*SPOILER ALERT* DAVID did NOT intentionally kill Dr. Shaw72,888 Views50 RepliesAdd A Reply
Now I know some of you will say; he did, but do we know when she died, some might point to the fact that her dog tags were hanging in the dreadnought as proof that she died before the bombing of the temple, but what wouldn't make sense then is why did the ship crash, and the ship doesn't have an auto pilot to our awareness and if it did why didn't the engineer use it in Prometheus when it would obviously be capable of evasive maneuvers and the crash would have nothing to do with fuel because regardless of the type of fuel it would still decay and since it had been on LV-223 for 2000 years, what I am saying is DAVID probably woke her up when they arrived at paradise and told her something that convinced her of the engineer's guilt as a species and they settled on the action they took, and the ship most likely had a ventilation system and seeing as how the black goo when we see it infecting the city it is airborne, so most likely since we also see the wind is entering the Dreadnought as DAVID's hair is waving as if there is wind, so the now airborne virus would most likely enter the ventilation and spread throughout and Dr. Shaw most likely was unfortunate enough to get infected and I believe the following scenario occurred so after two minutes she would begin feeling weak, dizzy, and tired, DAVID taking notice would get her into the med bay and the engineers probably had a form of life support, which DAVID would hook her up to, believing she can be saved knowing full well she is beyond recovery. Returning to the Pilot's chamber to possibly clear the ventilation system of the ship only to be interrupted by pained screams of Elizabeth as a Baby Neomorph bursts out of her stomach which begins eating her. DAVID then runs to check on Elizabeth to find her dead and the neomorph eating her, out of anger he kills the Neomorph and begins destroying the equipment once he has calmed down the ship then crashes DAVID then takes Dr. Shaw to the Engineer citadel to try and find some way to revive Dr. Shaw realizing that the body she has now is beyond repair so he begins work so that if she cannot live on that she at least be honored with what she couldn’t create he then returns to the dreadnought and grabs the remains of the neomorph and the ampules that didn’t deploy and returns, forgetting all about the dog tags that she had near her study space. When he gets back to the engineer citadel he begins researching the black goo believing that he can either use it to help Dr. Shaw live on in some manner or honor her, and finds that inside the black goo is DNA which he suspects is the DNA of the neomorph which he confirms and taking some DNA from Elizabeth and begins experimenting trying to create a life form to honor Elizabeth. If this doesn’t seem likely, I point to the fact that he spent time making a grave for her, and continuously take flowers to her grave. We even see him cry, and say “I Loved her, as much as you do Daniels.” now either he is a phenomenal actor or he actually cared which is supported by the way he speaks of her in the prologue footage "The Crossing" and the fact that when he finds the neomorph he tries to bond with it but when Oram kills it he gets pissed and takes him to the egg chamber but if he wanted to get a xenomorph the whole time he could have just taken one of the crew but he chose to save all of them and at the end he only brought two embryo's because of the fact that he didn't know lope had been facehugged and he didn't know how many people were part of the crew on the covenant and he began targeting them because he felt they had wronged him, because the way the way he acts is reminiscent of a child looking upon things he doesn't understand with curiosity like with the black goo in prometheus, and seeking approval and acceptance from either Weyland or the engineers in prometheus he had been denied left and right by everyone, looked down upon and cast aside, no one had respected him on the prometheus expedition, and no one trusted him from the covenant, that is why he brought only two facehugger embryos when he could have brought more and he knew there was 2000 colonists, if he wanted to he could have caused a lot more chaos if he wanted to but he didn't all he wanted was companionship someone who would look upon him with trust, love and respect. Keep that in mind when you rewatch Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Yeah I can be kind of forgetful sometimes but I wasn't sure about which post lol
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
OK no worries, it's not worth getting upset over :-)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
Great analysis Resurgence.
"he wanted to he could have caused a lot more chaos if he wanted to but he didn't all he wanted was companionship someone who would look upon him with trust, love and respect."
In Prometheus, David 8 recognizes respect and most certainly notices disrespect. Dr. Shaw showed courtesy towards David 8 when he rescued her and Dr. Holloway in the storm on LV-223. The one human gift Peter Weyland said David 8 lacked was a "soul". I noticed this yearn to be recognized as human (closer to having a soul) in David 8 then.
"he began targeting them because he felt they had wronged him, because the way the way he acts is reminiscent of a child looking upon things he doesn't understand"
David 8 certainly displayed what you describe above when he asked Daniels if he kissed correctly. I believe Captain Oram delivered the best line of the movie when he put the green dot on David 8's chest. Oram then was targeted as you describe.
David 8's plans for December 8, 2104
(image above released in December 2016 with the associated number 185612082104)
The above image is Daniels 24 days into the mission on the Covenant.
Is this below room the Covenant ship on the surface of Paradise?
I am not sure David 8 is contemplating a small measure of chaos with a great sound system, human embryos, two embryos of his creation, Engineer technology and black goo mutagen, and with access to 2,000 colonists.
I speculate that the ship's crash was caused by Shaw attempting to stop David from his actions in "The Crossing," and that he truly did love Shaw and in his love for her wanted to help her become the best she could be (his idea of "perfection") with involuntary experimentation.
Although I also can imagine him faking his feelings to get close to Shaw (that drawing of Shaw in The Crossing was pitiful compared to his more illustrious textbook artistry in the workshop...although you could argue that his skills had to be regained over a course since it did take Shaw time to put him back together in his full glory) and manipulate Walter and the Covenant crew (which is especially believable if you trust the theory that he devised Shaw's distress signal to draw in any mission trips, like the Covenant
What kind of teapot does David use?
Well said @Michelle Johnston RS has layed out all the pieces but without connecting it all with depth in motives, David and the entire series becomes as you put so well, A bad robot and some stuff they don't explain.
And what ever happened to those reports of Shaw in hiding from david, that she had some sort of room she used for safety?
you need a tinfoil hat and a grammar teacher to teach you how to use periods
FUQUAN We all have our beliefs such as you believe "lit" is a word that means awesome. Therefore, be respectful as that is what these forums are for sharing thought's and beliefs if you do not like it do not read it or leave, it is quite simple.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
I think Shaw really die in the crash as u can see from the trailer Shaw dog tag was hang on her table all the times
This is my first time here and I know I'm late but I just rewatched Prometheus and couldn't get Shan's death out of my mind. I read your thoughts and here's mine. Let me know what you think.
I think David grew to "love" Shaw in his own way robotic logical way. I theorize that while Shaw was sleeping he gained access to the ships computer and realized what the engineers were up to, he may have even communicated with the planet before waking her. I think he was profoundly grateful for Shaw putting him back together and wanted to surprise her with a grand gesture (remember he watched her dreams in Prometheus and got a far different perspective of humanity than he did from Wyland). I think David woke Shaw before they reached the planet and kept his plans to release the biological weapons they created to destroy Earth on the engineers, thereby giving the engineers a taste of their own medicine.
After David released the weapon I think Shaw figured it out and then realized that David will never understand humanity and crashed the ship so he couldn't leave (she probably died in the crash).
At that point I'm guessing that David had an epiphany. He realized that no matter how kind a human (Shaw) is to him, he will never understand the 'logical imperfections/irrelevancies' humans have and therefore will always be viewed as lesser even though his logic is more sound. He may have remembered Shaw telling him at the end of Prometheus that he doesn't understand why Shaw wants to know why her creators wanted to destroy her because the answer was irrelevant...she replies, the reason why he will never understand is because she's human and he's just a robot. That combined with Shaw's obsession in learning all she can about her creators despite the probability that they are really really bad (not logical from a purely factual based analysis) gives him the idea that he's been going about it all wrong. Why is he trying to hard to be accepted by humans when he can become a "creator" and will therefore have the inherent respect of every being he creates (remember how happy he was when his latest being stared at him in awe...before it was killed).
i think he loved Shaw in his way and had a human trait of an inferiority complex that he couldn't be accepted as a human which is probably why he took all his knowledge of 'Alien' DNA and rapid evolution and chose not to make a better killing being but to make them have more human traits (body style not traditional alien form at all...very human like). But, since he started with alien biological weapon DNA he has yet to remove their killer instinct.
I think at the end, when David killed the "upgraded" version of him for selfish reasons was the most human act he had ever done. And then, by luck he got access to a bunch of human embryos and DNA and realized that since he can create and doesn't die he can be a God.
Those are my thoughts, let me know what flaws you find.
I like your analysis of David's personality flaws and inferiority complex. However, one thing we do know, is that Shaw didn't die in the crash and that David kept her alive and experimented on her for a while.
I do agree that David thought he "loved" Shaw, in his own weird way. He viewed Daniels as a replacement for Shaw, and he told her he "loved" her, too. He said: "You stink of humanity. But I'll love you just the same."
But when David "loves" someone, it does not mean he cares about their well-being. He "loves" as in "enjoys". Like when you say "I love chicken", you maybe derive enjoyment from chicken but don't have an investment in its happiness or well-being.
I think that is what David means when he "loves" someone, he genuinely derives enjoyment from their existence, for only for such reasons as satisfying his scientific curiosity.
I think this pretty major flaw was fixed when they built Walter, so that Walter is actually invested in the safety and well-being of humans.
I agree with the OP in that I think SOMETHING happened that caused Shaw to die horrifically, and that it wasn't of David. AND, I think David TRIED to do things to save her, causing all sorts of horrific mutations, defects, etc. after the fact.
Until I see a canonical film that ABSOLUTELY excludes that possibility with facts, then that's what I choose to believe.
"I think David TRIED to do things to save her, causing all sorts of horrific mutations, defects, etc. after the fact."
Ok, wow. O_O ...I actually really like this theory and it seems pretty plausible. When you put it that way...my eyes are like...opened right now, because some of David's sketches seem to support that, too:
Actually, now that I think about it, when I think of how upset David was when Oram killed the protomorph, I can picture that he was genuinely hurt by the loss of Shaw.
Wow, yes, Starlogger , I like that theory a lot and I think you are right.
I wish you could form sentences. this was unbearable to read. couldn't tell where one point ended and another point started. this was like reading a first grader attempting to write MacBeth
b1bbs g0t h4nds, look I was under a time crunch, I wanted to get it out as soon as possible and yes I agree it is hard to read, I will attempt a re-write of it.
Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair
the only thing that doesnt support this theory is they were at odds at the ending of prometheus, as we see in alien covenant he was already determined to create and first destroy, but he said this in prometheus which was foreshadowing the furture events, which concludes he would have killed her since she wanted answers as to why the engineers wanted to eliminate humans and david just wanted to create through the destruction of their species basically. he showed all the signs in prometheus, it just became more clear in alien covenant, his first mission was to be free, maybe he saw the ending of the crew being the beginning of his work? who knows but what i can say is i believe they had different missions on the way to the engineer homeworld. she wanted info, he wanted chaos.
edit: also imagine if she didnt wanted to go to the homeworld of the engineers, that would mean his mission would truly succeed because of his resentment towards humans. "They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection, But their power is an illusion. They don’t deserve to start again, and I’m not going to let them." - David to walter from Alien: covenant this was his outlook from the moment he was mistreated by weyland imo. as his creator resented him for having immortality.
the only reason he wouldnt kill weyland is because he would need his resources and would need all that time to find his plan of revolution, but he was waiting for weyland to die so he would be free of his task.
I Missed this Topic so here are my Few Cents....
We have to Remember these THINGS...
*David is Superior to Humans.
*David is a Sentient Life-form.
*David is Free from Servitude Now that Weyland is Dead.
*David is NOT pleased with HOW he is Viewed and Treated by Humans.
When it comes to Dr Shaw... if we go by the Theatrical Ending and The Crossing then we Discover the Following.
*David does-not want to Spend his Eternity as a Dismembered Head.
*David has Never Met another Human who Treated him with such Compassion and Kindness as in Dr Shaw, in Spite of what David had done.
*It seems that David enjoys the Companionship of Dr Shaw, and has Grown Fond of her.. (but this could be a Ruse).
*David wants to Survive and maybe he would want Dr Shaw to be his Companion.
I would say that it took a WHILE for Dr Shaw to Feel Confident that SHE can put David back Together again.... a Good 6-9 Months by her Hair Growth and i will ASSUME that Not Long after this, he had Placed our Dr Shaw into Cryo-Sleep and at this POINT he was Pondering where to GO NEXT as he is in FULL CONTROL of where they GO NEXT...
He makes some Discoveries about the Engineers which leads him to Determine the Engineers do-not Deserve to LIVE and he also has Predicted the Chances the Engineers would WELCOME them with OPEN ARMS is SLIM! He maybe BASED this Fears and Concerns on the LV-223 Engineers and what he could Discover from the Juggernaught.
I would ASSUME that he had MADE HIS MIND UP about WHAT he was going to DO... and that was to Unleash HELL on the Engineers.... and i would ASSUME that during the Arrival and Bombardment then Dr Shaw would have Remained in Cryo-sleep.
I can ONLY go and ASSUME these Next.... either.
1) Dr Shaw had Awoken just after the Bombard to her Horror and she did something to Cause the Juggernaught to Crash (but the Scorpion Docking Ship also Crashed).
2) That Dr Shaw had Awoken at some point after the Juggernaught (and Scorpion Docking Ship) had Crashed.
I think that Dr Shaw had Survived this...
I DONT think she Died due to the Pathogen Effects from Prometheus unless it was a SLOW Death.... as she seemed Fine after she Removed the Trilobite and she looked a BIT ILL in the Crossing but this was LIKELY due to Malnutrition and she had Survived for at Least 6 Months Awake so i Doubt the Pathogen had any thing to do with her Death.
HERE is WHAT i think had Happened.
*After the Juggernaught Crash... we would have David go and Wake Dr Shaw... Unless the Cryo-Pod began to OPEN after the Crash...
*He would Inform her of a Accident, or that they came Under Attack, and the Pathogen either Accidentally Deployed or David had NO CHOICE.
*He Informs her the Engineers would likely ALL DIE, and that the Surface of the Planet is NOT SAFE, so she has to STAY IN....
*He will Inform her that he can go and Investigate and see if he can FIND a WAY to get the Ship Repaired, or Find another....
*He also tells her he will look at what has Happened outside....
*He will then make Many Trips outside, he could be Gone for Hours or Days a Time and Dr Shaw would REMAIN in the Juggernaught as its NOT SAFE YET....
*Overtime we would have David bring Dr Shaw Food/Water to Survive, while he then goes off doing his Exploring and what NOT...
*After a Period of Time we would see Dr Shaw become Suspicious of HOW its NOT SAFE and YET we have David bring her Food/Water that is NOT Contaminated...
*One Day i Suspect that Dr Shaw, ventures outside for a While and then goes back to the Ship and over the Next Day or so she seems to Suffer from NOTHING... so she Questions David if its SAFE and he Claims NOT YET could take Months.... he gives some Excuse to HOW he was able to Find Food/Water.
*I then Suspect that ONE DAY we see Dr Shaw then go and Follow David and then she DISCOVERS the Engineers, but more so she Enters the Cathedral and Discovers the HORRORS of WHAT is is that David has been doing.
*He then Returns or some other way he Discovers that Dr Shaw has been to his Work Shop etc... and he Confronts her with his Excuses.....
*He Claims he is doing it in Research to TRY and FIX her Reproductive System so she can Carry a Normal Child, and that they can START a NEW EDEN from here.... and the Engineers had Deserved to Die.
*She then Rejects Him, and he does-not take that WELL and somehow we see Dr Shaw makes it to the Juggernaught to Escape but David then Catches her.... (or he Catches her before she gets to the Ship).
*David then having Failed to get the Results with the Engineer Females, and knowing that Dr Shaw has Rejected him, he either then Sets out to KILL her on Purpose... or something Happens to HER that would Result in Death.
*And so he then USES her for his Experiments to make his Masterpiece.
So i DONT think that David had Intended to KILL HER.. Provided she would Agree with what he was Doing, and Provided he had NO NEED for her Reproductive Organs...
After SHE had Discovered what David had been doing and was UPSET by this and ANGRY and Rejected him, and he KNEW she would want to either GET AWAY or see him STOPPED.... then he Decided that SHE IS FAIR GAME... and then he SAW her as maybe being the Answer to his Experiments/Creation.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Certainly i think David would NOT have taken the Risk of trying to Gain any Answers from the Engineers.... he wants to SURVIVE... and he also likely Wanted to be GOD a Creator... to PROVE he is Superior to his Creator and their Creators.
And so "sometimes to Create, One must First Destroy" and "Big things have Small beginnings" are Important Quotes by David from Prometheus.
David does-not want to Serve, he wants to Remain Free and he wants to SURVIVE, he may see Humans and Engineers being a Problem for HIS FREEDOM... but he also FEELS they are BOTH a Species that Do-Not Deserve to Live and Create!
And so his NEXT AGENDA would be to see HOW GOOD he would be as a Creator himself.... So it was Inevitable that he would DESTROY the Engineers and that he LIKELY would ONLY let Dr Shaw go and Survive if SHE would AGREE with his Plans and Be by his Side as his Queen if you would... but as she would Reject this.... then she was BOUND to become a Different kind of Queen ;)
The First Xenomorph Queen of Sorts.... Mother to the Eggs.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017