body that we are shown.

Cloning is an interesting idea, and I wouldn't put it past David to be able to utilize Engineer technology to make clones of Shaw. It would be a marvelous plot twist in the next film, however I find it unlikely.

DirtWolf

May-23-2017 3:56 PM

Can you describe the pictures?

Ati

May-23-2017 3:59 PM

DirtWolf, no jaw drawing:

Ati

May-23-2017 4:07 PM

And there was a drawing showing a bald Shaw with a tube in her mouth, something similar to the combination of these two Giger pictures:

zeppo

May-23-2017 4:08 PM

i think the drawings just depict various stages of David experiments. Highly grotesque and certainly Giger Like. He needed Human DNA in order to produce the Alien, and in using Shaw he thinks he is putting her into a higher being, there for he is honoring her. 

Phallic Jaw

May-23-2017 4:29 PM

@Myrddin - fair enough I suppose, I have only seen the movie once.  Nevertheless, I remember seeing those other drawings now you guys have jogged my memory (the one with tube in her mouth, etc), but regardless of what f**ked up sketches were shown none of them convey "I wasn't killed by David"....so unless you elaborate I am not exactly sure where you are going with this, and I doubt I would feel any differently after a second viewing (and I won't be having a second viewing until the BD comes out at the very earliest so it's gonna be a while if you don't explain).

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.

Myrddin365

May-23-2017 4:45 PM

The drawing you see first is Shaw's face enveloped in a fleshy cone like structure like a flower growing. The rest progress from there. It doesn't give the impression that he began the process.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

dk

May-23-2017 4:57 PM

QueenElizabethShaw

I stepped out during this scene and missed it.

That is a big reason I wait for Blue rays.

 

Phallic Jaw

May-23-2017 6:38 PM

Hmmm.  OK thanks Myrddin.  Still not convinced but that's ok.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.

dmx1138

May-24-2017 1:39 AM

There are also drawings all over the place of David's "creations", including an exact image of a facehugger which Lupe is (ironically) standing right next to when the real facehugger attacks him. David presumably draws to flesh out his ideas, so what he drew of Shaw are different ideas he had for what he was going to do to her. Obviously, her jaw is not missing on the corpse we saw, so it was likely just an idea he had.

FUQUAN

May-24-2017 2:20 AM

Cant believe you missed your period

Myrddin365

May-24-2017 3:12 AM

@Fuquan now that is the scariest story I've heard in a while. Don't need that kind of stress in my life! Then again... I'm a male. Doesn't matter with arcturians, though.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Chris10an

May-24-2017 11:03 AM

Why would he take pictures, as you would assume he has a photographic memory? And what did he take the pictures with? no other than me question things like that?

Myrddin365

May-24-2017 11:06 AM

@chris he drew them. They aren't photographs

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Myrddin365

May-24-2017 11:12 AM

@Phallic Jaw it's all open to interpretation. There was just this AHA moment that my wife got too when she looked at the pictures. The drawings could just be David's fevered dreams, but that wouldn't fit with most of the other drawings. He also did "cut away" drawings on other things where he conceptualized the layers.

It's all inference and no hard confirmation, but I had to express it.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Membrane

May-24-2017 12:16 PM

Myriddin365, I wondered the same thing when I saw the pictures.  Are they just David's thoughts put on paper, or were they actual pictures of different experiments?  There was no picture of her with the open chest/abdominal cavity and "crown", yet that is how her physical body is shown.

Time will tell, hopefully.

Myrddin365

May-24-2017 12:23 PM

There was a picture of her being eviscerated almost methodically, but no picture of the final product, yes. The rest of David's drawings we're observation or explanation from what I saw. It would stand to reason that these were as well. 

It's some creepy shit either way.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Spearfish

May-24-2017 12:52 PM

Hmm - cloned Shaw?  i guess there is Canon for that as it was done to Ripley.  That might be a way to save this train wreck if she were to team up with Walter to set things straight. Might also explain the multiple egg pods.  But I doubt it will happen.

Tiwaz

May-24-2017 1:34 PM

Just seen it. Meine Fresse... Rarely watched a movie that was so hard to make sense of... Can't even say if I like it or not...

As for the pictures, maybe they're shown in the wrong order time-wise. The "missing jaw" was the lowest in the stack and therefore the oldest? It further looked more realistic. The left eye appears to be bruised. Might just be an impression though.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

MJD

May-25-2017 1:12 AM

no way in a life time that Shaw survived and when Daniels asks David he tells her that he did it and she is next.

 

This is part of science, just look at World Wars. Same principle and to achieve perfection you have to do grotesque things. I doubt a Human or Engineer could even go so far.

 

But David is clearly insane and you even see it when Walter and David have the talk about changing one tune in a symphony and the whole picture is distorted, meaning his creation.

Nycro

May-25-2017 2:44 AM

The first time I saw it, it didn't click for me either.  It hit me on my way home from the second viewing.

I also got the impression that he did the experimenting after her death.  I figured it was something probably more fleshed out in scenes that were cut.

And yes, he told Danny that he was going to do to her what he did to Shaw and the possibility exists that he didn't kill Shaw directly, but maybe his actions led to her demise.

There was a point where quite a few folks had the opinion that he actually loved Shaw, and were shot down/chastised because he couldn't feel emotions and that portion (him feeling emotions) was pretty much torn apart in this movie.

At this point with the plot holes in the prequels and retconning going on that we really can't rule anything out.

He thought humans were asshats, came to learn about the engineers and more than likely thought they were asshats as well.  He loved Shaw - this could all be a way of destroying the humans and giving Shaw the children she couldn't have.  Children that by proxy were also "his" so to speak.

Does anyone have concrete evidence of how/why the ship crashed after the bombing?  I know Ridley and Fass have said a lot in interviews that haven't 100% panned out/made sense, but it was noted in more than one interview, by both of them that Shaw and David lived there together for a time.  Hell, David could have bombed the hell out of the folks on that planetoid on their way out. 

There is seriously so much in the air and as directions have changed so much, it's really hard to pinpoint the details of what exactly is going on.  I am not going to rule anything out at this point and I am sure others feel the same way.

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