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Please please don`t do a Promethues!

Please please don`t do a Promethues!

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djamelameziane

Apr-05-2017 8:55 AM

Hello im here to make lots of friends again :P . Just want to say hello after being away for a long time and im back to grump about my favourite director and the mess that was prometheus. But lets start with the new trailer shall we :D

Now its looking pretty good but one thing that made my heart sink was that old sticking point with prometheus : Why The Frig Are They Not Wearing Helmets! And its back already in the trailer 42 seconds in!:

https://youtu.be/svnAD0TApb8?t=42s 

That is why you always wear helmets on strange planets and its kinda what happen last time. The crew are also looking a bit like meat for the grinder...no real stick out characters except possibly the main heroine as usual. I just hope they come up with a believable reason this time...

 

Anyway just throwing that out there ...need to catch up on whats been happening. Oh and yes I hope we see that demi god ridley was talking about that could spice it all up. It will be fun seeing if some of our old predictions come to fruition to...and much more.... :P

 

 

 

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

38 Responses to Please please don`t do a Promethues!

Lone

Apr-05-2017 12:20 PM

Hahaha start as you mean to go on djamelameziane......

and welcome back to SCIFIED!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Inquisitor Fifield

Apr-05-2017 12:55 PM

Welcome back dear unknown person who thinks his points of view are relevant to anyone.

Starlogger

Apr-05-2017 12:58 PM

@Fifield Don't forget "...and so important so as to make up an entirely new thread despite said trailer having already been discussed ad nauseum since it was released weeks ago." ;)

123Engineer

Apr-05-2017 1:38 PM

I think there will be quite a lot of people who think the same thing like you djamelameziane. When I saw the trailer the first time, I thought the same. I wondered why they didn't wear helmets and that their clothes looks strange XD Probably, if they would wear helmets and a space suit, they didn't die 

Parkerparrot

Apr-05-2017 1:56 PM

@123Engineer

On the other hand, if they had spacesuits and helmets, they would not be infected by black goo... No scary movie. (Smile!)

              "Bees have hives, man" 

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-05-2017 2:30 PM

The 'No Helmets' thing could be a simple 'overconfidence' in their tech's ability to suss out environmental issues that are dangerous. Overconfidence, well, it leads to bad judgement and assorted other nastiness here in real-life, so why not in fiction?

Remember how overconfident the Col Marines were in ALIENS? Yeah, same basic idea...they thought their tech could handle anything and most got killed.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

S.M

Apr-05-2017 2:33 PM

"On the other hand, if they had spacesuits and helmets, they would not be infected by black goo... No scary movie. (Smile!)"

Spacesuit isn't going to stop some creepy robot spiking your drink. :)

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-05-2017 2:39 PM

Good point about drink-spiking. :D

Also, nothing is ever Perfect...and that includes decontamination procedures.... ;)

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Stan Winston (deceased)

Apr-05-2017 5:37 PM

Obviously, there'll be a momentary scene where the sciencey person declares, "the atmosphere is an astonishing match with Earth... The air is breathable, captain!" Woohoo, no helmets necessary.

Aside: how come Holloway burned to death (very satisfyingly) in an environment that doesn't have oxygen? Nevermind. 

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-05-2017 6:11 PM

well, sci-fi is home to supposedly Brilliant People doing the stupidest things. :)

LV-223 had an earthlike atmo, BUT with CO2 levels fatal to a Human, but not high enough to really inhibit combustion. I had to look up LV-223 for assorted reasons relating to my literary efforts.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Svanya

Apr-05-2017 6:20 PM

Welcome back, djamelameziane! I think you'll be ok this time around, Covenant seems like it's going to be the movie we all wanted Prometheus to be. 

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-05-2017 6:20 PM

Alternate Universe where Manticore gets hired to transport the Holloway-Shaw expedition to LV-223:

*Holloway removes helmet, etc, etc.*

**Comms Channel, Manticore's resident Physician, Alistair Smythe:** "Would someone kindly inform the self-appointed guineapig amongst you that he has just earned himself a one week stay in an exterior Iso-Hab, subject to and as-per Quarantine Protocols."

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Rick

Apr-05-2017 6:27 PM

Stan - Uh, (LV-223) earthlike atmosphere with Oxygen and Nitrogen with a very high concentration of Carbon Dioxide.

Utah_CUtiger

Apr-05-2017 9:28 PM

Sounds like you want to see the same movie 8 times. May I suggest the Fast and Furious series? That may be more your style

BigDave

Apr-06-2017 5:38 AM

I did mention before a while back when the first Trailer dropped that i think those who found flaws with Prometheus including silly things like Fifield and Milburn would maybe find just as many flaws with AC.

It also seems again Characters may not be fleshed out to much, but you cant really give detailed development and background when the movie has to deal with a number of things.

Alien was unique in that it only had to deal with ONE Monster and the First time we saw it and only a Small Cast.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

djamelameziane

Apr-06-2017 1:40 PM

Thanks...And yes so ok:

Over confidence in tech fine but show why. What super duper tech so they have because in Prometheus it all looked a bit like almost nothing. They couldn't even detect engineers black goo etc.....

And in alien they had space suits and the face hugger just went through it. The point is it needs to seem real. The first thing a biologist would spot if there was earth like environments is the fact the life there may be similar enough to pass on any number of fatal things. Not to mention potentially disastrous contamination from them to the environment. 

 

They could have intelligent humans geared up with the best tech being careful in a way most normal people act etc... And still get infected and destroyed because this goo and the xenos it makes are crazy powerful and evolved. I suspect the goo is from the demi God...stuff on a completely new level of evolution. But let's see :p .

 

Anyway like I say I really hope they have a good answer and are not anywhere near as stupid as the Prometheus crew...that old haunted house in space idea was awful.

 

I love the over all idea with this series its just painful when you can see it's full potential and it hits way below that like in Prometheus....

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-06-2017 1:51 PM

djamelameziane

In PROMETHEUS, they did some tests/analysis of the air inside the Engineer building and Holloway, then the rest, removed their helmets. What if the scanner was simply unable to process and identify some Unknown pathogen in the air?

That's what I meant by overconfidence in technology leading to smart people doing stupid things :) Holloway however, was an idiot, I liked the actor, but the character of Holloway I can't stand.

As for facehuggers and other things that are just overwhelmingly powerful and capable of burning through/breaching a suit, well, the Hammerpede showed that clearly, and there's not much you can do about things like that.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Babylonxeno

Apr-06-2017 2:20 PM

Hey, if you wanted to protect yourself i would do it all remote from earth and use androids to take the risk, come to think of it, some humans are useful too for experimentation???

Ingeniero

Apr-06-2017 2:32 PM

And another warm welcome and self esteem building statement of support from Inquisitor Fifield

I hope I'm forty minutes into Alien: Covenant before I know it isn't Prometheus. Welcome back djamelameziane.  

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-06-2017 2:55 PM

Babylonxeno

That's pretty much the thinking of the Captain in ALIEN: Manticore. :D

The crew of that ship aren't going to be 'conveniently stupid' just to advance the plot. Such is unrealistic, and would be a serious continuity error regarding how I've done my characters. They are a crew who are acutely aware of the dangers inherent in space travel, and while this does NOT mean they know about Xenos, not really, they do have a well-developed sense of caution as they're accustomed to salvaging wrecks where spontaneous reactor leaks can happen, there might be armed and un-fired munitions, as well as assorted other mundane but no less lethal dangers.

That doesn't mean there isn't risk, especially in the follow-up story where they follow the course of the juggernaut that David and Shaw took to Paradise. Sometimes though, there's just no substitute for being involved first-hand, no matter how good your drones and such are.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Raido

Apr-06-2017 5:51 PM

Jeez, Inquisitor Fifield, that was pretty savage! XD

That being said, PROMETHEUS dared to do what no other prequel film has done before or since--expand an existing movie's "universe" beyond its original limits. Even Star Wars: Rogue One (which technically is a prequel) didn't reach as far as PROMETHEUS did--although it was a LOT more imaginative and innovative than TFA, but I digress...

When I went to see PROMETHEUS in the theater I was expecting another stupid "bug hunt." Instead, I got a film that *felt* like ALIEN but *thought* like Blade Runner. (I'm actually working on a thesis analyzing the thematic connections between all four [so far] of Scott's SF films--trust me, they're as rampant as they are fascinating). It completely thwarted my expectations, and I loved it. It's still the only movie I've seen twice in a row in a theater, and even though I've watched it countless times since its release, I still catch something new almost every time I watch it. It requires its audience to THINK, it doesn't just spoon-feed details. Ridley Scott dared to treat his audience like they had functional grey matter between their ears, and I rather appreciate that.

Certainly PROMETHEUS was far superior to Resurrection, AVP, (which are basically brainless popcorn flicks--fun but stupid) and the abominable AVP: Requiem. I found it preferable as well to ALIENS and Alien 3, both of which I personally find entertaining but flawed.

I hope ALIEN: Covenant DOES "do a 'Prometheus'" and build upon the ALIEN-verse further, and delve deeper into the questions its predecessors ask.

Raido

Apr-06-2017 6:39 PM

Blackwinter-witch:

"As for facehuggers and other things that are just overwhelmingly powerful and capable of burning through/breaching a suit, well, the Hammerpede showed that clearly, and there's not much you can do about things like that."

Indeed. When people gripe about the PROMETHEUS crew removing their helmets it's clear they're forgetting the point that helmets and suits won't protect you against amorous facehuggers and pissy hammerpedes!

Another thing, when people whine about Millburn being daft enough to act friendly towards a hissing penis-looking-snake-thing; have they never been on YouTube and searched "people being attacked by animals"? How many times does one see a zookeeper or biologist, who should know better, getting mauled, stabbed, or pecked by some creature they've angered?

Also, Millburn's foolhardy behavior is completely in line with his character. He's friendly to unfriendly things. Of all the people aboard the PROMETHEUS, he chooses to be chummy with Fifield. Even though the man is obviously miffed after being so long in hypersleep, glowering at him, and tells him he's not interested in friendship. Undaunted, Millburn sits next to Fifield at the briefing and again on the rover, causing the geologist to move one seat down. Taking this into consideration, Millburn's overly-friendly demeanor, combined with the exhilaration of finding an extraterrestrial specimen, makes his foolish behavior with the hammerpede not really all that surprising.

I'd actually argue that the point of the expeditionary team removing their helmets to follow Holloway is art of the theme of obedience vs freedom that runs throughout the film. Most of the Prometheus' crew blindly follow orders. Many of them have no idea what their mission is, they're just loyal to either the Weyland Corporation (because they want to make money) or Weyland himself. David has a desire to have free will, but as long as Weyland his alive, he must obey his master's wishes. Janek, who "just flies the ship," nonetheless has enough sense to look past the Company's directives and Weyland's fantasies to realize just what a threat the Engineers truly are to humanity. When the time comes to stop the Last Engineer from exterminating mankind, he leaves the ultimate decision to a democratic vote, and his crewmen choose their fate to die along with him.

Obedience/slavery vs free will/individualism is a theme that runs throughout all of Scott's SF films, (and I'd argue some of his non-SF movies as well).

For instance, when Dallas and co. obediently follow the Company's orders to investigate the mysterious signal, they're heading towards their eventual doom. Parker, Ripley, and Lambert have the wherewithal to question the idea, but in the end, obedience to their superiors rules. It's Kane that insists "we must go on!" as they approach the derelict, and we all know how that ends up for him. It isn't until Ripley and her remaining crewmates rebel against the Company and decide to scuttle the Nostromo and flee in the shuttle that escape is possible (although of course that doesn't help poor Lambert and Parker).

I'm working on a post that will elaborate on this point further, but I get wordy when I write and so I have to work on whittling it down so it's not a book. I'll be posting it hopefully within the next day or two.

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-06-2017 7:08 PM

Raido

Man, you blew me away with the depth and detail of your insight and analysis!! Dead-on about Milburn, never thought of it that way, but yeah, you absolutely pinned it exactly about him!!

The Obedience vs Freedom, again, awesome point!! Looking over my own works, I just realized that Manticore's crew 'rebel' in a colossal manner. :)

Again, Great post!!

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

Aorta

Apr-06-2017 7:22 PM

LOL Inquisitor Fifield I am beginning to like you.

Welcome back DJ!

Another thing to consider about Milburn was actually voiced in Spaights' original script, that their spacesuits were essentially bulletproof. So yes, Blackwinter, over confidence, whether it was in their theories, their AI (David) or their equipment drove their mistakes. Milburn had no reason to believe the Hammerpede was Death Incarnate, or that it could do him harm even if it was.

Utah_CUtiger

Apr-06-2017 7:39 PM

Obviously, there'll be a momentary scene where the sciencey person declares, "the atmosphere is an astonishing match with Earth... The air is breathable, captain!" Woohoo, no helmets necessary.

Aside: how come Holloway burned to death (very satisfyingly) in an environment that doesn't have oxygen? Nevermind.

Why would this be surprising? Remember that the engineers were terraforming on LV 223. Probably making it like their homeworld which is probably why they chose earth to create life on in the first place. Same atmosphere 

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-06-2017 8:00 PM

Aorta

'Overconfidence kills', and yeah, I have to say, the Hammerpede was a surprise in it's lethality, I didn't expect it to enter his suit in any way, but a compound fracture, well, I guess it took advantage of a warm new nesting place.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

djamelameziane

Apr-07-2017 1:25 AM

 Hmm I would love to buy into it the way some of you do but it really does not feel real to me and many others and that was the main problem. But yes like I say I loved parts of it so I'm not a mega hater...Ridley is my favorite director which is why I expected more. And encouragingly Martian was better than expected so there hope...! Oh and sorry but thank God no Damon lindelof...:s . 

 

And yes I expected savagery I even welcome a nice fiery debate I joined this forum just before Prometheus came out ...this is my second account ... I'm well used to the flack :D . I just don't get quiet so caught up in it these days :p .

Whoa raido you might just give big Dave a run for his money in the future I'm thinking. 6600 posts wow Dave...

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

Aorta

Apr-07-2017 3:37 AM

'Never trust anything that doesn't die when you tear it's head off'

Ha ha these are words to live by.

DJ- you and I had a few debates ourselves, back then. Your requirements are more stringent than most, it's gonna be fun to hear your feelings about AC because it does appear they are going down some familiar paths.

I find this doubly amusing because you know they were aware of all the criticisms leveled at Prometheus, so certain lacks of course correction could almost be read as a middle finger (or more likely as an adherence to efficient storytelling).

Prometheus had a couple issues, but my problems with it don't match anyone else's so I don't go into them. I'd rather support someone having the courage to deviate from the hallowed Alien Universe. 

Blackwinter-witch

Apr-07-2017 3:45 AM

Aorta

Well, the two occasions it's occured do tend to support my statement :D

As for deviating from the 'Hallowed' universe, there's more than a couple of decent writers around here showing their works. Not sure if their works of the level of steering-away from what bothers you about the franchise, but I'd say they are worth reading.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

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