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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

The Alien: Covenant & Prometheus Movie Community

James Cameron's Aliens was a mistake.

BULL ALIEN

Member

4

Posted Feb-07-2017 8:54 PM

me start by saying I believe Aliens went down the wrong path. In Alien we get a really scary creature with unknown motive's. I loved the egg morphing scene. Imagine you have no control over your body as it breaks down and reforms as an egg, you are alive the whole time. Now that creepy.

Now with Aliens we are given a queen and warriors and now they are more like ants/bees, which takes away the unknown factor of this alien species. The Warriors look more insect like. The queen was garbage in my opinion. She did not look scary and it seemed thrown together. The queen could of been more scary and more bio mechanical. Like the first alien was. The actors i loved but the story and design if the aliens was lazy.

I hope Ridley Scott makes these Aliens scary again. I want fear of the unknown back in these movies.

I

Replies

MonsterZero

Member

2

Posted Feb-08-2017 5:47 AM

I agree.....Aliens was just a bug hunt. It really took the mystery away...... and it screwed up the timeline.

 Oh and you could say...

Alien 3 is actually Alien 2.....The Narcissus routes itself to the Fiorina system and it's auto land system fails(or something...it's a old shuttle)...just disregard the events of Aliens.....and Alien follows smoothly into Alien 3 (Alien II)...(the Bishop character is a old roomate or ex..)

Would have been better if Cameron had made his own space monster flick and left the Alien franchise alone.

Dr. Curt Connors

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 6:00 AM

I like Aliens a lot, as good as the theatrical version is I like the special edition even better! But I do understand people that are pissed about the queen and all that so I get it.

Starlogger

Moderator

44

Posted Feb-08-2017 6:28 AM

Thank you thank you thank you. Aliens is hard to watch now. It is a mediocre, overrated mess trying to Hollywood-ize the Alien, and it worked (the "Hollywood-izing", NOT the movie). BUT, between that horrible little girl and her ear piercing awfully fake screams, and the bad acting, and the fake looking Alien hive sets (examine the classic lighted background and strobes that seemed to accompany every horror/action flick in the 80's)...it's just NOT held up over time.

suwhited

Member

2

Posted Feb-08-2017 6:52 AM

I personally liked Aliens.  I realize that it it wasn't "deep" but it brought the action, violence, and gore that the general audience wants to see.  Basically it's good entertainment which is what brings in the money (Bottom Line).

Me I just like anything with the aliens in it. I even watch AVP: Requiem like all the time. I would have loved to have a more cohesive transition from Alien to Aliens, but it is what it is. I am just thankful that Aliens as a movies generated huge interest and kept the series going to where it is today...Anxiously awaiting Alien: Covenant! 

 

BULL ALIEN

Member

4

Posted Feb-08-2017 7:19 AM

I thought i was going to get tore to pieces for writing this post lol. I loved Alien3 just did not like how Fox left H.R. Giger's work in the dust. He had awesome ideas.

Alien was scary because you had no idea what that things motive's were. It raped Lambert, it lobotomize Brett and started turning him into an egg. The same with Dallas but he knew what was happening, imagine the horror of watching a friend's body break down and reform right next to you and knowing that its going to happen to you too.

For get the insect and the hive, that just brings the alien down to our understanding, Alien3 was going to have an alien that had a female mouth that if it kissed you it would rip out your entrails through your mouth or go right out the back of throat.

I really hope Ridley Scott brings the fear and the unknown back the this franchise. I do love the Engineers though, I thought that was awesome we get that cleared up about who the are. I want to know how they got the eggs though. I have seen many people say David made them which is insane sense they were there around the same break out happened in Prometheus.

So much story and rich lore you can create with Alien and the prequels.

Neomorph

Member

2

Posted Feb-08-2017 7:52 AM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Aliens- although crafted into a more straightforward Hollywood-like action horror sci-fi with one-liners and badass characters- is a damn good film despite being "simplified"

There's nothing wrong with that, it's well-written with fantastic acting, likable characters and amazing effects for its time. I'd rather want a simple straightforward story than a writer who imo can't handle ambiguity without balanced payoff (Prometheus)

The Queen was Cameron's idea and a welcomed addition even though I'm not sure I agree on his origin theory.

I feel like the criticism is unwarranted but again each to their own (although I'm honestly surprised to hear that people actually dislike Aliens)

Dr. Curt Connors

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 8:47 AM

@Neomorph     Yeah Aliens is a great flick, I agree with you on everything you said! And I am a person who doesn't care for Prometheus at all so I hear ya there.

MrGoodkat

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 9:23 AM

Aliens also did more to flesh out The company, Weyland-Yutani, and to really lay the foundation for an extended universe. Not to mention the real life social implications it had. One of the few "contemporary" sci-fi flicks to be nominated for best picture AND it helped to make Sigourney Weaver the first female to make 20 million for a single acting job. She was also nominated for best actress for her work in it.

I found the miniature filming work in it extraordinary and while some will always hate the Queen, I personally found it to be a more real world application for them as a species than egg morphing, especially when considering outbreak possibilities.

Aorta

Member

8

Posted Feb-08-2017 9:50 AM

I enjoyed the hell out of Aliens, it was startling and very new at the time, but yes Newt, Hudson and Burke were each in their way annoying and dated characterizations. It was very American (for having been filmed by a Canadian in England), brash and sort of Go Get 'Em. 

Alien holds up better though. Yes, JC did some world building of his own but for me it's mostly boring and the work of someone who doesn't get the source material, and was very keen to put his name on the product. 

It's funny about Sigourney, her acting at certain points is terrible. I never understood the fascination with her. 

Dr. Curt Connors

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 10:05 AM

@Aorta    Her best acting is in Alien 3 in my opinion and is this kinda funny or maybe not. I never found her attractive ever growing up not in Alien or Ghostbusters or anything. But watching Alien 3 recently I think the best she has ever looked is with a shaved head.

Dr. Curt Connors

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 10:16 AM

And the first three Alien movies- Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 are the only ones I own. Don't care for Resurrection or Prometheus. And I watched all 3 of those multiple times recently.

suwhited

Member

2

Posted Feb-08-2017 10:30 AM

If I had to rank them (Sans AVP & Prometheus, which I both enjoy cuz' I'm diehard fan), it would be:

1. Alien - Yessir! This is how you make a horror movie with a  Sci-Fi flavor.

2. Aliens - Macho action-packed film with well-fleshed out characters. A good formula for success.

3. Alien 3- Well done, I just think the premise was limited being confined to the Prison. Chance to do so much more..

4. Alien 4(Resurrection) Good until they introduced that stupid muppet-looking, human-alien hybrid thing. This is the only time I ever got irritated with the series.

The AVP series is not as great but i still like them. Prometheus is also an underappreciated film that just didn't hit it's potential. I anxiously await AC to make up for those deficiencies.

As far as Alien and Aliens, I an old enough to remember standing in line for hours waiting for a ticket. The people coming out of the movie were just blown away...almost in the way Star Wars did folks back in the 70's..My personal feeling is that think people have forgotten just how good the first two movies really were....

 

Dr. Curt Connors

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 10:42 AM

@suwhited     It's hard for me to pick whether Alien or Aliens is my favorite out of them. But those two are at the top for sure, they are great like you said! And then Alien 3, which I think is great and then the others I don't care for. I could still watch the first AVP although it's not very good. And I like the Aliens special edition more than the theatrical version but they are both still great!

Lone

Member

73

Posted Feb-08-2017 11:37 AM

BULL ALIEN- Welcome aboard, you are a brave one! ;)

I can understand and appreciate why JC wanted to put his own stamp on the franchise. If it had been the other way round, Ridley would have done likewise.

I do feel that it was a mistake to bypass H.R Giger for the sequel, why a director wouldn't have wanted to include him just seems insane to me. Think of the possibilities! Of course, JC has always given me the impression that he is pretty arrogant and not as open to collaboration.

Of course, Ridley has been accused of being arrogant and ego-centric, but I happen to think he is pretty damn modest and is actually a great collaborator. Comments from many of the artists, actors, writers and crew who have worked with him totally back that up.

Once again, it all comes down to personal preference. For me, no other Alien Universe film can match A L I E N. Prometheus came pretty close. I'm not going to bore everyone with my reasons, as I've said it all before on many threads.

I do feel that A:C has the potential to be his finest SF project to date!  

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

S.M

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 11:45 AM

"

me start by saying I believe Aliens went down the wrong path. In Alien we get a really scary creature with unknown motive's. I loved the egg morphing scene. Imagine you have no control over your body as it breaks down and reforms as an egg, you are alive the whole time. Now that creepy.

Now with Aliens we are given a queen and warriors and now they are more like ants/bees, which takes away the unknown factor of this alien species."

I think you've undermined your own argument here. In one film there's a Queen; in the other there's egg morphing (which 99% of the audience at the time weren't aware of).

Both films ultimately provide a solution to "where do these eggs come from"; so where's the "unknown factor"?

"The Warriors look more insect like."

The original Alien drew heavily on insects in its creation.

Don Digimon Farrakhan Magic Juan

Member

5

Posted Feb-08-2017 12:57 PM

I think what people need to remember is that Alien was a stand alone film. It was completely self contained and successful as a work of sci-fi because of the curiosity it planted in everybody who stayed in their seats after the chestburster scene. So what should be considered is that unlike a "star wars" movie that is a story told in parts by design, the true beauty of Alien was destroyed with a sequel being made to begin with. The only way it would have worked would be to essentially re-make it, which would have many of us outraged, until we realized the Aliens along with the Derelict ship gave us the"unknown factor" and was the deep subconscious appeal to go along with the intentional appeal we got from a great movie. We all (or at least I did) had our own ideas about where it came from. The credit for that belongs to Hans Rudy, no question about it.

I'll respectfully disagree with S.M about the original having been created with an insect related approach. The creature was the only thing about the film that was basically complete before anything movie related was set. It was in Giger's Necronomicon, which was shown to Ridley and the rest was history. 

That's the most critical part of why we are here. It was the bio-mechanical aspect of the Alien that nobody had ever seen outside of Giger's paintings. it was in fact alien to science fiction as a genre.  The problem is that Giger was never a screenwriter, and his visions of a living mechanical society having violent forcible sex with itself doesn't work as a horror or sci-fi movie about an Alien needs to work. It would be a beautiful stand alone film or series of shorts like the animatrix for example, and be perhaps my favorite film of all time without even needing any dialogue.

That's what I think the real problem is, its not that aliens was a mistake, its that answering the question itself was a mistake. I like Alien, and Aliens. Part 3 is "meh" and part 4 I consider to be a disaster the same as AVP and all the rest of it. I personally cant stand it. LOVE the Predator, cant stand AVP.

So if you think Aliens was a mistake, I hope you can see that maybe its not the Queen element, or how it was given a context of a space bug that we can understand like ants or bees, but the film itself being made that was a mistake, as it provided an answer for a question that was more fun without one. 

ali81

Member

32

Posted Feb-08-2017 1:11 PM

ur point is swojd??

Neomorph

Member

2

Posted Feb-08-2017 1:20 PM

@long name 

 it provided an answer for a question that was more fun without one. 

I agree but for other reasons. I personally never cared about the origin of the Space Jockey, because it was mystic and had us guessing. 

That being said I warmly welcomed the sequels because they were so different from each other and they leave Alien alone, except Aliens but that film nicely builds upon the first film with a new and different direction but without ruining the first film. 

Neomorph

Member

2

Posted Feb-08-2017 1:23 PM

Dr.Swojd

Could you possibly make a point without being rude? 

ali81

Member

32

Posted Feb-08-2017 1:29 PM

only the thing im sure wed like to see the back of is u. wev all seen the garbage u post and the only person trolling anything is u.

I for one loved the direction aliens took. it made sense as u have a lone survivors story about a hostile organism and now there r a bunch load of people in danger. the queen fills in the hole as to how could so many be infected so quickly. I like the queen but prefer the morphing concept as its more horrific. as for giving us an answer. it wouldv been nice to keep some mystery but I don't think it has harmed the xeno that much. though camerons direction was the right one where the marines/ action film r concerned, more damage was done to the fear factor of the xeno by seeing lots of them and seeing them get theyr a$$es kicked for a bit. alien is far superior but I love aliens. one of the all time great action movies

S.M

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 1:32 PM

"The only way it would have worked would be to essentially re-make it"

Aliens borrows so many story beats from Alien, that it more or less is a remake.  Cameron just brilliantly hid it in an action horror film rather than a haunted house film, so you don't notice it.

"We all (or at least I did) had our own ideas about where it came from. The credit for that belongs to Hans Rudy, no question about it."

And Dan O'Bannon and Ron Shusett.

"I'll respectfully disagree with S.M about the original having been created with an insect related approach. The creature was the only thing about the film that was basically complete before anything movie related was set. It was in Giger's Necronomicon, which was shown to Ridley and the rest was history."

The Alien isn't identical to Necronom IV.  It was changed to what eventually became the final creature with influence from Ridley.  As for The Insect Influence - click here.

ali81

Member

32

Posted Feb-08-2017 1:55 PM

From: Dr.Swojd to You on: Feb-08-2017 1:34 PM

learn english u filthy shitskin

 

hahahahaha nice wee private message I just got. mustv touched a nerve

 

S.M

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 2:41 PM

White supremacists... there goes the neighbourhood.

ninXeno426

Member

195

Posted Feb-08-2017 3:09 PM

Dr.Swojd:Do you ever have anything constructive to say?

Would you Kindly?

ninXeno426

Member

195

Posted Feb-08-2017 3:17 PM

Hello BULL ALIEN and welcome!I must respectfully disagree.Aliens is my favorite movie so I'm more to a little biased towards it.But it's just fine that you don't.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.After all can't agree on the same thing.

Would you Kindly?

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Feb-08-2017 4:02 PM

Everyone has their own opinions..

But indeed as the years go by and we get older, i personally feel Aliens does not have that impact it did when i was younger,  Alien still keeps its Magic though, and i think Alien 3 grows on you after a while.

It would have been interesting to see what a different Alien sequel would have been like had Ridley Scott got the chance, but i think most of his ideas for such a venture we would be shown in the next few movies and certainly be the time Ridley Scott has finished his Alien Prequel series.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ash81

Member

1

Posted Feb-08-2017 4:12 PM

I disagree - partly.  In Aliens James Cameron's writing has never been better.  The decision to focus on Ripley really gave the franchise a level of emotional/human depth that it hasn't matched in any of the other movies or graphic novels.  I'm one of those who thinks the franchise IS  Ripley. That's why I'm hoping that Blomkamp's Alien 5 got knocked off because Scott is planning to re-incorporate Ripley into one of his prequel/sequels.  

However, one thing is for sure - the monster became less mysterious in Aliens.  That's where Cameron got it wrong.  He turned the thing into a bug instead of a mysterious intelligence.

Did you guys know that there were many plans for sequels/follow-ups to Alien before Cameron's got made?  They were actually planning to do a TV series follow-up to Alien!  Back then I think it would've been mediocre, but nowadays with TV being as good as it is, I would love to see a prolonged TV version following the events of Aliens.  That gritty & realistic sci fi world has so many different facets to explore.

Fire_Stream21

Member

5

Posted Feb-08-2017 4:47 PM

That is probably one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. Aliens was criticized as better then Alien by critics. It was action packed with a new set of amazing characters and the amazing badass xenomorph queen.

 

The reason why that though exists in the existence of thoughts is cause of alien 3 

S.M

Member

0

Posted Feb-08-2017 4:50 PM

"However, one thing is for sure - the monster became less mysterious in Aliens.  That's where Cameron got it wrong.  He turned the thing into a bug instead of a mysterious intelligence."

How did he turn it into a "bug"?

ninXeno426

Member

195

Posted Feb-08-2017 6:07 PM

Congratulations Dr.Swojd,you've officially ruined this topic.Sorry BULL ALIEN.

Would you Kindly?

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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