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Another undeciphered distress call?

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Myrddin365

Dec-25-2016 1:55 PM

From the trailer we can infer a few things. If David sent the distress call, it could be because Shaw was alive when it was sent and he wanted to get her out of there. He would have no reason to bring people there, other wise.  The implication has been that they were surprised to find him anyway.

It is either exceedingly brief, or is indecipherable because they "don't know what the f*** is out there." When Daniels makes sure the Captain wants to go.

1: Did David send it? Why? 

2: Did Shaw send it? Did she live long afterwards?

3: Do all Juggernauts broadcast the same message when their xenocargoes are compromised as an automatic fail safe? Is that the transmission they receive?

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

70 Responses to Another undeciphered distress call?

DirtWolf

Dec-25-2016 11:37 PM

My guess is Shaw sent it to possibly be rescued.  If Shaw died and then David sent it, my guess is he really is up to some shady stuff, possibly still carrying out experiments for Weyland corp, or out of sheer curiosity of what experiments he could conduct on humans.  Maybe he experimented on Shaw then wanted to take it further.  

Not sure about the Juggernaut.  That is actually a good question!

Myrddin365

Dec-27-2016 6:35 AM

The main question, really, is who was responsible for Shaw's fate. And who sent the signal.  One thing keeps nagging at me, though. Were they heading to Paradise already and got the signal, or were they on their way somewhere else? I've heard both versions.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

LV426Qeen

Jan-03-2017 12:30 PM

I think this could be LV-426 based upon the side by side pictures.  If the Covenant did terraforming, and altered the recipe, they could have destroyed this world and left it barren.  There are similarities to the 1979 juggernaut and the Covenant juggernaut.  Mountains of green beyond the ship are (in 1979 version) still there but lifeless.  Trees in front of the juggernaut are (in 1979 version) merely rock formations.  Thoughts?

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 1:01 PM

Wherever Shaw and David went requires hyperspace flight to get there. 

LV-223 and LV-426 orbit the same gas giant. No hyperspace necessary.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Tiwaz

Jan-03-2017 1:39 PM

@Myrddin365

If they went to hyperspace. As we all know, in the alien universe anything that can go wrong will for sure do so. ;P

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 1:46 PM

Indeed, but based on the Peter Weyland files on the Blu ray, the derelict was transmitting it's distress call before Prometheus left. It's been there at least since then. Whatever ship that is, it isn't on LV-426

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Tiwaz

Jan-03-2017 1:52 PM

Ah right. My bad. I forgot bout that one. Let's just hope they don't come up some timetravel mumbo jumbo....

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-03-2017 2:01 PM

LV426Qeen,

This is exactly what I thought when I first saw the trailer. I even made a comparison image just like the one you included.

It's definitely a similar shot of an identical ship. The mountain range behind the ship also looks the same. Also, I can't help but notice the protagonist of AC has been specified as the ship's terraforming expert.

With that in mind, something else I find interesting is that both Alien and Prometheus (1st movie of each franchise) had the final showdown take place in a lifeboat ship. In both movies the protagonist secures a victory by smashing their fist into a button, both to open a door which led to both antagonists' demise. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of harkening back is done with AC to Aliens. In Aliens, the protagonist brings about a planet-wide event (nuclear destruction) to deal with the creatures (of which there were many). In AC we have a similar threat where the entire planet appears to be infected with the black goo. It would make sense we'd see our terraforming protagonist attempt to make the planet inhospitable to the black goo (and she may well do it). To be honest, all it would take is the ability to replicate the effects of a nuclear winter and you'd basically have something that would probably look a lot like LV426 did in Alien. After all, nukes/nuclear radiation can send organic matter into a fossilized state, including trees and (dare I say?) Space Jockey's.

Either way, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ridley chose to make Paradise the pre-terraformed/pre-nuked LV426. At the very least, there is enough circumstantial evidence present to ask the question.


Myrddin365

In regards to your response, you make a valid point, though I could honestly see Ridley sacrificing the consistency of these small details (the hyperspace aspect/Weyland files) to make the larger plot devices work. He's done it before and I can't imagine him being afraid to do it again.

dk

Jan-03-2017 2:35 PM

Myrddin365

"Were they heading to Paradise already and got the signal, or were they on their way somewhere else?"  I am thinking they may have been heading elsewhere, since when they were on the planet, Daniels stated that they didn't know what was out there. It seems if they landed where they intended to go that she wouldn't have said that. It may also be possible that they landed at the intended destination but something happened afterward causing their safety to come into question.

 

S.M

Jan-03-2017 2:48 PM

As the above pictures show, the Derelict and Juggernaut look quite different and there's a huge mountain behind the Juggernaut and not behind the Derelict.

Additionally, did I miss the bit in the trailer that indicates David sent a distress call?

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 3:49 PM

@ QueenElizabethShaw

Those are interesting possibilities. They've been teasing us with crashed Juggernauts since prometheus, so this looks like more of the same. I suppose Daniels could land all of their atmosphere processing gear set to overload the fusion reactors immediately, but that seems... Probable only if they have enough crew left after their dealings with the Xenos and Neos to execute it.

@dk it's just one of those things that's been communicated both ways. "We're gonna colonize this planet. Wait why is there a signal coming from it?" And "we're gonna colonize THAT planet, but there's a signal coming from THIS one, so the company says we have to check it out."

@S.M. they never even mention a signal specifically in the trailer, and the most you may see of David is him walking toward the camera in an Engineer cloak.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Jan-03-2017 4:02 PM

Are we certain that isn't Walter?

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 4:04 PM

Nope, that's why I said MAY.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

dk

Jan-03-2017 4:04 PM

@SM-

That might be the one ace in the hole regarding leaks and rumors- we can't be sure. I like that.

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-03-2017 4:11 PM

S.M,

The ships don't look that different to me aside from the angle of the camera shot. The derelict may look a teeny bit longer but that could be chalked up to Ridley not giving a crap about replicating to the exact dimensions.

Also, I can't say with certainty there isn't a mountain behind the derelict. The first time I compared the two I determined there was enough visible through the fog to say the mountain could in fact be there. You can even see a similarity in the geography right around the same area is indicated in the following photo.

I wouldn't call this proof we're looking at the same ship in the same location, but I don't think we have enough reason to rule it out.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-03-2017 4:34 PM

According to the true leaks covenant was heading to other planet. But they got a distress call from the planet of the movie wich i believe its lv426 pre nuked.the distress call was sent from david but david will expriment on shaw and i believe he kills her . I read somewhere they say the signal covenant gets its a song..but this could be false..anyways they are certain its a planet they can breath and support life..hence why just the team awakes and all the rest of the population for colonization is left in cryosleep. So it wasnt something covenant ship was scheduled to do,that wasnt the planet they choosed to land.

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 4:35 PM

The curve of the AC ship is significantly deeper, and the mountain range significantly higher. This is just another derelict tease like Prometheus, most likely. Keep in mind LV-426 is not an uncharted planet. The planet Covenant is heading for is.

If RS decides to throw out continuity, then anything goes and there's no baseline to start from. Hard to determine what is reasonable or not. If Alien and Prometheus are any indicators, we are all thinking way too hard about this anyway. Minimalist efficiency seems to be how these stories get told. 

 

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 4:52 PM

@Tiago_miami_la That leak doesn't really match up with the trailer, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. The biggest problem being the Xeno gets on the covenant, and they don't address that. They make it sound like everything happens planet side. 

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Jan-03-2017 5:05 PM

"I wouldn't call this proof we're looking at the same ship in the same location, but I don't think we have enough reason to rule it out."

I do (unless Ridley really isn't interested in maintaining continuity).  Juggernauts like the one David and Shaw left in are round.  The Derelict is horseshoe shaped.  Juggernauts are also larger than Derelicts.

The above pictures show sunlight behind the rocky outcropping behind the Derelict.  The Juggernaut has a huge mountain instead.  The Derelict as found by the Jordens in Aliens equally has no big mountain behind it.

 

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-03-2017 5:59 PM

I'm still not convinced we can say there's no mountain with certainty.

You guys who are anti-LV426 could easily be correct. But the case made in favor of a different planet isn't compelling to call it case closed.

The scenes in both Alien films do not clearly show the area behind the derelict ship. There's way too much fog and the scene with the Jordens in Aliens shows the ship at such an angle that it's impossible to make an actual comparison.

Arguments can be made about the exact dimensions of the ships and counter arguments can be made about angle and depth perception. Arguments can be made about the size of the rock formations/mountains but the only clear look we get at the terrain is from AC. The other two films leave the terrain mostly shrouded in the mystery of the pervasive fog. Additionally if there was some sort of nuclear event, that transformed the planet, it could have easily nibbled away at the mountain. Also, in the AC trailer, the higher aspect of the mountain is off in the distance. There is no way to see that far through the mist in either Alien film (especially not the scene with the Jordens where not a single shot of the ship allows for proper comparison).

In regards to the "sunlight", In most of the scenes of the area near the ship in both Alien films, this "sunlight" (indoor white floodlights courtesy of 1979/1986 special effects) is reflected all throughout the fog. Trying to nail down that the mountain isn't there because of the sunlight being visible (which the SFX guys did a terrible job with) is pointless since the light is dispersing throughout the fog.

Last thing, I can't find anywhere that distinguishes the derelict ship from other Juggernaut types. These are observational details and we're talking about observation through a few select camera angles that encompass less then 15 seconds total between the two movies and trailer. This is not anywhere near the amount of observation required to even set parameters for achieving continuity (especially considering we're doing the observing through a screen and not in person).

I highly doubt Ridley would agree to be constrained by what can kinda be inferred from a few seconds of the original films. He may have even rewatched them one night, saw potential for mountain through the mist and said to himself "I'm going to design this to originally have been a forested mountain and it's going to be friggin breathtaking. We just don't know.

S.M

Jan-03-2017 6:12 PM

They talked about the need to re-design the Derelict into the Juggernaut when making Prometheus because Riddles wanted it to roll and the Derelict wouldn't do that.

As the above pictures bear out.

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-03-2017 6:16 PM

S.M

Are you saying a production decision in favor of allowing for a rolling juggernaut is defining it as a different ship in the canon?

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 6:22 PM

@QueenElizabethShaw the pictures aren't enough to rule out LV-426 after a massively cataclysmic event, but every piece of data about the events of LV-426 and the length of time we can infer that the derelict was there COMPLETELY rules out any ship that crashes on the planet in Alien Covenant being the derelict from ALIEN. 

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Jan-03-2017 6:25 PM

"Are you saying a production decision in favor of allowing for a rolling juggernaut is defining it as a different ship in the canon?"

If you like.  The fact is, as it stands, they're different ships.  Different shape and different size, which be worked out simply from footage in the films in which they appear.

It's Riddles prerogative to mess with continuity should he so choose - but should this planet somehow end up being LV-426, it will mess with established continuity.

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-03-2017 6:48 PM

"If you like.  The fact is, as it stands, they're different ships.  Different shape and different size, which be worked out simply from footage in the films in which they appear."

I can get on board with the idea that he made the ship different for the scene to work but I don't see how that binds him to say it's a different ship in the film itself. He gave it all the critical components of the derelict.

The only other thing I see being a problem would be the Weyland files on the bluray, but I am curious as to whether Ridley cares to move in sync with that material. If that was largely promotional material from Fox, I could see him disregarding it. Especially considering that material was only available through the bluray and the script for AC underwent significant changes several times since that material was released. The man is almost 80. He may not even remember some auxiliary material Fox decided to attach to the bluray

Aside from what has already been discussed, are there other ways that establishing the planet as LV426 would ruin continuity?

S.M

Jan-03-2017 6:57 PM

Ruin is too extreme a term.

There may be some planetwide cataclysm that destroys the atmosphere, levels mountains, wipes out all life, vaporizes the waterways, shrinks and reshapes the Juggernaut - reducing its size above ground, but expanding it below ground (but leaves it and its cargo otherwise unscathed), all in less than 18 years.

As I said above, if he wants to change stuff, he can - even if it defies the established lore. It'll be up to others to sort the mess out.

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 7:03 PM

Oh, and the derelict on LV-426 was shot down before prometheus left for LV-223

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Myrddin365

Jan-03-2017 7:07 PM

Yup

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Jan-03-2017 7:17 PM

Yeah I wouldn't pay any attention to that nonsense (though I do agree the Derelict has been on LV-426 for a very long time).

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