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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

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Is Dr. Elizabeth Shaw dying?

Is Dr. Elizabeth Shaw dying?

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-01-2017 10:09 AM

So after seeing the prologue "THE CROSSING" footage on alien day, what made my mind start wondering was why all of the sudden did the Black goo go from a Chemical to a "PATHOGEN" because for those who don't remember or don't know a pathogen is a disease which is often communicable or capable of spreading from person to person and as we saw in Prometheus something happened to Dr. Shaw that caused the trilobite to occur and if people are right that it happened from Dr. Shaw and Dr. Holloway having intercourse then regardless of how it infects, she is infected and as we see in the footage as well Dr. Shaw is sweating profusely and doesn't necessarily look to be in the best health and if this is true and DAVID views Dr. Shaw as a mother of sorts after all the pain he caused her she still displays compassion and care towards DAVID and if she were to die it would push him over the edge believing it to be the Engineers doing even if not directly and it would support Chris' theory. what do you guys think?

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

Replies

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-01-2017 10:17 AM

I think it's totally possible. It seems like there really are only two plausible theories. Shaw dying and her loss pushing David over the edge is one. David snapping and killing her out of a new found hatred for humanity is the other.

Truth be told I think either possibility would satisfy me at this point. Both are equally profound.

I will say however, if what you say is how it truly happens, it would add a whole new layer of emotional depth to David's character and it would be hard to ever truly see him as a full blown villain. He'd be an anti-villain as has been mentioned and THAT would have it's own wonderful nuances to explore.

 

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-01-2017 10:20 AM

not to mention that he would create the Xenomorph with the intent of making people who are incapable of creating children the ability of giving birth just not in the traditional sense as a way of honoring Dr. Shaw and would make sense because according to some in the footage that shows DAVID taking Oram into the room with the eggs he says "All they need is a mother"

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

S1m0n

Member

4

Posted May-01-2017 10:38 AM

Is it possible the stasis chamber has unintended consequences? maybe this is how we have a different type of engineers? 

LadyStardust

Member

0

Posted May-01-2017 10:41 AM

David stated when first in contact with the black goo: "Organic".

LadyStardust

Member

0

Posted May-01-2017 10:54 AM

But the chances she might be still infected are not so high, since the placenta does it job preventing a full blood exchange between the mother and the fetus - only oxygen and nutrients pass.

But then again, we're talking about the black goo... Who knows?

Davefried81

Member

4

Posted May-01-2017 11:07 AM

I keep on referencing the Empire article.  It said Shaw "disappeared" for reasons the film would explain.  I firmly believe she is somewhere else..

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-01-2017 11:16 AM

LadyStardust He did? plus remember when the Trilobite burst the sack (I forgot the term for it Dr. Shaw's Stomic was still cut open and I am pretty sure that was blood that was in there.

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

milanzdjelar

Member

0

Posted May-01-2017 11:45 AM

i think that she is going to be   a alien 

LadyStardust

Member

0

Posted May-01-2017 12:14 PM

@Resurgence, yes, David said "Organic" as soon as he had the black goo on his fingers in the chamber.

Then again, yes, you do have a point for what happened when Shaw had the Trilobite out of her and the cut was still open - it is pretty much the same as AIDS contamination in newborns.

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-01-2017 3:48 PM

Davefried81

So, are we suggesting Shaw wakes up during David's bombardment operation, takes control of the ship, David falls out of the bomb bay, catching a safe ride down on the shaft of the scorpion ship landing at the doorstep of his new home (the hall of heads), and after Awakening, we'll get a sequel to AC where David has hijacked the Covenant using Walter's body, he chases down and reaches Shaw (who has attempted to fly back to 223) just as she's being picked up by another Juggernaut manned by a 223-style engineer, David and the Covenant are then captured as well, the engineer confiscates David's embryos as well as the frozen colonists and in fascinated curiosity with David's work, the engineer turns all 2000 colonists into eggs, then David finally hits the redemption part of his arc by teaming with Shaw to deliver an egg to this engineer which then gives birth to the first true xeno, bringing about the Derelict crash on LV-426?

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted May-01-2017 4:28 PM

Its very interesting....

I actually think we wont get any answers as such,  it will be left as ambiguous as in Prometheus when we asked... is that the Black Goo that killed those Engineers, or something created from it (Deacon etc).

She looked ill thats for sure, but it would appear she has been suffering with this illness for 6-12 Months due to Hair Growth, would she suffer a slow effect like this?

Surely maybe some infection was passed over rather than One Rogue Sperm, or Parasitic Worm.

The Prologue gives the impression Davids intentions towards Shaw at the point he was put back together was not hostile towards her.

I would doubt she would thus had made her more ill.

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

Blackwinter-witch

Member

63

Posted May-01-2017 4:37 PM

Given the surgery she endured in PROMETHEUS, and then all the running around and such, as well as when the trilobite burst it's sac while her incision was still open...there's many avenues of infection, up to and including some kind of slow-progression internal cause, say from a nicked section of intestine, and her immune system fighting a slow, losing battle. As an example of this a friend of mine recently had surgery for what was thought to be a hernia...in fact his appendix had burst without his knowledge a couple years back, and while such usually creates massive infection, in his case it went along the lines of a slowly progressing infection that crated significant scar tissue, adhesions and then started creating pains akin to a hernia when the adhesions bound to certain muscles.
His surgeosn were pretty surprised, to be sure, and he recovered very well post-surgery.

That all said, I'm betting Shaw is dying from a slow-progression, mundane infection as food and proper medical care are likely in short supply. She might also have some innate physical condition and has no remaining medication to control such, as an example, Diabetes.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted May-01-2017 4:51 PM

Indeed she could be someplace else...

Its something we cant rule out....

However Ridley Scott let slip a bit of information, when discussing Shaw, Ridley Scott said she only makes a small appearance but she is important to what David latter carries out in the movie.

This Pushes me to conclude Shaws Fate is not Good... she is Dead... by either

1) Dies prior to Arriving and this event after how kind she had been to David is what pushes him over the edge and he Blames and Punishes the Engineers for this.... (but we have to wonder what triggers him to be willing to allow death to the Covenant Crew)...  He must maybe only have fondness for just Dr Shaw.

2) Shaw as far as her Genetically Material (or Eggs), is needed as a basis for his Experiments he has been conducting.

"who are incapable of creating children the ability of giving birth just not in the traditional sense"

I think this is why the LV-223 Engineers Worshiped the Mural.

A big question and i posted a thread on it is this image.

Davids Workshop has these Skulls that i pointed out with arrows and these are Human Baby (New Born) Skulls, we have to ask where did these come from?

A wild theory is what if David killed off those on Paradise and then told Shaw that She can Re-populate and start a New Civilization off that could be brought up on her Morals... she cant bare Children...

Maybe David says he can help her create life and so he is able to make her Pregnant to Birth Human Babies (maybe he uses Engineer DNA?).

But at some point David decides to use these as a Basis for his Experiments due to Curiosity as he sees the wonders of Shaws creation that David helped her with and David wants to create his own... or witnesses a infection on one of Shaws Children

And David sees this has his own creation and so maybe he does it again, and then Shaw disproves and their Relationship goes sour..

Shes tries to escape... David feels Betrayed, if he cant have Shaw, if she no longer wants to stay or be around him.... then he prevents her and uses her to create more Off Spring for Experiments?

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-01-2017 4:51 PM

What did her father die from because I am pretty sure David brings it up either questioningly or as a statement to Dr. Shaw and does anyone know if it was hereditary, or can look it up?

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

Blackwinter-witch

Member

63

Posted May-01-2017 4:57 PM

Shaw's father contracted Ebola, a Filovirus type of hemorrhagic fever.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

LadyStardust

Member

0

Posted May-01-2017 4:58 PM

@Resurgence: ebola.

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-01-2017 6:59 PM

If her hair is truly telling us she's been surviving in alien conditions for as much as a year or more, there's a fair chance malnutrition has set in due to a lack of a balanced diet.

She may have been forced to go into hypersleep in order to preserve herself for when they could get food.

It's also possible, she may have accepted her impending death when she decided she wanted to go to paradise. She could have concluded that completing the journey and getting an answer was more important than survival.

So she pushes herself as hard as she can the entire journey, knowing she's in the process of expiring.

When she is in her final days, David puts her into hypersleep (like Weyland) to preserve her for the chance to meet her maker before she dies.

There are parallels here to Weyland's own selfish wish of a similar nature. Shaw may die just prior to arrival, and in reaction to this, David snaps. This may lead him to perceive Shaw as selfish for leaving him in order to chase down her selfish obsession. He could then draw a conclusion that Shaw is no different than Weyland. They both were willing to die for their answers, just like Holloway.

In considering this, David then translates Shaw being selfish into humanity as a whole being selfish. This could be the reason he embarks on a mission to destroy human kind.

Raido

Member

23

Posted May-01-2017 7:47 PM

I'll be a bit miffed if she's flat-out dead in COVENANT; my only consolation being that AWAKENING will apparently take place between PROMETHEUS and COVENANT, and will likely include Shaw in a major role. For nearly five years I've been wanting to know the Continuing Adventures of Dr. Shaw and David 8, and am a wee bit disappointed that COVENANT won't center upon their story. But there's always AWAKENING.

I am intrigued to see if/how Shaw's fate impacts David. I'd prefer the "David is an Anti-Villain" theme, as it's one of my pet theories, but I won't be upset if it turns out that's not the case.

It would also be interesting if David DOES just turn out to be a true bad guy; snapping into madness or villainy for numerous reasons, which some have postulated before me:

Shaw's death makes him feel abandoned/alone, and his newly/barely-developed emotions aren't enough to let him cope, causing him to go berserk;

He learns the Engineer culture/technology and becomes egomanaical, believing himself superior to humans and Engineers, killing Shaw and the Paradise inhabitants to make way for his own creation;

The Engineers take or kill Shaw and force David to do their black goo-dirty work for them, as he is immune to their effects, and for revenge he destroys them. Afterwards, he becomes proud of his black-goo creations, and finds the Covenant crew perfect subjects for testing his creations;

Shaw may abandon/flee from him after she finds out he's killed the Paradise Engineers, he sees this as a betrayal and starts creating new organisms that won't betray him;

David becomes disillusioned with mortal beings like humans and Engineers (who are "mortal after all"), and endeavors to create the perfect organism--a biomechanical being that's nearly impossible to kill and almost infinitely adaptable.

David could even become a creator gradually. Perhaps Shaw IS sick or dying, and in order to save her he modifies her with the Accelerant. Considering this is probably not something she'd prefer to have done to herself, she'd likely leave him behind out of anger or horror. Alone, David would begin creating more new beings, becoming prouder and prouder of his works as they improve. Then along comes the Covenant--the perfect opportunity to test his perfected specimen.

*Sigh.* I really want to see what happens, but alas I have to wait eighteen more days...

Inquisitor Fifield

Member

6

Posted May-01-2017 9:13 PM

Did you guys know that Noomi Rapace was among the latest celeb nude leaks?

Looks more like footage out of some sort of B-movie or borderline pornographic indie production, but I dont think i can ever see her the same on screen, hehe.

And no I wont post Links out of respect of this forum.

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-02-2017 4:13 AM

Raido I am not saying that she is already dead I am saying that she may be DYING. And really inquisititor Fifield, really?

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

Davefried81

Member

4

Posted May-02-2017 6:33 AM

I smell a stinky 

Raido

Member

23

Posted May-02-2017 6:38 AM

Resurgence, I was saying that I would be disappointed IF she's already dead by the time the events of COVENANT take place. My meaning being that if she is indeed dying in the CROSSING prologue (as you asked about), it would be a bummer if she's flat-out dead by the time the Covenant arrives on the planet. Never said that you said she's already dead.

Then I went on to say that IF she's already dead, it would be interesting to see how that plays a role in David's later actions in COVENANT.

However, she may very well not be dead in COVENANT. (I would prefer this turnout immensely). However, she's been described as "missing" and that could imply a lot of things. Perhaps, as I postulated above, Shaw has been altered by David in his attempt to save/revive her, and in horror or anger she flees. Or, in disgust, she leaves him after he kills the Paradise engineers. Maybe she's simply been mutated into a Giger-esque birthing machine by David or the Engineers or the black goo or whatever; this is another popular theory that I wouldn't mind being accurate. Another theory I've seen is that she's not even on the same planet; that they were separated during the events that will likely be shown in AWAKENING. I myself speculate that she's being held hostage by the High Engineers, or even the rumored Higher Beings they serve, and to get her back/save her David starts creating new beings with the black goo.

QueenElizabethShaw

Member

63

Posted May-02-2017 7:30 AM

Raido

I have to wonder if it would really be all that bad. Yes it's not what any of us have been expected for the last few years but just imagine. It's a hell of a morbid plot twist. 

Shaw being so fixed on her answers, she neglects all real care for her well being and allows herself to just expire slowly. As if she's metaphorically pushing on towards her answers through a barrage of bullets, knowing that when she finally reaches the engineers, she will die, but at least she'll have found her meaning. 

Consider how angry David might be with her for this if it's true that he did grow attached to her. The feelings of betrayal and abandonment he could feel. There's some real potential there.

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-02-2017 7:48 AM

Based on how Sir Ridley Scott has heavily integrated religious aspects into the alien series following Prometheus I would not be surprised if she was resurrected Jesus-Style.

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

AaronStar

Member

8

Posted May-02-2017 8:06 AM

 

She is turned into an egg laying Neomorph for David ...

 

Look upon the pictures and beware...

 

 

The same fate as her partner Holloway and Fifield, the pathogen will turn those whom it infects...

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-02-2017 8:32 AM

Plus just because she is Missing doesn't she isn't dead and if Dr. Shaw is dead and going to be resurrected I feel the Engineers will be responsible because I doubt that all of the Engineers were at the citadel when DAVID dropped the ampules and this would be possible with my theory that there are multiple factions among the engineer race because I believe that the term 'Engineer' is simply a group in the race and there are probably multiple branches in the Engineer faction similar to our engineering with there being Bio-Engineering, electrical engineering, civil engineering, etc

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

Raido

Member

23

Posted May-02-2017 11:59 AM

QES

I don't think it would be "all that bad" either. I believe I said above that if Shaw is dead, it would be a bit of a bummer, but then I went on to list a number of interesting developments that could take place if she were. I'd prefer to see her alive, but since AWAKENING is apparently set before COVENANT there's always the chance to see her story in detail then.

Back to Resurgence's main idea--IS Shaw dying? In another thread I was replying to, someone suggested that she's not sick, just the environmental settings for the Engineers are warmer than human preferences. It's not something I find probable, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.

Entity_XB1458

Member

0

Posted May-02-2017 12:00 PM

Going by the leaks cropping up on places like 4chan, AaronStar is right and Shaw ends up as a test subject for David.

Resurgence

Member

24

Posted May-03-2017 4:29 AM

Raido if it were the conditions then why when Fifield and Milburn were lost why did they need the space blanket and were visably cold.

Look upon my works, you mighty, and despair

It's Shaw!

Member

0

Posted May-03-2017 5:03 AM

@Resurgence, maybe because the ship hadn't been active at that time? But then again, when David puts her in hypersleep, she's wearing the Engineer cloak, as if she's cold...

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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