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David did not create the Xeno

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Brian51

Dec-27-2016 8:36 AM

Ive seen a few posts and chats regarding David being the creator of the xeno. 

I don't see how this can be considered since the xeno is on a mural in the ship in Prometheus, AND the original spacejockey from Alien who had a chestburster pop out of him, was discovered already 'fossilized' etc seen in Alien.  Am I missing something? 

 

35 Responses to David did not create the Xeno

Shasta cyclone

Dec-27-2016 11:00 AM

I agree with you. But I do think he awakens it but on a different planet of course.

 

Starlogger

Dec-27-2016 11:22 AM

This whole "Black Goo" mess is just that...a mess. Is all that stuff just a red herring when it comes to "manufacturing" a "classic Xeno"? That organism had to be somewhere "in nature", don't you think?

Myrddin365

Dec-27-2016 11:42 AM

I think the "black goo" is an opposing engineer faction's attempt to copy the Xenos ability to adjust its DNA based on the host only instead of adjusting to the host it turns the host into some form of the Xeno's life cycle.  That appears to have failed spectacularly

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Earle2212

Dec-27-2016 12:45 PM

My apologies to those who have read these thoughts from me, however, here's my opinion:

The Alien was an insect discovered on another planet.

The insect impregnated an Engineer.

This was a miracle because the Engineers had lost the ability to reproduce.

The mural in Prometheus depicts the miracle birth. Notice the outstretched arms, similar to Jesus on the cross. 

The Engineers used the Alien blood to seed life on other planets.

When the original blood had been exhausted, the Engineers modified the blood into the deadly Black Goo, which destroyed them. 

Ultimately, the Engineers were punished by trying to play God.

 

Myrddin365

Dec-27-2016 1:38 PM

I think the Xenos are too much of an aggressive, hostile species to be anything but bioweapons or guardians, if one can convince them not to attack or impregnate them.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Aorta

Dec-27-2016 3:07 PM

I don't think David created the MORB. I think he has discovered that the liquid and the MORB are one, and he's either found, or is looking for, a way to reproduce the cycle.

I'm sure he'll be delighted to learn that there are almost 200 humans in orbit, and be looking for a way up there. 

Shasta cyclone

Dec-27-2016 3:12 PM

@earle2212

according weyland yutani corp

the black goo is a chemical. But it could have started out like your idea which is a good one.

it being a chemical could also explain the acid for blood defense mechanism what ever it infects

Starlogger

Dec-27-2016 3:21 PM

Not fond of the whole "black goo" thing. It's kind of like Zombies---i.e., they're EVERYWHERE and universally just represent "something bad" without fleshing out a true idea and what the "badness/evil" really is. There had better be a damned good reason for it to exist in the Alien Canon.

Brian51

Dec-27-2016 3:33 PM

Agreed. the second I saw the goo in Prometheus i was waiting for Mulder and Scully to bust in.

BigDave

Dec-27-2016 4:49 PM

@Myrddin365

Indeed this is a interesting trait of the Xenomorph and maybe its something they tried to harness from the Xeno (or its Origin) so that this trait could aid with the Engineers ambitions to Genetically alter Life.

Or it could be the Xeno gets these traits from something the Engineers used to Genetically alter life.

@Earle2212

Interesting theory one that has been discussed a bit before, well similar and it would indeed be a very interesting Plot..  I think that the Basics of such a theory could indeed had been what was going on... certainly a theory that i was behind as a logical conclusion after Prometheus.

@Myrddin365

Indeed the Xeno does seem to be a species that relies on instinct and a Agenda to procreate its kind, they are intelligent though, i think they make a flawed Bio-Weapon myself... but maybe the could be the result of a Flaw in a Previous Bio-Weapon... i think Prometheus was hinting at such.

@Aorta

I agree, having David create the Xenomorph in Alien would be bland, its hinting at such a thing through clues but i feel they are a Red Herring.... but this does not mean he cant Re-Create it... but i would like to still think those Eggs on the Derelict have been there for Thousands of Years and are connected to the Outbreak on LV-223 and reasons we never saw many Engineers on LV-223 and maybe none left on Paradise.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Myrddin365

Dec-27-2016 7:56 PM

They are a perfect bioweapon if they don't attack the ones who would deploy them. That's the rub, they are too aggressive, hostile, and intelligent to be controlled. You pretty much want to glass any planet they are found on to ensure that they don't spread. But if they won't attack or impregnate you then they are a self propagating bioweapon. Just land on the planet and collect the eggs and you're good to go for the next war.

Here's a brain tickler. What if the engineers SERVE the hive queens by flinging their eggs across the galaxy? There is definitely an attitude bordering on worship toward the Xenos in that mural.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

ZenaO

Dec-30-2016 2:00 AM

I agree with you completely. It could possibly be created on separate occasions though.

Myrddin365

Dec-30-2016 1:54 PM

@Big Dave I always saw the Engineers on Prometheus as a faction that opposed the Engineers who seeded earth at the beginning of the movie. 

It's hard to understand their desire to wipe us all out with black goo, but something just came to me. This faction hates the Xenos. Saw the others sending a juggernaut full of eggs to earth, so they shot it down over LV-426 and tried to scramble a ship of their bioweapon to wipe us out before the others could send more eggs, but all hell breaks loose. Maybe they hate us because we only exist to make more Xenos...

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Chris

Dec-31-2016 9:12 AM

@Earle2212, I like that theory!

It's unlikely David creates the Xenomorph, however he could alter and tamper with the existing Protomorph biology to a point where the byproduct is the Xeno we're familiar with.

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 12:49 PM

With the Creation... it depends how the Xeno is created...

If it is not the Original Origin for the Black Goo.. and no other Organism related predates it.....  Then the option is there to re-create it.

i am a bit busy now... but i will cover the potential reasons for our destruction....  Here is a few options.

1) We was created to replace the Engineers for some purpose and Agenda...  either by the Engineers to take up there toil.. or by those who created the Engineers as their successors.

The Engineers then overthrown their Hierarchy and began to then subducate Mankind to worship them... maybe they rescued us from Bondage... then as rewards they pretended they was our Gods... When we rebel and start to not serve them.... they then decide to use the Bio-Weapons.

2) This can be separate or even play part of the above... The Engineers have stolen the Fire to create or tamper with life that is not intended as far as the Hierarchy (this can fit with the above First option).

There experiments then accidentally create something, or they are handed down a punishment that back fires and does not kill them off... but changes some of them into something else....

These Engineers then see this as a means of Perfection.. and they worship it for its traits and re-weaponize and experiment upon it and turn it against their Hierarchy....  then they find out that Mankind is rebellious... and these Engineers now wanting to further push Evolution of Perfection see the Mural Deacon DNA as being Perfect base to upgrade and evolve life and not their Engineer DNA and so they use this Mural DNA to then reset and evolve life on Earth.

They could worship the Deacon... if at some point Females was taken away from them.... or ability to procreate... and either by Punishment or Accident... the Organisms that lead to experiments to create the Deacon provided these Engineers a perverted way to Birth Offspring..

I feel some of these points could very well be at play.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

oduodu

Dec-31-2016 4:30 PM

Based on test screening 
Leaks its a fair bet 
That  David is responsible 
For the xeno as we see it in 
Alien.

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 6:52 PM

Based on the Test Screening... there are more Plot Holes than Prometheus lol...

Its pretty ambigious as to what we shall see so far...

We have the AVPGalaxy crowd well some who strand by the 4chan leaks... which i called BS... Trailer came out and other shots that with others make it flawed... the one IMDB guy who named Walter before the movie.. has added that the 4chan is correct... which maybe adds some weight..

The 4chan leak is a total cop out and would mean AC has done to Prometheus worse than AVPR and Alien R had done to AVP and Alien 3 etc.

Ridley Scotts comments all along, including his latest, and Wayne Haag interview seem to be more closer to the Source i had..

And the Source i had, which i passed on had information in depth about lots of stuff as of February/March 2015 that just keeps on being matched up with each official image and leak we get....

some stuff i have been asked to withheld.. but Chris knows...  includes the intended Xeno Origin...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

oduodu

Dec-31-2016 11:06 PM

Dave I hope you are right
About the xeno origin 
Not being David's doing. 

Deep Space

Jan-01-2017 4:44 AM

Just a quick response to many of the ideas here:

I believe the xeno as we see in ALIEN is old.  It has to be unless the whole narrative has been incorrect . . . (I'd be very disappointed if that isn't the case, not just as a geeky fan; but because I feel it would cheapen the whole story)

The derelict on LV426 is old - probably around 2000 years old and I believe it to be related to the events on LV223.  Most likely an attempt to get the eggs, or whatever created them, away from the engineers or an attempt to transport them to Earth that went wrong . . .

That said, I believe we will see how the ALIEN xeno came to be in AC.  i.e. it can be recreated with the tools and knowledge, which David seems to have.

I just put this on another thread but perhaps the origin of the goo is microbial?  i.e. what if the engineers came across a virus or bacterial strain that mutated the infected at a genetic level?  Like E-bola . . .

Perhaps this was reverse engineered or manipulated so it could be used in a weopanised form.  If you looked at the original organism attack cells it would appear to be very much like watching a full grown xeno.  Maybe the engineers made it 'big'?

Goddamn Tropics in here

Jan-01-2017 7:34 AM

David has had 10 years to tamper with Engineers technology/ maps, he could have gone back to 223 before the planet in AC. Yes the Derelict seems to be 2000 years old and the Engineers worshiped some type of Xeno, but were the eggs in or just below the Derelict 2000 years old?The Xeno in Alien is part Bio-mechanical, so at some point David /Walter would need to be part of this evolution to the Xeno Ash was so proud and in admiration of?

Shasta cyclone

Jan-01-2017 12:42 PM

The eggs could have grown inside the juggernaut ship in alien.( to give the original xeno)...and let's say it was David or shaw who some how got into a biomechanical suit and a time travel senerio  .they would need another ship. Because the one David/shaw seems to crash land and the one in alien are two totally different ships ( in structural design)

Myrddin365

Jan-01-2017 1:25 PM

Biomechanics is how engineers roll. It's their entire technology. Wonder if the black goo is derived from how Queens make eggs.

Egg morphing was something that RS had no problem believing could coincide with the Queen concept. I think he said that on the Alien special edition DVD commentary.  The argument could be made that the Prometheus mural actually depicts egg morphing. Though it's a bit stylized and difficult to make out, so up for interpretation. To the left and right of the central xeno you see humans in fetal positions appear to be melting into an egg shape. 

I could be reaching, but what if the Xenos have ALWAYS been turning us into eggs, and the queen produces something like human genetic material to inject with her retroviral catalyst to produce a new one in the sack. We are biomass for her hive. So it becomes who came first, the Queen or the Engineer.

I can see a group of Engineers rebelling against breeding more biomass for an organism that uses them like incubators as well. So they create their own version of goo trying to reverse engineer and eradicate the Xenos and the lesser chattel (us).

The life cycle of the Xeno never really fit as a bioweapon. The drones are too hard to catch and transport. The queen doubly so. The eggs awkward to deliver.  The Xenos aren't manufactured for the Engineer race. They manufacture us for the Xenos.

The Reaper Faction is clearly the one that rebels. They decide to wipe us out so that we don't become a planet wide Xeno hive.

It takes a certain level of population to justify a certain level of technology. Once we've accomplished FTL the population is probably in the billions so they point us to 223. When we arrive, the sowers say "Take this back to your planet it is your true purpose" and hand over eggs for us to take back. The infestation spreads quickly after that.

The reapers round up the eggs. The design of their exosuits even makes face hugging unlikely once they are in them, but the goo didn't care about the suits when they lost containment.

 

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Goddamn Tropics in here

Jan-01-2017 1:45 PM

I just feel that to produce the Xeno in Alien it looks like it will need android elements to complete the job. Now there are 2 androids in AC, I can see one being victim to the final egg process, then to complete the story arc the remaing android goes back to the Derelict and placing the eggs and await the next victims, just my theory on how it could pan out

alex9

Jan-01-2017 10:23 PM

What if the engineers have advanced to the point where they have acheived the singularity, ie, they are essentially immortal because they have transferred their essence into a living machine body.   The LV223 engineers are much more biomechanical looking than the sacrificial engineer, so if one of those guys got facehugged, could it produce the xeno we saw in Alien.   IDK, but it's worth thinking about any way.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-02-2017 3:20 AM

I wonder if there are different ways that the Xeno can be created and that it has been done before? If David re-creates the Xeno then he isn’t the one that gave birth to it first, I think that could be an interesting thing. The idea of David being the one that created it first is nothing that I like so I hope that isn’t the case.

Myrddin365

Jan-02-2017 7:33 AM

I don't think David creates anything, he just turns it loose.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Goddamn Tropics in here

Jan-02-2017 8:41 AM

David's tampering in Prometheus ultimately resulted in the Deacon, with the knowledge,time and vehicle he now has at his disposal, I feel the final mix to produce the Xeno egg / hugger in Alien will have a lot to do with him or Walter. I'm sure in 1979 Ridders gave no thought to having to link this all up, however he's now 'quoted'that he will. I'm a massive fan of the orininal Jockey and its mystery and I do hope it gets the tie in it deserves, I just feel he will go with synthetic tampering to produce this particular string of Xeno that everyone wants to get their hands on

Myrddin365

Jan-02-2017 9:18 AM

Fun fact: there's no WAY the egg chamber is part of the derelict. My best explanation: it's an existing repository that the derelict crashed into. 

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Goddamn Tropics in here

Jan-02-2017 9:50 AM

@Myrddin365

Ive always thought underneath the Derelict, what better place to store your perfected eggs with a huge Derelict Flag on top of it, that's if you wanted someone else to find them in the future?

Myrddin365

Jan-02-2017 10:17 AM

It's one of those frustrating things you don't think about until later, and then you're like... Wait... How did that get there? Cuz it looks like the engineers built the egg cavern, too.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

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