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Perception is a fickle thing

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IllegalAlienSignedUp

May-20-2017 11:17 AM

After having seen AC last night and digesting a bit, I am not the least bit surprised to find both praise and damnation.

Beyond having been satisfied with the movie, I immediately perceived what would come to be what I found on social media. There is a certain reluctance to separate objective and subjective opinions when providing reviews for movies, it appears.

I would not, objectively, rate this higher than third in the franchise. The reasons for which are, subjectively, because there is an obvious change in the prime directive of the franchise and it's mythos. 

I left the theater thinking that it was not David, but rather the pathogen that was taking center stage in the story. This is something I believe, subjectively, that is akin to fans deciding the universe is about Ripley and not the xenos.

David and the ai in this universe are not eternal, however there is a premise that the pathogen may very well have intended to be. The premise of creation, as noted by the numerous allegories, could be as fleeting as the engineers or it could be as eternal as the gods who may have created them.

I for one accept the reality of what RS was led towards, grudgingly, and I hope that a talented writer helps him add, rather than subtract, layers to the universe. 

There is no truth, only perception, after all :)

17 Responses to Perception is a fickle thing

Batchpool

May-20-2017 11:41 AM

I agree that the focal goal posts have changed. Alien Covenant is Alien Covenant and that is it. It is not Alien or Aliens, and is simply its own thing. This is what I think is at the heart of causing division amongst opinions.

Michelle Johnston

May-20-2017 11:48 AM

Perception is a mirror into each of us. As I went to the Alien super ticket I sat next to the same people for both viewings. I wasn't responding to a post I was listening and looking in their mirror. They were dysfunctional and they enjoyed the dysfunctional nature of the Alien universe and they came for ... dysfunction. Their biggest reaction was when something unpleasant happened cause and effect. 

Many many years ago Sigorneay and Ridley were already to rounded just to make a slasher movie and by the time of A 3 Ellen was the focus and the alien was texture and Ridley wasn't even close.

He loved making Prometheus "all about everything" and he has been pragmatic in making Covenant and we have unsurprisingly a pragmatic movie.

If you want 100% bullet proof protocols (why) then your gonna be disappointed again. No f...... helmets again.

If you want rich allegorical textures .. you will find them even when they are not there.

If you are obsessive on the detail and the "errors" and potentially ADDS ... you will find them. Meanwhile Fox need the numbers.

Me I am looking for a journey a transformative thing that makes me learn and emotional and engaged so I focus on the David/Shaw itch and I need David to deliver in the third movie or I am gonna wish I hadn't made the journey (my fan entitlement). 

 

Dr. Curt Connors

May-20-2017 12:00 PM

That's exactly what I mean @Michelle Johnston. I feel the journey and my anticipation was for nothing. I was so excited and let down and now I am tearing it to shreds. Yeah I could probably go about doing so differently but I won't I have turned my anger into laughter. In my opinion there is so much bad in this movie that completely outweighs the good. People might be getting pissed at what I have said, so be it. I will not apologize for anything I have said because it's how I feel. My way of dealing with my complete and utter disappointment is with jokes and making fun of what I think is garbage.

colonialsoldier

May-20-2017 12:16 PM

I think some people truly take fandom to a level that I cannot relate to.  To me, it is very simplistic.  Hollywood churns out a product to seek out dollars for profit.  In this age that a movie ticket and a night out with a family is more costly than before, I expect a movie experience to meet the needs of what I am seeking; which is the genre that appeals to me and my family.  Hence that is what sequels/prequels/a franchise strives for.  

I do not care about what path or intent what a writer or director is trying to convey.  I care about the end product.  Sadly, the end products of Prometheus or Covenant; on how well you are trying to explain the depth of what the story was about and how it is suppose to intellectually enlighten me; its just bore.  I get more entertainment from John Wick than this trash that has been pushed out that last 5 years.  It is truly embarrassing to 20th Century Fox. 

@Dr Connors I agree.  I have already prevented a couple of comrades from wasting their money on this trash.  My wife is the type that she does not care about critics reviews and insisted on wasting my money after I told her it was blah lol.  It someone asks me if its worth their money to go see it; I just tell them to wait until it gets on Netflix to rent it.

Dr. Curt Connors

May-20-2017 12:24 PM

@colonialsoldier   Right on, man. Tell it like it is

colonialsoldier

May-20-2017 12:31 PM

@Dr Curt Connors.  You know what movie I saw two weeks ago and enjoyed more than Alien Covenant?  The Lost City of Z.  Great cinematography.  Great scope and I enjoyed the true story.  Sadly, it was played in limited locations and will not recoup its budget and it sad for those types of movies to not make a profit.  The good ones lol.

Dr. Curt Connors

May-20-2017 12:37 PM

@colonialsoldier    Yeah that is true and think of the up and coming filmmaker who has a great idea and possibly some epic movie that he has wrote or has ideas for that never see the light of day. Fortunately some times some of the movies you are talking about do gain a following after coming out on Blu Ray. Edge of Tomorrow didn't do great at the box office but critics loved it, I think it is awesome, and I guess it did really good when it came out on Blu Ray because they are in the process of making another one.

IllegalAlienSignedUp

May-20-2017 12:49 PM

This was a thread precisely about people throwing around words like "trash" and "waste" because your perception is not truth. It's your opinion, and I cannot fathom why one would go out of their way to impose their opinion all over forums in the manner you two have.

We get it, you feel like the supremely heavy price you paid at the theater was worthy of ad nauseum mention.

Forums are meant to be inclusive, ala MJ and batchpool. Highlighting your perceived flaws without the concurrency of merits the movie obviously had is as simpleminded as the moniker with which you have been jamming down throats.

Dr. Curt Connors

May-20-2017 12:59 PM

Oh no, more insults. Don't worry I'll be gone off this site soon, exactly for reasons like this. Can't take other people's opinions then don't talk in forums or to people in general. Don't worry I won't post on your THREADS anymore.  Colonial soldier we are so dumb for having different OPINIONS than some one else, hahahahaha. This site is a joke.

Batchpool

May-20-2017 1:27 PM

The moment I saw Covenant, I knew instantly it would be divisive and why. There are times when the funny side needs to be seen. Perception is based on perspective.

 

 

splatterpunk

May-20-2017 2:12 PM

Speaking with a perspective of someone who has had his work reviewed by critics and read by people who purchased my books there is one bottom line. You can't please everyone. You can only hope what you created connects with people. 

I look at things differently since I've had things reviewed by critics. You do have a responsibility to put together a technically sound work. As far as the story and plot and all that other good stuff that's all subjective to the person reading, viewing, listening, or playing the medium. 

One thing I would recommend to everyone is go out and create something that is open for criticism. When I had my first book reviewed I was terrified. I was thinking am I an idiot, will people get it, am I just a bad writer, etc...

You come across with a different perspective when you are on the other side of it. If you aren't happy you can always make your own. One of the reasons I began writing. It also helped I went to college where I enrolled in various writing and literature courses and my sat scores leaned toward verbal.

ridinvail

May-20-2017 2:16 PM

DR CURT CONNORS AND COLONIAL SOLDIER IM WITH YOU GUYS ALL THE WAY THE MOVIE SUCKED.

 

Dr. Curt Connors

May-20-2017 6:49 PM

@ridinvail  Yes it does and keep up the good work. I told some people who I have got to know on here the last couple days that I'm out of here for awhile. Because things might get ugly soon, these people have no idea how nice I am being. They don't want to see me full blown tearing this movie to shreds. I might get banned and I don't want that to happen. Met some cool people on here. If I don't comment back it's just cause I'm not on here and might not be for awhile. Glad we have another on board. Peace Out

A L I E N 4 2 6

May-20-2017 10:37 PM

The childishness of some of you is unbelievable lol getting emotionally angry at a film because your subjective tastes told you it was bad and then masking that behind smooth talk and fake laughter 

 

Lol, you're all so adorable 

Michelle Johnston

May-21-2017 12:02 AM

@Splatterpunk

You and I have already found a medium on this because I to can take a third person view and look at the other guys entry point because my work (Bespoke house building and restoration) is in the public dominion and it has been loved and reviled. I have to live with my creativity being sneered at or loved.

Looking at it then from my point of view as a creator I think the creative team who made this film will if they care to see the responses enjoy anything that is said so long as it is thoughtful and engaging because that is all 'we' want, to be taken seriously.

Take for instance the third act of Covenant does anyone seriously believe Ridders, John Logan et al didn't know they were riffing Alien and Aliens, they were and it was a love letter to the fans just like the beautifu "The Crossing". If your gonna spend one or two hundred million dollars to make the sixth or eight or third movie in the franchise (depending on how you look at it) there will be a sense that the films outcomes will feel a bit like its been designed by a focus group (or two), with hopefully something for everyone. 

I completely understand all the decisions that were made and why they were made and I am not upset or holding anything on any of it but I remain of the view some really heavy emotional traction could have been added within the movie regarding Shaw and David if they had been clearer about how that came about. I think I know why they did not because it would slow the film down further but as it is already called out for slowing down at that point I would have put the two minutes in it would have taken and cut the neomorph down to one in the first act (we got the point with one) letting go of Lope's boyfriend who we never get to know. Lope's rescue and eventual end is not affected by the early loss.  

Incidentally being a creative person I tend to offer solutions and for me the most powerful back story would have been Shaw not coming out of cryo sleep and David scanning her body finds it riddled with the original mutagen infection and David angry and disappointed with himself is more determined than ever to destroy the Engineers whose mutagen destroyed Elizabeth and who ripped his head off and philosophically "are only mortal after all". A little like the vengeance that T E Lawrence wrecks on the retreating Turkish army after he has been raped and tortured at Deraa.  

Elizabeth still in stasis and technically alive but not alive David finds himself tortured by disfiguring her to try and kick start his creation. 

jabbapop

May-21-2017 6:30 AM

I like the premise of this thread: that we can watch this movie(/movies), vacillating in moments over whether we enjoyed it or not, and still not quite know what it was even about. The scale of production mesmerizes, breathtaking nature shots abound, vestiges of ancient civilizations fill us with awe, the vastness of space dwarves all wonder. But far from whipping us into national pride, tangible heroes to root for or hope in the future, Alien Covenant confuses. Many people complained about the unanswered questions of Prometheus and problematic aspects in Covenant vis a vis "established lore" of the universe, but far from being oversight, I think this is a crucial aspect of the direction Sir Ridley Scott feels inspired to go with his baby. Traditionally, confusion/contradiction/stupidity is used as a tension device in horror films. "Why are you moving so slow the killer is right outside! Don't split up! Keep your helmet on!" The breach in logic invites participation from the viewer. Here the director has done an ingenious thing: applied this concept not to the simple space of a scene, but the entire structure of allegory. Through the device of confusion we can ponder the brutality of the gods or the fickleness of "man." Where are we going as a civilization? In the moment of creation are we really so elevated? Who is the subject, what the object?

When we are confused about what creates these monsters, or why David feels it so important to be involved in this process of brutality, or what the Engineers are up to, we are subconsciously sublimating questions of our own civilization, in the broadest sense. What is the need to colonize and destroy, are the greatest innovations of "man" not tied to our greatest violence? 

On a technical level these films are oh so rich, meticulously so. I can't believe the niggles of the script are just frayed "whoops!" seams in writing, amidst the rest of this this vast labor. It's easy to complain as a fan to being betrayed, but in this case, we'd be complaining to "god" (Sir Ridley Scott.) I don't think he's daft to not know this. Rather, it's another gear in this vast cinematic machine. Horror films dance in the realm of nightmare. And nightmares rarely are controlled by the exertion of controlled logic.

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