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Interesting things... Oversights, Plot Holes or AC is not set on Paradise?

Interesting things... Oversights, Plot Holes or AC is not set on Paradise?

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BigDave

Apr-26-2017 6:33 PM

The Alien Day Footage has given us some interesting insight into Shaw and David and i have noticed a few things that maybe could do with a explanation, or a source of debate and hopefully none are a oversight.

We see Dr Shaw clearly does re-attach Davids head, however we have to ask.... Where did she get the Tools from? Surely they are not Engineers?  

Other things Noticed are the Pen and Paper David would need to Draw Shaw  (and things in his workshop at a latter date)  clearly Shaw and David have writing equipment on the Covenant but from where?

Surely the Engineers dont use this or have this? surely they Navigate via the Control Chair and Pilot Chair, and so why would Shaw need this and it looks more like Modern Mankinds Navigation Equipment... but again where from and why use this?

Then we have this shot of the operating Table and again, this does not look Engineer Technology which includes the bottles and other things we see in this shot

The Set Reports claimed Shaw had a Bed and the way it was described was not like a Cryo-sleep Pod.

Again where do they get this from?

Dr Shaws Hair has Grown quite a bit even prior to re-attaching Davids Head, a Colossal Oversight that  is worse than 15Ft Space Jockey become 7.5ft Engineers?

This Hair Growth looks about 7 Inches, which is a good years worth at least.

So this raises a few Questions.

1) How long was David and Shaw on LV-223 before they left, as the date they arrived 25 Dec and Date they left 1st Jan (or at least made the SOS) is 7 days and Hair dont grow like that in 7 Days.

2) Did they recover equipment from the Prometheus Wreck, or the Lifeboat, or did they get it from some other place.

The Cryo-sleep Scene she is getting into the Chamber and asks David how long will it take, and his head is attached and this scene looks like its the First Time she has been in Cryo-sleep.

Did they go to Paradise First and she is asking how long to get to Planet 4, or did they go to LV-426 (not require Cryo-sleep).

Many Questions....

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

16 Responses to Interesting things... Oversights, Plot Holes or AC is not set on Paradise?

Starlogger

Apr-26-2017 6:36 PM

It's easy to consider this...yet easy to forget, my friend ;).

dk

Apr-26-2017 6:42 PM

I brought up the notebook paper question on another thread. Necronom IV suggested it was taken out of the remnants of the Prometheus or life boat or maybe they stopped at a convenience store enroute to their destination perhaps Jetsons style lol!

BigDave- It is very fun to already start picking at things- I love it. At any rate, I will just sit down and suspend belief and enjoy the show!

 

BigDave

Apr-26-2017 6:55 PM

Accidentally Published before i had finished ;)

You can now see the full intended post...

Raises a number of Good Questions, that can relate to the Cabin/Room and Record Player and how Shaw by Coincidence Shaw was humming the same tune "Take me Home"

Explain where David got the Lighting for his Workshop, the Pen and Paper and other things and also the Flair Gun.

I put in another Topic about the Robe, but looking at the size of it then it seems it was made for a being of about 7ft mark ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-26-2017 7:03 PM

Oh the purpose was not to pick Plot Holes, just i know some people had problems with stuff that had not explanation in Prometheus and seems this movie has many more..

But i dont think Ridley Scott would make the same mistake again and such major oversights...

There has to be a reason for where all this stuff came from, the Hair Growth and it cant be as easy as "oh they found some stuff in the Prometheus Wreckage and then Shaw could re-attach Davids Head"   OR They went back to the Lifeboat... I dont think Shaw would be as silly, as she has no 100% way to know if the Engineer died, and if so what Danger does the Trilobite pose..

A Logical Explanation if this is what happens, is David informs Shaw he knows about these Creations and informs her the Engineer would be incapacitated for XXX number of hours and so to quickly grab supplies.

The end of Prometheus she takes Davids body and Head and are seen heading to another Temple Mound to get a Juggernaught, does she find one and then decide to go back to the Crash Site or Lifeboat?

I do think there is a important Story to be told here that the ADF Prequel Book may cover.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

K-Theory

Apr-26-2017 8:03 PM

From the dropship that was ejected from Prometheus I would assume. 

Necronom IV

Apr-26-2017 9:14 PM

Shaw and David left LV-223 in the Juggernaut directly after scavenging all the supplies they could from the wreckage of Prometheus. However after leaving the planet, they still needed to figure out a couple of thing. David told Shaw before his head was put in the bag, that he believed he could pilot the ship. So after shooting off into space at random, they still had to work out the operational function and tech of the Juggernaut, find the engineer homeworld from thousands of options etc etc. Also in the new footage, she puts his head on before they work out all these questionsmarks, so I figure they must have been floating about in space for quite some time.

"Kane's son"

splatterpunk

Apr-27-2017 7:33 AM

I am willing to overlook plot holes in  Covenant if it is as gory as the reports are saying it is. About time.

A L I E N 4 2 6

Apr-27-2017 8:24 AM

Remember, we are not certain as to how much time has lapsed in the ending voice over of Prometheus. For all we know, they could've been there for awhile, preparing for their expedition. This could mean that the Deacon did indeed sneak aboard the Juggernaut, and could be what caused the crash. After all, David arrives, drops his payload, flies away, and....crashes into the woods?? Seems unlikely. 

Babylonxeno

Apr-27-2017 9:58 AM

They must surely recover items from the escape pod, or the prometheus wreck, but with a deacon running around and david out of action, i wouldnt take my time doing it.

the hologram in the trailer must be shaw initially launching the juggernaut on her own with david providing audio support. She would need to get into orbit, then get all other functions working after davids back in action, notice she has most of her kit on when attaching the head.

im curious about the robe she has, the juggernaut seems to be a warship primarily, and its crew were bio engineered for war, unless there are crew quarters or something maybe they stop somewhere on the way. I think the sound on the crossing trailer is misleading and is edited to be so. The ozymandias quote could be when david is setting up the covenant crew?

the fact we can see them successfully piloting the juggernaut makes me think they are shot down somehow during the paradise airstrike.

the trailer reeks of religious themes and feels spiritual, i think it relates to egyptian afterlife mythology(crossing river styx type stuff) and the usual ridley scott relationship with light, which he always does beautifully. I just cant see how they can make david the key antagonist, even for future films, the black goo and engineers are almost supernatural and mystical, i cant see how an android could surpass that, i think David must have a master of some kind that he perhaps taps into on the juggernaut, a ghost of sorts, like in man of steel, supermans father inhabits the ship, even though he is long gone.

CarynDelacroix

Apr-27-2017 10:25 AM

It's very interesting to consider.  Good points ALIEN426 and BabylonXeno, and another great topic by BigDave!

I've also been thinking Shaw is the one piloting the Juggernaut when it leaves LV-223.  The voice over message could have been sent from either the life cabin or the Prometheus wreck after Dr. Shaw made her last trip for supplies.  She picks up the android's body and head from the Juggernaut after leaving the life cabin, but maybe she does go back to the Cabin after?

So maybe she takes the vehicle they left behind, which thankfully still works, to help carry things back and forth between locations faster.  As she does this, the Deacon tracks her rover and stows itself aboard the new Juggernaut with David.  She's gone for so long when grabbing some of the stuff, that it enters hibernation state and David kinda forgets. 

When they first leave LV-223, Shaw might not feel completely safe reattaching David's head.  It's possible that David spent a little time instructing Dr. Shaw how to get the Juggernaut into orbit:  the "crash course" that David gives her on how to pilot the Juggernauts could possibly make her overconfident in her abilities.  Perhaps Shaw is able to fly the Juggernauts, but David never said he would be able to make her a good pilot...

Babylonxeno

Apr-27-2017 10:37 AM

For me, i dont think the deacon would remain undetected on the juggernaut, david would find it, or the other way round.

when i look at the juggernaut, it looks like the central seat is for plotting the course, the other seats manage functions like engines and weapons

CarynDelacroix

Apr-27-2017 10:48 AM

That's why I'm thinking there would need to be enough back and forth trips for the Deacon to get a little too comfortable waiting for Shaw to return to the new Juggernaut and remain undetected the whole trip.  

The idea that the Deacon slips into a deep state of sleep while hiding aboard the ship could become important if they go that way.  I'm more so thinking that Shaw is just a bad pilot and the creature didn't follow them all the way.  But if that's the case, it basically might not detect enough signs of Life or movement wherever it chooses to hide.  When David is still without a body, he'd be unsure of where it went/what it's doing.  Or it's possible that David becomes aware of it and tries to steer Shaw away from that part of the ship.  I think Shaw herself has more to do with why the ship crashes on the planet.

sherris

Apr-27-2017 11:38 AM

perhaps the map reading is because the engineers did not have a course set for their home planet.

maybe the home planet is purposely excluded and they found it by other means and manually plotted the course.

it would make sense for an advanced race to not want anyone knowing exactly where they come from.

 

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

CarynDelacroix

Apr-27-2017 1:22 PM

@Sherris

David only really implies he thinks he can take her where they come from.  I can see there being some sort of auto-pilot function in addition to manual control, although I do agree it might not be so easy to make it to the home planet...

They likely wouldn't have the route to the home planet highlighted like Earth was on the star map.

Part of me suspects that Shaw is made semi-aware of David's decision to bomb the planet.  In a groggy state, maybe she half agrees to it without hearing the whole story of why David needs to wake her up to help him bomb these guys.

It would be funny if Shaw blames her decision to go along with David's plan partially on lack of coffee.  Maybe there was an emergency coffee maker in the life cabin, but Shaw never had a chance to make coffee after waking up.  If David tells her the beings on the planet (or in the other ship) pose an immediate threat, then she might be on board with David's decisions.  

I kind of think the prequel story will tell us about a separate crew that arrived a few months before the Covenant.  My theory is that by the time Lope's man stumbles across Shaw's cabin, she's got a bed, the record player, and a coffee maker that a different team left for her.  The set report mentions that Shaw's cabin looks much like the rooms aboard the Covenant, so I'm actually thinking that a different mission happened prior to the Covenant crew arriving:  Walter possibly has knowledge of previous negotiations between W-Y private security forces and David, but Lope hasn't been informed of the deal to bring the unsuspecting colonists to David as test subjects/sacrifices.

BigDave

Apr-28-2017 6:53 PM

Indeed there are many things to consider.

First thing is the time of events in Prometheus, we first see the ship on December 21st 2103 while David is walking around on his own.  Then we have Cryo-Sleep awaking to setting down on the Surface where Janek says its Christmas (Christmas Tree) and Holloway says he wants to open his Presents (its Christmas) So if we assume the date they land and set off to the Temple is December 25th, we can see the time-line of events is 2-3 days which means from when the Engineer is Face Hugged to when Shaw makes her SOS then 4-5 Days have passed, which we have to ask surely a Deacon would have Gestated in that time?

So indeed the actual time-line of events may not directly match what is shown at the end of the movie unless its a

*Plot hole/oversight

*The Deacon Chest Bursted after 4-5 Days

*The SOS was not made during that Buggy Scene

So indeed there is potential for the Deacon to had been loose, which raises a few Questions.  Because Shaw does have Equipment that we can assume is not Engineers, includes the Bed, Pillow, the Repair Kit, Some Flasks/Bowls for Food/Drink.

Where did she get these from? Because clearly she has them when her Hair is longer, so after Months.. unless she got them earlier (logical) but then either set off right away (doubtful as i explain next post). Or she leaves LV-223 goes some place else and gets these... again doubtful as i will explain in next post.

So Shaw then is left with getting them from

a) The Prometheus Wreckage... so she goes and drops David's Body off to another Ship Location and Returns to collect supplies on the Buggy.  What are the chances however of finding all of this in good condition... from the Prometheus Wreckage?  Especially the Glass and Clean Pillow.

b) The Lifeboat.... but then we have to ask would Shaw be so stupid?  However a lot depends on what David tells her about the Organism Life Cycle,  Shaw can not be 100% sure the Engineer would have died, and if she thinks its likely she does not know if the Trilobite would come after her... She would not know about how it would Die after it has done its task.

Likely David either tells her they are designed to kill and then die off, or that they gestate something inside the Host and she has 24 hours, but then i cant see her sticking around on the surface of LV-223 for long if she knows the potential of the Deacon Birth.

Maybe she realizes she has no choice but to just check out the wreckage, we need to remember Between the Entrance to the Lifeboat that Shaw and the Engineer Entered (longer shots made of him coming this way) to the Med-Pod Room is 3 Doors, the Engineer was Face Hugged in the Room leading to that Door, which still means as Shaw knows the Trilobite can-not Open Doors between the Entrance and where the Trilobite is there is another Door.

I would assume she takes a peep though this sees dead Engineer and Trilobite and then thinks its safe to make a dash for equipment.

When she does this, and what David tells her about it (Trilobite) and how long the Deacon Gestated are all important to this event.

Bellow is a image of the sites in Prometheus, we see there is some distance between the Lifeboat and Prometheus wreckage but they all land within about the area i marked X, especially the Juggernaught and Lifeboat but the Prometheus wreckage is spread between this area and the Temple.

Looking at the movie and the schematics of the Temple and Hanger the Distance from the Lifeboat and the 2nd Temple would be 5000-6000ft

I will only assume the Deacon wanders to the first Temple or crashed Juggernaught and not after Shaw...  unless as Queen Elisabeth Shaw stated on their Topic the Deacon is very Intelligent and sneaks on the Juggernaught and hides.

But i fail to see how it manages to evade them without trying to attack them to Procreate... i cant image it would be so clever to know that Shaw and David would leave on that Ship, and  go some other place where there will be Hosts...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-28-2017 7:11 PM

I will now explain why i think Shaw and David remained on LV-223 for Months...  first the only reason why she would not would be.

To leave ASP.... so she basically gets some supplies after she finds another Juggernaught and puts David in two pieces inside, maybe she takes his Head with her when she recovers Supplies.

Then David can indeed advise her how to get the ship into Orbit, but while this is possible they must not be setting off any place as the scene when she is placed into Cryo-sleep appears like the first time she has been in this and its after David is put back together, and this means she spent Months floating in Space?

I also think David should know where Paradise is, i cant see him just having a wild guess and i would assume the Navigation system is as Advanced to directly set course without having to use this..

I dont think this is Engineer Technology however i also dont see why the Prometheus needed this, so its a Plot Device thats not really needed apart from to potentially tell the story of Shaw needing time to trust David.

Otherwise there has to be another reason they remained for Months.  I can only assume Shaw plots rough map here, but i fail to see the point as no soon as David is back together he can use the ships Navigation.

To me this whole device looks like having to use the Car Sat Nav to find a Location but first you need to use your phone, or other device to Google where you want to go to obtain a Zip/Post Code (Coordinates) to then put in the Sat Nav.

So i think this must be used as some plot device to tell how this relationship required time to build up trust and thus explains Shaws Hair Growth.

I think this time of events is what the ADF Novel will cover.

I am assuming they remain on LV-223 due to this shot

Then if this is a Window/Port Hole of sorts that light could be cast from the Planet or Moons or Sun and so i guess it does not have to be on LV-223

We see Shaw at the controls, and David in one piece and so we dont know yet if David can Show Shaw enough to get the ship into Space, but then she would need his assistance to go further?

Having David be able to guide Shaw to get the ship into Space would avoid the potential Questions over the Deacon and how it gets on board, how they fail to meet it etc.

We then need to ask, why does the Engineer need the Pilot Chair if this is not needed to take off, or part of Navigation.

Because if it is... then this would mean the shot of Shaw at the controls, after David is together is when she is able to operate it in some capacity but she needed David in one piece first.

which is what i think has happened.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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