Let's Talk About Expectations
Posted Jan-06-2017 5:03 PM
So the forums have been pretty dry recently as we are reaching the expected winter doldrum, so I wanted to ask you guys: what are your expectations for this film? High or Low? Also, what aspect are you looking forward to most in the film? For me, it's definitely the Neomorphs! I'm fascinated by them: their design, their characteristics, their behavior, etc. What about you guys? Let's keep the discussions rolling! Make this winter doldrum more bearable
Posted Jan-06-2017 5:28 PM
Good question! Right now I have pretty high expectations. What I really want to see:
1. David's overall story arch
2. How the spores, goo and David stir up the xeno, neo proto, or whatever it will be called
3. The roles of the Engineers- the suited ones and plainer ones in the Prometheus intro- if there are any big differences
What I don't wish to see- a King Xeno
Posted Jan-06-2017 5:34 PM
I am going to go into it with LOW exceptions... that way the Movie can only Surprise us a lot.. or disappoint a bit.
I think in Hindsight and due to negative feed back from Prometheus and excitment with Alien 5... they have decided to tone down and distance from the Engineers, Shaw and those questions and reasons...
And give fans more about what they expected from Prometheus in the first place... that was Xenomorphs and how they came to be and the Derelict/Space Jockey.
I hope they dont forget about what Prometheus was trying to do... but we can only hope...
I think they are trying to please the Prometheus fans a bit... but trying to cater for the Alien fans.. and teasing a Big Big Alien film for them... but i think it may fail to deliver on what the Alien fans want.... and also disappoint Prometheus ones..
Maybe they got it right and can please both sets of fans?
Maybe it would disappoint both?
Maybe it please one set a bit and disappoint the other a bit... but a sequel can gauge the reactions and then explore the best route to take.... But Sadly i think it would be the route that they feel would make more $$$$$$
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Jan-06-2017 5:48 PM
My expectations are also pretty high as i have been waiting for this for a while now.For a while i couldnt decide what i wanted more Blomkamps 5,or Prometheus 2 then this started to take shape so Alien Covenant became my number 1 priority.As for what i dont really know.I think its better with not alot of expectations that way it has more potential to suprise.Thats how i handled Prometheus.I didn't really know what to expect thanks to the whole don't call it a prequel campaign.My first glimpse at the film was its art book and what i saw blew my mind because it wasn't at all what i expected.
Posted Jan-06-2017 6:36 PM
i would say that, the 4chan leaks... which wont say in case those not read them.... gave me concerns... but alas the Trailer was not out then...
I hung on hope with if you read between the lines Wayne Haags interview... with Ridleys comments in the past.. that there is more to it.. holding out hope the Source i had information is somewhat true.... and not the HORROR that the 4Chan leak could be...
Then we had the Trailer, and Stills and Ridleys comment and i have calmed down a bit now ;)
But i still think there is element of disappointment and so i am going in with low expectations... i did this with Rogue One and left pleased..... i went into Force Awakens with Hope.. and left Disappointed..
So i am not expecting a massive great movie... and maybe i can be surprised ;)
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Jan-06-2017 7:50 PM
Great responses! I actually watched Prometheus knowing it was a prequel, but at that point I wasn't a deep fan of the franchise and I enjoyed the loose connections it had, while still very much setting itself up for Alien bits. Because of this I was able to fall in love with the film. I'll admit after I heard about the concept art and the different drafts, I would've liked to see those on screen, however I AM pleased with what we got. So when I heard that AC was coming, and that it would have the scope and "feel" of Prometheus, with the claustrophobia and critters of Alien, I got VERY excited. I happen to enjoy many of Ridley's films (even Robin Hood!) so I THINK I'll be happy with what we get in AC. As I mentioned earlier I love the concept art for Prometheus, so when I heard they were using the Beluga designs for what we now know as the Neomorphs, I became even more elated!
Posted Jan-06-2017 8:20 PM
I remember how high my expectations where set with even the Prometheus trailer...
"...They went looking for our beginning..."
"...What they found will be our end..."
...but the film itself was a come-down for me, nevermind a let down.
If my posts haven't given it away, I am going in with low expectations. As BigDave says, that way you can't be disappointed.
The aspect I'm looking forward to most is the dude-wheres-my-elisabeth-shaw conundrum being tackled.
Posted Jan-06-2017 9:18 PM
I can't help but feel that my expectations are very high again despite my disappointment with Prometheus.
I absolutely loved the AC trailer; the planet looks as beautiful as dangerous and we probably and finally get to witness David's true intentions, one of the many stupid question marks in Prometheus.
He's the most interesting character imo, partly because of Fassbender's absolutely incredible acting skills.
Posted Jan-08-2017 6:46 AM
I try to keep my expectations low because in that way the bigger the chances are that I will be more pleased with what we will get. Big expectations usually lead to disappointment. The two things that I really want from this movie is better characters compared to Prometheus and a better Xeno connection. Maybe the movie won’t be the best of this year but at least Shaw isn’t in it.
Posted Jan-08-2017 9:39 AM
It's hard for me not to have high expectations for Covenant. However, my main concern would be that Fox have put too much presssure on Scott to focus more on the "Alien" aspect and less on the "Prometheus" aspects. I was one of the ones who thoroughly enjoyed Prometheus and to this day find myself discovering things I hadn't before. I want that kind of outcome from Alien: Covenant.
I definitely want to see more of David and his story arch as well. I want to learn more about the Black Goo and the Engineer race. The one thing I'm least excited for, ironically, is the Xenomorph itself.
Posted Jan-08-2017 10:21 AM
What David has been up to and his Intentions
David's interaction with Walter, what Walters plan / Instructions are
I hoping it will tee up the next film in a balanced manner and leave us wanting more
I hope I feel for most the new crew as I did for Alien / Aliens, as let's face it who cared for 75% of the Prometheus crew?
I hope AC captures some of the tension and darkness of the original film, but I'm not expecting it to dethrone the masterpiece that is Alien
Posted Jan-08-2017 11:03 AM
I am super excited to find out what David's true intentions are, he's definitely a key figure in the story.
As for Prometheus I couldn't agree more because that crew was a bunch of goofheads, I couldn't help but feel that they would kill themselves out of sheer stupidity sooner or later.
Posted Jan-08-2017 1:58 PM
Low expectations is impossible for me after that trailer, but I have to make sure I don't go thinking they will tell the story I made up in my head. I have to let them tell their story. If they tell it well, I'm happy, if poorly, I'm disappointed.
So instead of low expectations, closer to no expectations
Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!
Posted Jan-08-2017 3:17 PM
We cant be 100% sure whats gone down... but yes FOX did seem to want to distant themselves from Alien a bit after Spaights Draft.... for me the Perfect Prequel was not Straight draft only if you want to please Fanboys...
Lindeloffs was the Perfect set up... just needed someone else to come in and tidy it up and change a few bits like maybe Logan has done with Paglen/Green's Prometheus 2 drafts.
I still think this movie could end up disappointing some Alien fans and Prometheus, i think especially the Camerons Aliens fans...
Especially if the movie is very close to the 4Chan leak that many now take as 100% Legit.... erm... hopefully i can disprove that to not be the case.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Jan-09-2017 4:36 AM
I personally want to delve deeper into the engineers mythology and how they came across the black ooze...how they tie into the original space jockey etc...what Davids real intentions are what's his endgame...how these spores/the black ooze etc tie into the xeno we know from alien...I don't want everything answered but I don't want to see a mess ( plotholes , inconsistency and no ruining of alien universe timeline I.e people coming up with David being reason the original xeno being biomechanical....this would not fit timelines between films and is a copout)
Posted Jan-11-2017 7:54 AM
I totally disagree that Lindeloff did the perfect draft. There was still the “It is what I choose to believe “-thing by Shaw which makes her stupid. She also believes that it is an invitation in his draft, another dumb thing that was in the movie which made me go “does she really believe in that shit that she is saying? She is an idiot.”
There was a part in Lindelofs draft where Holloway say something like “what we believe doesn’t matter, what we can prove does” (something like that) but they cut it out so that was one dumb character (Shaw) plus bad editing.
Speaking of Holloway he was still a dick to David, something that I didn’t like. Holloway seemed a lot more interesting in the draft that Spaights did.
Milburn and Fifield still seemed boring but not as bad as in the movie. They still got lost in the draft and no explanation as I could see so they were still dumb.
There was still too little of the Xenos in the draft, something that I didn’t like. It was also about Weyland wanting more life, something that I didn’t care for.
Shaw still believe that the Engineers made them, without anything to back it up. Sorry but she is stupid in Lindeloffs draft.
Millburn and Fifield getting stoned in space was also in the draft, to me that was just bad. There is no defense for that. This was in Lindelof’s draft, it is just lazy writing in my opinion. They still played around with the Centipede which was dumb, you don’t do that with an unknown life form if you are a scientist and is somewhat rational. I don’t care if they explain it that he was stoned. Sorry but that scene should have been re-written or taken out totally.
Ravel and Chance didn’t make sense either, they are just there for no reason in Lindelof’s draft. Ford didn’t make a lot of sense either. Not that it would be interesting to see Weyland corporation being exact the same as in alien 1-4 but they could have made that better.
Weyland wasn’t interesting either in Lindelof’s draft he just wanted to be given more life so what ever. This is something that I didn’t care for and still don’t.
There were some scenes in Lindelof’s draft that were not filmed or cut out but I still believe that Spaights did a better job.
When the Engineer spoke back to them it still didn’t say anything about any sub-titles what so ever in Lindelof’s draft, which just makes it stupid.
The movie was reduced to be more about the Engineers in Lindelof’s draft instead of the Xeno which made it less interesting. Without a better connection to the Xenos the Engineers become boring and that is exactly what happened in Lindelof’s draft. I am not sure if he wanted to have the Xeno more involved in the movie (hence Fox forced him to tone it down) or if he wanted it less featured. Nevertheless the draft that Lindelof did had very little Xenos in it which made it boring.
Spaight’s also made the characters a lot more interesting (I compare Lindelof’s version to the original draft by Spaights). The dialogue also seemed to roll better, it seems better compared to Lindelof. Also Weyland seemed to be way more interesting in part because of the way that the dialogue was written compared to Lindeloff.
When Fifield and Milburn gets creeped out by the Hologram of the Engineers it is not like “yes ship is very good” it is more like “I wasn’t payed for this if you want help with X sure but not this” (about the running engineers in the recording). The dialogue is a lot better here than in the final movie.
This is a scene that really bugs me that is when they find the Hammerpede. In Spaight’s script they said something about the space suits being bug proof so they should be protected. In Lindelof’s draft they are kind of joking about it like it would be a cute little cat or something without any thought what so ever that it might be dangerous. Once again Lindelof’s draft was inferior to Spaight’s. It is just really annoying to compare them both when I see how Lindelof started to make it worse.
David was made better in Lindelof’s draft, in Spaight’s he was more like Ash. I like that they made David less evil.
They had no sub-titles in the scene when David speaks to the engineer, that was in Lindelof’s draft (Paradise final) just for some mystery thing I guess. Without the sub-titles it just gets stupid and even Lindelof had no sub-titles in his draft so yes I think that Lindelof should get complaints about making the original draft worse. He just put that in for some stupid mystery it seems to me.
There was less religion in Spaight’s script compared to Lindelof. Here is another thing that I found more interesting in Spaights script. To me Alien has never been about religion, leave it as a slasher in space that is more interesting and simple. I believe that it is a better chance to get a movie out of a slasher in space than if you drag a lot of big themes in it because the idea seems interesting but it gets very difficult to make it look good on film.
In Spaight’s draft Watts (Shaw) fights a huge alien in the end, in Lindelof’s draft we get the Deacon. The Deacon was alright in Prometheus since that was the closest to the Xeno that we got but compared to Spaight’s draft it was a disappointment.
I know that it is about personal taste but I would rather have had Spaight’s draft made to a movie than Lindelof’s because of better characters, better connection to the Xeno, less religion, for example. Lindelof reduced the role of the Xeno and expanded the role of the Engineers which was a mistake because I am far more interested to know how the Xenos came to be than about the culture of the engineers. Engineers withs atronger connection to the Xeno could be interesting but to have 85% Engineers and 15% Xeno ruins it for me and Lindelof’s draft seemed to do that but I also blame Fox for being assholes.
Posted Jan-11-2017 8:18 AM
I just hope that they don't kill Shaw off in the very beginning of the movie.
I hope that Shaw survives into the next movie, or is turned into a giant monster that makes the eggs. (this will make Shaw a very important part of the story, and this would explain where the eggs come from.)
Obsession is power, not a curse.
Posted Jan-11-2017 4:18 PM
"“It is what I choose to believe “-thing by Shaw which makes her stupid"
Thoughts_Dreams indeed as you said the draft had a better explanation, it was the movie and who took Lindeloffs ideas and changed them that is to blame...
As far as Shaw being stupid.. i dont want to get to involved or upset people.. but there are people in this World... who if a Alien Race came down and proved they created us... or we proved Evolution was 100% correct.. there are people who would Fanatically choose to not believe it... Sadly some Religious folk take that stance. But thats their free-will.
I think when Ridley went to touch upon themes of Gods/Life and Death etc... he did back himself into a corner... and it was a route that some Alien fans felt was taking away the Story from who the Space Jockey and Eggs was.
We have many sets of Fans, and each is entitled to their own opinions...
I think the ideas behind Prometheus are Fantastic.. more so than the seen on Screen, Comics and Books Xenomorphs... But i think indeed trying to Merge the TWO has been problematic.
In hindsight Prometheus should have been its own Movie and to not tie in to Alien which includes Weyland etc too.
But then its a case of what route to go to explain the Xeno.. and maybe for many fans the more Basic route which would have been the Space Jockey is just a Alien Race not connected to Earth, involved in some War.. that fell victim to his deadly Cargo.
Going the route these Space Jockeys are who Ancient Man saw as Gods and who played a part in creating us, while interesting is a Plot that has Fragmented the Fanbase a little.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Jan-11-2017 4:28 PM
Lindeloffs draft with Fifield and Milburn was not so stupid as the Final Cut we got.. i think his draft needed some one to tidy it up.... but a lot was butchered in the Cut of the movie and how the Draft evolved to a shooting one.
I felt Shaw was a character they could expand... she choose to believe what she wants... i think they could have then had her get some answers that are totally horrific.. that would then have her have to give up her believes.. And find out that there is No God... and in replacement we are just pawns for some dark horrific Agenda... that is truely terrifying and totally against the teachings of what many Folk would assume the Devine Creators would be..
I feel they have missed the ball with this and are now giving Alien Fans want they want... which is fine if its done right.
My biggest fear is they are turning this now into a Star Wars... now i Love Star Wars... but i dont want to see Alien Franchise follow suit... i.e have Alien to Aliens then Alien 5 (as replaces Alien 3 and Alien R) be about Ripley.
With the new Alien Prequels to be about Daniels who is Ripleys Mother and show us in the next movie a Young 12 year old Ripley..... Then see Alien 5 we have Ripley who is now Newts Adopted mother. pass the Torch to Newt to be the new Ripley for a 3rd set of Alien Sequels..
No Thank You.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Jan-15-2017 1:46 PM
I have heard that Ridley Scott usually wanted to make a film with full new elements. Instead Fox requested already known elements such as eggs and facehuggers, maybe to better satisfy fan groups which were already waiting for Alien 5.
That is Hollywood which does not trust in complete new story lines anymore.
Let us see how Scott will hopefully integrate new and old elements to a fascinating plot.
Posted Jan-18-2017 7:33 AM
Maybe not but it was better when Spaights did it. I agree that a lot got messed up when they edited it like the Fifield zombie or that they removed when M an F found a small alien worm and it went fine.
Shaw should have been totally re-written (as with many other of the characters in this movie) so she would at least have some likable qualities about her. I don’t understand how they failed so miserably with her. As far as horrific answers that should had stayed in Prometheus which should had make her scared shitless, serves her right. My biggest complaint is that they didn’t seem to have given her some sort of rationality so once again bad writing.
As far as being tied to Alien I think that wouldn’t have mattered because that was not the problem. The problems were lame characters, and so on.
Sure it is their free will to believe it or not but there is no excuse for being irrational. They can choose to believe what ever but I can also choose to or not to believe that they are stupid.
I am not sad at all that they get rid of Shaw and sort of write her out, I am sort of happy about that. Maybe they could have made her better in AC but she was so badly done in Prometheus so I find it difficult to see how they could have made her better. Small problems can maybe be fixed but she was too much of a problem to get solved.
As far as Ripley I hope that they won’t include any clues to her in AC but we will see about that. This is after all the same company that allowed to release the Lindelof butchered version of Prometheus. There are different characters that interact that make the Alien movies interesting even though I understand why some consider it to be about her.
Exactly when getting these big themes, they went too far from what it should have been, namely a prequel to Alien. It is difficult enough to make a movie based on those and then to mix it with Alien is more complicated. Yes they took it away from the SJ and the monsters.
Its own or not it would maybe have had its problems no matter if it would have been tied to Alien or not. The same can be said about the Phantom Menace, it would have been a movie under average even though it would not have been connected to Star Wars.
“the more Basic route which would have been the Space Jockey is just a Alien Race not connected to Earth, involved in some War.. that fell victim to his deadly Cargo.”
This is what I would have preferred since it seems more Alien-y. Just because it is connected to Alien doesn’t make it good because if that would have been the case then the AvP would have been good also, or AR.
Yes that could have been preferred (about Shaw) but they should have made her better from the beginning. She was better written in Spaight’s draft. It would be interesting if these Gods (Engineers) are closer to devils since that could explain the Xeno better.
Hopefully Daniels would have got nothing to do with Ripley. The problem wasn’t the lack of a Ripley connection but then I don’t know how they think at Fox. I am not sure if AR would have needed the Ripley clone because they could have made that better. Alien 3 wouldn’t have needed Ripley either but she was done in sort of an interesting way. She was just a part of it but her role could have been reduced while giving other women important roles.
Posted Jan-18-2017 10:03 AM
Apart from hoping for a film full of suspense and atmosphere (which Scott is indeed capable of creating), I’m very much interested in David’s part in the story. The singer Aurora performs the song “Nature Boy” (about a lonely boy) which might refer to David (who has his own questions).
I also wonder about the theme of the story. In Prometheus it was about hubris, and like the ancient titan, and Adam and Eve in Paradise, the strive for The Tree of Knowledge and The Tree of Life (Peter Weyland, and Shaw).
In AC, the name of the spacecraft is Covenant and a group of colonizers are leaving Mother Earth never to return and build A Brave New World (Weyland Yutani: Building better worlds). What is the meaning of this “covenant”? Is it between the colonizers and Weyland Corp? Between the human race and the engineers? Between the engineers and . . .
Or is it something else?
Posted Jan-18-2017 11:12 AM
I also hope for a better characterisation where you get a feel for the characters and what happens to them, like in Alien. Aliens was also good when it comes to characters. You could sympathise with (or hate) all of them. Prometheus didn't quite succeed here, I'm afraid.
Posted Jan-23-2017 2:52 PM
Ridley knows exactly what needs to be covered.
Further Prometheus exposition, regarding the fate of the Engineers and Elders. A whole lot of David ie what he has been up to with his new found knowledge, the resultant offspring leading to ALIEN style scares. Shaw’s transformation/becoming!
COVENANT and its sequel/s are going to come full circle. Riffing early Giger concepts, juxtaposed with MOEBIUS retro-futuristic styling for the human elements.
Hopefully all adding up to a Sci-fi classic!
"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger
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