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Is the Covenant mission related to the ancient attack on LV-223?

Is the Covenant mission related to the ancient attack on LV-223?

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Ingeniero

May-04-2017 3:29 PM

Covenant: The term "covenant" refers commonly to an agreement, a contract, an understanding, and/or a promise.

The Covenant mission consists of 2,000 colonists aboard what is described as humanity's furthest attempt to colonize a planet within our galaxy.

Video messages to family back home talk of how proud the Covenant crew is to begin something of such significance even with the spectacular success humanity has had so far at this time in planet colonization. 

Sergent Lope says "a six person squad might not be sufficient for a mission with so many variables" in his last status report before going into hypersleep.

The skeleton crew responsible for the 2,000 colonists going the furthest humanity has ever travelled to was not lost on Sergent Lope. He seems to have been set up for failure should any "variables" be outside of plan.

Was the Covenant mission an offering or the settlement of an agreement made 2,000 years earlier during the time when LV-223 was attacked?

QueenElizabethShaw proposed that there was depth to the meaning of "Covenant" here. I agree.

Multiple Walters

The origin of the name Walter is a Germanic name meaning "ruler of the army", composed of the elements wald "rule" and hari "army". 

waftlord made an unbelievably excellent point in regards to the amount of androids to support thousands of colonists.

Why wouldn't there be hundreds (or more) of Walters to support building the new world?

Androids build and repair androids.

Would the Covenant mission of thousands of colonists have a single product from the "We are Walter" campaign? I doubt it.

In summary, the Covenant mission consists of the best technology collected to start humanity on a new planet, 2,000 frozen colonists (hosts), potentially hundreds of androids, and countless resources outside of this protected by a security squad of six persons. 

Did David 8 Prepare a Place for an Event?

A bowl of judgement is poured above. The planet names of LV-223 and LV-426 may have deeper meaning as well in regards to this concept. 

jdvyne made this amazing connection below in regards to LV-223 and LV-426.

Levicitcus 4:26 (LV-426):
He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the leader's sin, and he will be forgiven.

Leviticus 2:23 (LV-223):
Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD.

Is David 8 releasing what is depicted in the mural on LV-223 above in the below image in the place he prepared on Paradise?

Is the Covenant mission fulfilling a promise made long ago when someone interceded on behalf of humanity on Earth in stopping the attack plans of the Engineers on LV-223 made known by David 8 in Prometheus?

21 Responses to Is the Covenant mission related to the ancient attack on LV-223?

Blackwinter-witch

May-04-2017 3:56 PM

Hmmm....some really deep points to ponder. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some aspects of what you posted that are involved in R. Scotts ongoing works in the ALIENVERSE.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

A L I E N 4 2 6

May-04-2017 5:08 PM

Oh gosh....

have we reached the over analysis phase of hype??? Gah I hate this. I'm sorry but it's just too much 

Blackwinter-witch

May-04-2017 5:18 PM

A L I E N 4 2 6

I think it's just a theory about R. Scott's materials that inspired  some aspects of the story.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

dk

May-04-2017 5:23 PM

I think I would have to watch AC coupled with posts on the forum to figure out between whom or what the real covenant is. It could be good/evil, human/machine etc...

Regular Parrot

May-04-2017 6:08 PM

A covenant in biblical times was a really big thing.  I recall the Father at my local church telling me about the price of breaking a covenant.  The story was that if you broke a covenant, the injured party would cut the covenant breaker in half.  CUT IN HALF.

Hello.

There is definitely a reason to this name being made.  I wonder does David and Walter make a promise/covenant/deal to each each other??

Today I have been dedicated to post on as many topics as possible until I pass out from drinking too many beers. 

BigDave

May-04-2017 6:37 PM

I am not 100% sure what the OT is trying to say...

If its that the Outbreak 2000 years ago was prevented by making a Covenant that in part of that deal would require the 2000 Colonists in AC... while i respect a theory i cant see this at all sorry..

But the Term Covenant is indeed very applicable throughout Mankinds History with God, and could connect to the Franchise.

The Covenant could have Multiple Meanings... many as far as the context of the movie goes.  More so that its hard to wonder which ones.

If we look at the movie it revolves around a few elements however.

*Aftermath of when David and Shaw left LV-223 a Covenant between them would have been made as far as David being put back together in return for David taking Shaw to get her answers.

*A Covenant between the ruling parties on Paradise, which can be many things but certainly we have to ask WHY they never came back. Why they never tried to finish us off (depends if they knew of the intention of the LV-223 Engineers).

Trying to think of more but brains gone bit blank at moment... so if i remember i will post lol

There is a lot of potential for Covenants to had formed and been broken, a lot could depend on is this Paradise, did David go anywhere else first?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

May-04-2017 6:44 PM

In regards to multiple Walter androids on the Covenant mission above, I suspect all of these variations of Walter will be present on the Covenant ship in great numbers and the capability to build more.

The programmer version of Walter and the trainer both look to be wearing Covenant logos.

BigDave

May-04-2017 6:44 PM

As far as David Preparations...

A lot depends on what we are shown.. we dont know if he left a Message for the Company and gave details of where he was heading... he may or may not have.

Do we assume he conducted these experiments and intended them for Mankind, if so in what way for our Destruction or for the company we cant be sure... and would he create these on the assumption eventually someone will arrive.. or does he have more confidence they will because of information he has passed on prior to arriving?

Did David make these plans after he realized he was stranded or did he plan to experiment regardless of if he was stranded or not, did he have contingency plans? Or did he think he would be able to do what ever he intended and then take the Juggernaught back to Earth.

Hopefully his Agenda will be uncovered over the next 2 movies.

Walter does mean ruler of a Army, we know there would be a Army of Walters, but there was also Many Many Davids, who knows if the Walter Origins as far as Ruler of a Army passed their minds when working out what to Call Walter.

David refers to King and also beloved, i definitely can see David 8 seeing himself as some kind of King, and we cant rule out Walter wanting to be Ruler of a New Army.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-04-2017 6:46 PM

The Leviticus Quotes are interesting and could connect, certainly with LV-223 but it could be coinsidence with LV-426 as i dont think they was thinking of Leviticus when they Made Alien.

But indeed we could see how they could indeed fit

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

May-04-2017 6:49 PM

BigDave, this is the main idea of this topic from your comment above.

"If its that the Outbreak 2000 years ago was prevented by making a Covenant that in part of that deal would require the 2000 Colonists in AC... while i respect a theory i cant see this at all sorry.."

Regarding the "Outbreak" I believe that the Engineers on LV-223 were "attacked" by someone else.

You're right. Not much concrete evidence to argue at all but the Covenant mission looks like an "offering" to me. 

I went on to suspect that there is a good sized population of "We are Walter" along with the 2,000 colonists relatively unprotected by a human security force. 

HappyXeno

May-04-2017 6:56 PM

Incredible connection originally by @jdvyne. Amazed no one had thought of that sooner. 

 

What's the story, MUTHUR?

Ingeniero

May-04-2017 7:04 PM

Regular Parrot, excellent point in regards to breaking a covenant.

Please continue to post as much as possible before you pass out. 

Ingeniero

May-04-2017 7:08 PM

You do have a point A L I E N 4 2 6 but I hadn't attempted to decipher the "Covenant" name yet.

I have written at length in regards to android hair but had not covered the Covenant mission name. I do believe that the resources of the Covenant mission may be directly related to LV-426....

Inquisitor Fifield

May-04-2017 8:47 PM

A mind of 1 might not be sufficient for an obsession with so many variables

Ingeniero

May-04-2017 9:26 PM

HappyXeno, agreed. I do believe the LV-223 and LV-426 connection from jdvyne was amazing.

Again from above,

Levicitcus 4:26 (LV-426):
He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the leader's sin, and he will be forgiven.

Here are enhanced images from Alien from a deleted scene that showed the Engineer transmission from LV-426 being listened to.

Ripley was able to make sense of the Engineer transmission after Ash stalled on the translation.

"Ash, that transmission...Mother's deciphered part of it. It doesn't look like an S.O.S."

Ash apparently didn't want to delay the human crew members from harvesting (by all means) the lifeform(s) to collect under Special Order 937 on LV-426 from the Engineer ship. 

Investigating the origin of the signal brought the Nostromo crew out of hypersleep to the Engineer ship on LV-426 and they later came across a sea of eggs that produced biomechanical xenomorphs.

I went all over the place in the opening of the topic but to summarize the relationship to LV-426:

The Covenant mission was sent to Paradise (woken up by A.I.) with David 8 there standing with open arms and biological gifts he developed with Engineer technology. 

During this visit to Paradise by the Covenant crew, David 8 introduces something to the biomechanical member of the mission that made their way down to the planet surface (Walter).

With thousands of frozen colonists on the "Covenant" ship that most likely end up as facehugger hosts, are these colonists somehow related to the eggs later found by the Nostromo crew on LV-426.

Yes, the Nostromo crew said the Space Jockey looked thousands of years old but who knows.

The deleted scene from Alien regarding the Engineer Transmission is on YouTube here.

rozns

May-05-2017 12:16 AM

Regular parrot, what the father explained to you about ancient covenants probably came from what he knows about this:

Covenant_of_the_pieces

To this day Jews perform the "covenant of the word' which is practiced by cutting of the penis' foreskin(circumcision).

Ancient pacts and covenants always required some form of cuts to be made or some blood be drawn to ensure the agreement is physical and not just cheap talk as we say nowadays.

Ingeniero

May-06-2017 6:55 AM

Thank you rozns. This topic was referring to the original meaning of a covenant and not the modern "punch line" we have been exposed to in promises from others.

"Ancient pacts and covenants always required some form of cuts to be made or some blood be drawn to ensure the agreement is physical and not just cheap talk as we say nowadays."

Good explanation.

Genesis 17:4-7

“As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.”

I do not believe the ship used in the greatest attempt by humanity to put our best works (technology, medicine) and people in the position to attempt the furthest colonization is named haphazardly.

Why wouldn't the ship be called "Super Humanity Warehouse Ship" or "Grow Oranges On New Mars" or "Walter Wave" opposed to being named Covenant?

Prometheus was named in concept in relation to what they were attempting to capture on LV-223. The "fire" that Peter Weyland wanted to harness fits with below:

Leviticus 2:23 (LV-223):
Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD.

I do believe that these concepts were considered in the Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and Alien story development.

LV-426 then, in my mind, is the altar described below.

Levicitcus 4:26 (LV-426):
He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the leader's sin, and he will be forgiven.

BigDave

May-06-2017 7:06 AM

I think we cant rule out what becomes of the Covenant Ship, but i am not sure the Covenant refers to just the ship, but who knows.

I think however its unlikely the Covenant ship is a Covenant between Mankind and the Engineers as part of a agreement for what we did 2000 years ago...

I wondered why the Engineers never came back and i thought a Covenant could be that they decided to not bother with destroying us and made a Covenant to never attempt to use the Bio-Weapon on us again... due to the costly circumstances and they merely leave us to ROT as there is no way once we are abandoned by the Engineers, that we could evolve to be a Space Faring Race.

This is what i had assumed for a few years as why they never came back.

This fits with the Main Covenant in the Bible, which was that God made a Covenant with Noah that he would never use a Flood to attempt to Destroy Mankind again.

The other main Covenant in the Bible is between GOD and Mosses and the Jews, in which in part GOD promised them the Holy Lands.

The First Covenant in the Bible is with Adam, which was broken by Adam once he had been tempted to Eat from the Forbidden Fruit.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-06-2017 7:10 AM

Leviticus 2:23 (LV-223):

If i try and put it into context to the Franchise, then i would speculate that the LV-223 Outposts are Sacred Places, that those who are unclean in the eyes of the Creators are not allowed to this place, if they do come to this place then only Death will be the Discovery.

Levicitcus 4:26 (LV-426):

In context can only mean that a Act of Redemption by the Space Jockey was attempted, in return for the wrongs (related to the Bio-Weapon) that he or his race had previously attempted.

The deleted Scene in Alien is interesting and its one other clue that would show us the Derelict event was Alien and Ancient.

We dont know where Ridley is going with this now, but i would not rule out in the future a Edited version of Alien that will include this scene with a different Audio.... likewise the Egg Morph Scenes with Enhanced Effects.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

May-06-2017 1:57 PM

Have a most wonderful birthday and I wish you the best apple pie in the world BigDave.

"I think however its unlikely the Covenant ship is a Covenant between Mankind and the Engineers as part of a agreement for what we did 2000 years ago..."

I was referring to a "Covenant" in regards to whoever stopped the Engineer's attack on LV-223 that saved humanity from the Engineer's plans to wipe them out. Someone protected humanity.

I intended no relation to the crucifixion of Christ in regards to my theory on the meaning of what the covenant is but the Covenant with Noah is a good example of what I was trying to convey. 

Yes, I believe that LV-223 is a sacred place and was attacked long ago. Who stepped in to save humanity? Did we owe them something for it, hence "covenant"?

As an offering, really great point below in regards to LV-426 and redemption.

"In context can only mean that a Act of Redemption by the Space Jockey was attempted, in return for the wrongs (related to the Bio-Weapon) that he or his race had previously attempted."

I actually thought after reading your quote that the offering may have been for atonement for another leader's sin for coming near the sacred offerings on LV-223, Peter Weyland.

Levicitcus 4:26 (LV-426):
He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the leader's sin, and he will be forgiven.

 

chli

May-07-2017 8:02 AM

As for the ship’s name, I would say that “Covenant” is the agreement made between the colonists (between themselves and the rest of humanity) to fulfill the mission of starting a new civilisation for mankind, just like The Mayflower and the pilgrim fathers. There might of course be lose religious symbolism intended since it’s also about “gods” and creators.

I don’t see LV-223 as being attacked 2.000 years ago. I see it as an outbreak of the pathogen due to carelessness/accident (but which also can hint at chance/fate/destiny since it is connected to the time of Christ). Janek also tells Vickers of a similar accident which he has experienced. The space jockey on LV-426 also seems to be from this time since its fossilised (crashed on its way to destroy Earth) and perished due to the result of the same outbreak (face hugged and chestbursted)..

But there is of course the possibility that the space jockey isn’t that old (it’s only been dead for a couple of years when The Nostromo lands there and is the result of David’s experiments). “Paradise” is LV-426 (after some kind of devastation). This scenario would perhaps make it easier to connect David’s creation (the xenomorph) with the eggs on LV-426 that Kane encounters? The alternative would of course be that David has nothing to do with the xenomorph and the eggs on LV-426. The xenomorph is a very old creature (suggested by the mural) and the engineers reinvented it? The eggs might have been created in another facility on LV-223?

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