More than a Moon
Posted Apr-20-2017 4:14 PM
There is no doubt that in the timeline of events, the moon LV-426 will come back into play at some point. When the Nostromo visited the moon, they had no idea what they were going to find. In the end, the moon was more than a moon, it held death. Now, as we prepare to see Alien Covenant, we have all started to wonder the story behind this dark moon. We know that Scott will dove-tail the series into Alien, thus revealing to us how that Derelict (Engineer) crashed there. Certainly, I am sure that Scott has mapped it already and all we have to do is wait.
But in the mean time...the question remains, is there more to this moon. It is the same moon that sits in the same system as the Prometheus entered. Could this moon be another, one of many installations? If we look at the dimensions of the egg chamber in Alien, we could see that it does not fit the dimensions of the crashed ship, but rather sits under it.
Could it be a storage unit for weapons that were too dangerous, as we tend do when we do away with toxic waste, we bury it under ground, thinking we have secured it? I am starting to think and believe that there is more to LV-426 than just a crashed ship but an underground system of vast tunnels and areas that contain other experiments and weapons.
Sure, there's much to consider,but it is entertaining to think about what lies ahead.
Posted Apr-20-2017 4:41 PM
That egg chamber shot is my favourite photography from Alien. We all know the story of how it was meant to be the innards of an ancient pyramid -- which never made it into the film.
If real aliens built cathedrals, that's what they'd look like. The chasm meanders never-endingly; a crooked spookiness. And then you have the unexpected laser mist: a technologically futuristic touch in an otherwise gothic setting.
I for one almost don't want it to be explained, because nothing could ever do it justice. Ironically, the more answers we get, the less alien it becomes. But I love speculating!
Posted Apr-20-2017 4:44 PM
From the og Alien movie, I always assumed that the xenomorph burst from the doomed Engineer's chest, (must have been face-hugged by a facehugger he obviously didn't know was aboard at some point after his take off) causing him to crash-land the ship on that planet. Then the xenomorph grew and laid its eggs in the lower deck of the crashed ship. Then it went off into the planet LV-426 somewhere.. who knows, it could have still been there when the crew of the Nostromo landed and checked it out. I don't know how long those fuckers live. As far as that goes, Kane's son (the first xenomorph an audience ever met) was ejected into space at the end of Alien, but as far as I know, that bastard is still alive out there in open space. The definition of a perfect organism to me, is something that wouldn't need air or food or anything to survive, and is immortal basically. That's why I always hated the idea of a "queen". That makes it very earth-like, insect-like, ad not really "alien" at all. That lessens the perfection. If there must be a queen, then what makes it a perfect organism? Nothing. To me, the "queen" doesn't exist. A true perfect organism is born, needs nothing to survive or Procreate.
Posted Apr-20-2017 4:49 PM
Stan Winston (deceased) You beat me to it! Here is support to your post if anyone is interested. In it, Giger says
Ultimately, the silo was also axed due to time and budget constraints, and the egg chamber was finally merged with the derelict craft. “The budget wasn’t big enough to include this [silo] structure,” Giger continues, “so we decided it would be a good idea to have these eggs inside the derelict, like termites inside the walls of a house.”
Posted Apr-20-2017 4:52 PM
Really good points @Tom. I always just figured that the engineer knew of the eggs in the lower deck of the ship (they were his precious cargo), and for whatever reason one of them hatched and he was face-hugged. I think I'm liking your theory more however, the whole idea that a rogue face hugger was a stow away on the ship and subdued the engineer, and then went on to lay all those eggs.
Posted Apr-20-2017 5:04 PM
Ridley Scott also mentioned the vessel was a warship, a bomber, so I tend to go with that line, as the egg chamber bears more than a few structural characteristics with the ship and follows the hull somewhat like an underslung, oversized bomb-bay that might be a modular attachment to the 'Juggernaut' class of ships.
*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*
Posted Apr-20-2017 6:27 PM
Funny you mention that as about 5 years ago i mentioned similar in that what if the Cargo Hold attached to the underside of the Derelict and i even posted Thunderbird 2 to try and elaborate my point.
Beat me to it as i was also considering that as a explanation, despite thinking the need for another ship seems flawed as far as Bombardment, because well the only way the Engineer in Prometheus would be able to do damage we have to assume then is Crash Land... otherwise we have to ask why does David need the Scorponaught
But back to Topic....
Indeed its pretty open now to what Ridley Scott wants to do and show, i mean if the Space Jockey event happens after the year 2104 then who knows what else he could change his mind with.
But he did prior a few years ago explain the Space Jockey and here is what his explanation was.
*The Derelict was heading to a undisclosed location but it did not get far.
*The Derelict did not Crash, the Pilot was in control of it (so it was a kind of Crash Landing?).
*The Pilot had got infected with his Cargo, and he set course to LV-426 to Quarantine the Cargo and Warn his fellow Brothers.
*The Event had happened within a few hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223 they killed off all those Engineers (thats 1800-2200 years ago ball park).
He added to that after that something in the Cargo Hold had Evolved and it had got to the Pilot.
It now remains to be seen what route he will now take or even if eventually he leaves this a Mystery...
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Apr-20-2017 6:46 PM
@HappyXeno "I always just figured that the engineer knew of the eggs in the lower deck of the ship (they were his precious cargo), and for whatever reason one of them hatched and he was face-hugged."
I was thinkin the same thing Happy, i mentioned a similarthing in a previous topic, eggs produced on LV-223 and shipped to 426, it could possibly be that the engineers knew that the xeno was dangerous to keep on 223, so ship and store them on 426 away from warm blooded lifeforms, engineer was careless, got facehugged and bam! he comes too, sets up warning beacon, waits for the enevitable.
Posted Apr-20-2017 6:58 PM
Great minds think alike :)
LOVE the term 'Scorponaught' by the way!
The way I see the Space Jockey's fate was a weapon-handling error. NO technology is truly perfect/flawless, and Things Happen. Basically, a supposedly 'safe' bomb detonated prematurely/accidentally. Law of averages and Chaos Physics, we're just mice in the clockworks of the Universe.
*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*
Posted Apr-20-2017 7:11 PM
i agree with you Stan, I prefer that and kind of liked the idea that the derelict and space jockey, alien species being left there on LV426 was left unexplained for all these years. Left open ended and unanswered it has kind of a haunting power of the audience's subconscious. All we knew for so long was that whatever caused the derelict and the alien eggs to be there was and felt ancient, and powerful but we knew whatever it was had to be terrifying, and there was a backstory beyond human comprehension. I know they plan on explaining it and I will enjoy it if they do it right without being cheap or contrived . But there is a part of me that wishes those questions would never be answered.... And thus be Left to haunt or imagination forever.
Tom I totally agree with you about the queen. I love that movie but not as much as Alien, but I feel the same as you. Having a queen makes the alien species like insects and not perfect. As you said a true perfect organism need not rely on a queen to thrive it would be able to replenish and reproduce all by itself. It's more terrifying when you know that a single organism could overtake a population through egg morphing or some form of forced mutation. Having a queen makes it understood to some degree, a queen or a mother to a hive is not an alien concept... The whole idea behind Alien was that the creature in 1979 wasn't just from some place out there in the vast darkness of space but that everything about it was beyond comprehension and very alien(adj.) in all aspects. I feel this is where Cameron's Aliens lost what Alien really was about, although I love that movie, and pretend A3 and AR never happened I wish they had kept to the Alien format of some unexplainable cosmic horror. Aliens lost or wrote out the best thing about Alien, it's "alienness" . A queen is an understood concept and a familiar one at that, there's nothing unique about that, it's not a perfect thing it's common and understood .... And by definition if something is understood it is far less frightening.....this definition can be applied to those questions I mentioned earlier about what caused the alien, where it came from and what led to the space jockey and derelict to be on LV426. I love Ridley doing these movies but a part of knows by knowing the answers that original movie asked ... That mystery and imagination stirring sense of awe will be gone for good...after going most of my adult life not knowing and just playing out possibilities in my head while viewing... It will be odd once we eventually are shown.... I just know a part of me will miss that mystery.
Posted Apr-20-2017 8:00 PM
Regarding the Queen i think its a Perfect Stage of Evolution, maybe the Queen is that a Evolutionary Accident.
The Xenomorph seemed to have ONE Agenda if we look at the total picture and that was Procreate, if we only take Alien Theatrical as Canon then all it did was infect people, chest burst out and then kill people and then die off.
Perfect for a Weapon....
Far from Perfect for a Organism, apart from if the only intention was a Weapon (which is was).
If we are to however consider the Organism Procreating then we consider the Egg Morph, well a Queen would be a more Perfect Method as far as ability to then Produce Eggs on Mass.
Rather than having to wait around for Hosts Genetic Material.
For the Organism as far as a Creature that has the ability to adapt and evolve, then indeed Egg Morph to create a Queen would be a Logical Stage to increase the Organisms ability to Survive and Procreate.
For the Organism as a Weapon, by design then this could be a unintended evolutionary step...
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Apr-20-2017 8:18 PM
If i go back to Alien and Prometheus, and the clues there in, and without taking Ridleys Comments into consideration but accept these Events and LV-223 is linked to the Derelict.
Then i come to a conclusion, that Ridleys Comments especially the latter ones on the matter of the Space Jockey (Prior to Alien Covenant) seem to add up to.
LV-223 is very near to LV-426
The Engineers was messing about with this Black Goo Bio-weapon with intentions on using it on Worlds, and we know that while Eggs are Dangerous, the Black Goo is also Dangerous more so in some ways.
The Juggernaught had One Survivor unharmed, the other 3 Engineers were not so lucky and they was Chest Busted .... we have to remember this Prop was worked on before Lindeloffs Re-write and Spaights draft, all of the Engineers was infected and the Surviving one just got into his Cryo-Chamber in time to Prevent the Chest Buster, but once he was woken up, he was furious as now he faces the inevitable.
Alien Engineers is not Canon, but the effects of this scene could be.
So something infected those 3 Engineers, that resulted in Chest Busters. The only thing Prometheus showed us was there was a Black Goo Outbreak 2000 years ago.
We see this Outbreak had the following effects.
*Mutated Humanoids to Hybrid Organisms (alternative scene and concepts for Fifield had more Xeno DNA) Fifield in Spaights draft had Acid Blood.
*Worms mutated into Hammerpede Space Cobras.
*Infected Male who passes on Mutated Sperm, or Parasitic Worms into his Partners Womb, which caused the Pregnancy of a Trilobite (Face Hugger related)
*Infected Human was suffering some kind of effects, that is undetermined due to not exploring what was happening, but likely they was being broken down at slower rate, or mutating at a slower rate.
The Engineers infections its hard to work out, the Engineer Bodies seem to be Hollow, the Head was kept in some kind of Stasis, and when activated to think it was alive, we saw the Cells Changing and it Exploded. I will assume thus these Engineers were being broken down maybe like the Sacrificial Engineer and this Violent Reaction contained within the Pressured Space Suits would eventually blow its way out of various parts of the suit.
2000 years ago we can assume there was no Humans there, no Females, no deliberate infection (unless sabotage).
But there is one thing that could have been around 2000 years ago...
Thats right the Prometheus Crew never brought them down, and so they could have been there for thousands of years.
Worm + Black Goo = Hammerpedes
Worms can re-grow heads, a Evolution of Worm Regeneration due to the Black Goo and they have Acid Blood.
If these Worms take after many on Earth, then they are Hermaphrodites.... which means they have Both Sexes but they can not mate themselves... they need another and then they Mate and Both will Fertilize Each others Eggs.
Yes Worms are Egg Layers..
Prometheus we saw TWO Hammerpedes, now if they Mate, then their Eggs Become Fertilized.
So i Propose a What if during the Lock Down, Worms got infected became Hammerpedes, and Mated and got to the Cryo-sleep Pods and Burnt there way inside to infect those Engineers.
I suspect the Hammerpedes are the best explanation for those Chest Busted Engineers, and i wonder... could this happen to the Engineer/Space Jockey?
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Apr-21-2017 7:24 AM
I thought it seemed the most likely candidate, but the movie is so ambiguous that its pretty much open to debate, as indeed the Engineers were aware of Deacon like Organisms, the Questions with this are.
*Was this what they had obtained the Black Goo from, was it made from the Mural Deacon DNA
*Was the Mural Deacon something they had tried to create, but surely to depict what they are trying to create means they have some knowledge of what it would look like.
*I think more likely the Black Goo came from something else that eventually lead to a Deacon which they then Worshiped in some way.
So some theories was the Deacon's had Chest Busted from the Cryo Sleep Pods, and indeed the Engineers bodies underneath have Holes that would fit with the Deacon, however the Hole in the actual Glass Covering the Cryo-Pods is too small for a Deacon to escape from.
To create a Deacon required being Face Hugged by a Organism and all evidence seemed to show that the Trillobite was only created via a Females Womb, or at least Female Eggs. So for a Deacon to had been responsible for the Outbreak would mean a Female was involved some how.
Unless they had obtained Face Hugger type Organisms from some place else and they was not created on LV-223 well not in that Temple Mound the Prometheus crew went to.
So another possibility is that the Cryo-sleep Chest Busted Engineers were infected before they arrived at LV-223 and after they docked then the Chest Busting happened and led to the Outbreak.
Or indeed the results from the Chest Busters is what the Engineers Re-weaponized.
These events could be explained as possible if we consider they happened maybe few hundred years before the Outbreak and so that time was spent Perfecting and Re-Weaponizing the Organism maybe into the Black Goo.
The Problem with this is the Last Engineer, if he had been part of this crew and docked prior to the Outbreak then why would he remain as such in his Cryo-Pod for hundreds of years before the Outbreak and then remain for 2000 more..
It is more likely the Space Jockey happened after the Outbreak happened.
He had the same idea as the Last Engineer and those other 3, but the Space Jockey was infected like those other 3, only the Space Jockey awoke 200 years latter and set off on his mission.
The Last Engineer simply overslept... his alarm did not go off LOL
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
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