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LV-426 or NOT?

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123Engineer

Dec-25-2016 9:15 AM

Will the uncharted paradise be LV-426 or not??

79 Responses to LV-426 or NOT?

ali81

Jan-26-2017 8:14 AM

hope ur right bigdave

BigDave

Jan-26-2017 8:19 AM

I think it wont if they go that Paradise is LV-426...  it does bum Prometheus a bit... and Alien 5 had to be changed because it was stepping on the toes of Prometheus 2 so Ridley takes these things serious..

And so while i forgot one Clue in Favor of Paradise = LV-426 because it was a idea Ridley had many years ago... prior to even thinking about Prometheus...

Another clue against it was Holloway when he said about the Star Maps that they found in a Cave... that only one system matched the Maps... this System had a star with one Planet that could support life and they arrived there that morning...

If LV-426 is Paradise.. then Holloway was wrong... and LV-223 was not the only planet/moon that could support life.

Ridley would have to toss out that... and the Viral Marketing for Prometheus as well as other things.. to go for a LV-426 is Paradise and Juggernaught = Derelict and then God knows who the Space Jockey is..

Because well in AC there is no Pilot... the Ship is empty.... unless at the end or next movie they show us someone gets on the Juggernaught and attempts to take off with it and ends up crashing again somewhere else on LV-426/Paradise..

This would fit more with Alien then.... and explain maybe why LV-426 changed..

But if it was that simple... why did David remain stranded why not try and take off?

Also it seems AC will end with Daniels and at least David or Walter on the Covenant Ship with many more Colonist in Cryo-sleep..... where do they go after this... and how would this lead to the Juggernaught then being the Derelict.

As it has no Pilot in AC?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-26-2017 8:24 AM

@SteveRogers1973

Good point ;) forgot about that

The Trailer seems to show us that Paradise does not look 70% the size of our Moon, also they said its a Planet and not a Moon... but i think Holloway mentioned Planet too when he meant LV-223

I think it would be a Cop Out if they go for Paradise to be LV-426.. it would be a way to tighten up to Alien and throw out the Engineers for good...

I would be happy to BET it wont be the same though...

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ali81

Jan-26-2017 8:31 AM

under normal circumstances regarding locations for setting up colonies, its daft and prob would never happen. my guess is this is a front. the company knows more, as the weyland files now support. and have set up the atmosphere processors to lay claim to the planetoid. so whatever else is there is theres and isn't going anywhere so they have time to wait for the processors to kick in. in the mean time theyl let the prospectors investigate and if they dig something up, woop woop. if not, theyr claim is legal without anyone asking too many questions and they can move theyr own people in at a time of theyr choosing. pointing out its size also adds to the doubt of paradise being lv426. a planetoid that small surely could have any kind of atmosphere or gravity that would sustain such a lush eco system? 

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-26-2017 8:37 AM

BigDave

We saw in Prometheus, the pilot chamber is transformative. With that idea in place, can't it be possible for different components of the chamber to be activated/deactivated?

Imagine if there are different modes for the chamber. Is it impossible that the sleep modules could flip over, leaving the bottoms of them exposed while concealing the part we see in Prometheus (making them appear as part of the platform?) In the same kind of thinking, could it be impossible that the control panel with the chair can also conceal itself? We see the control panel chair move it's position when David (and the engineer in the hologram) sit in it. So could that chair fold into the control panel and conceal it? It does after all seem to have a shape that fits the shape of the control panel. 

 

ali81

Jan-26-2017 8:48 AM

possible this type of ship is older or newer than the one in prometheous and there is no control panel, the helmet interacts neurologically with the pilot and the chair itself doesn't lower under the flooring

MuzzleNZ

Jan-26-2017 10:21 AM

@QES - I'm with you with regards to many of the comments around some of these unknowns saying 'absolutely can't be' etc. AC is coming out 38 years after Alien. Ideas, props, FX methods, directors, designers all change over time. Of course it's possible.

@ali81 - if the Derelict turns out to be crashed by David, and that turns out to be LV-426, that does nothing to the likely very long history between the goo/aliens/engineers. It just means that answer isn't what you were hoping for based on a 38 year old mystery. I'm positive there will be way more back story to the Engineers/SJ to come.

Anyway, I don't know what the direction is but he I'm excited to see where it goes. We just need to keep our minds open and not write AC off because the answers aren't what we had thought/hoped/assumed.

Some of the comments on this forum make me wonder why anyone would want to continue the series/story, because they could never possibly get it right or please everyone. Some of the comments about Ridley by one or two members ive seen in other threads are just plain embarrassing. Clearly these people are themselves, cinematic geniuses. I'd love to see the huge fan base spending large amount of their time (and money) collecting, watching and debating just one of the many amazing things they've done with their lives, such as we are with The Alien universe created by Ridley.

ali81

Jan-26-2017 10:45 AM

muzzle

I cant wait for AC but I don't see ridley managing to fit much backstory into the engineer/ xeno history as AC looks to be a pure classic alien horror. im guessing the sequel to AC will be the one where it all comes together. as iv said many times, I cant wait to see AC but I really hope ridley goes more Prometheus toned than alien in the next instalment. I have faith in the man but having read a lot of the theories on here and many of the plausible, I would just hate to think that the david being cause ending would greatly disappoint many after all this time

chli

Jan-26-2017 11:04 AM

As you know, there’s something called Occam's Razor (If there are many possible explanations for something, you should choose the simplest).

The outbreak on LV-223 was about the same time as the juggernaut crash landed on LV-426 (the chest bursted, and fossilised, space-jockey was part of the same outbreak - something had evolved in the cargo hold). This happened around the year 93 AD.

In 2093 AD, The ship Prometheus lands on LV-223, discover what happened there in the past, as well as the mutagen (the black goo). The crew is wiped out and David and Shaw leave the moon in another Juggernaut (with a cargo hold containing different kinds of things . . .).

David and Shaw crash land (say 2094) on Paradise, (which was the homeland of the engineers) but they are also wiped out about 2000 years ago (because of the same outbreak on LV-223 spreading to their world).

Paradise is therefore still beautiful and lush but there are no living creatures there anymore (only ruins still containing different things . . .), only trees, bushes and fungi . . . David has the mutagen with him and starts gardening . . .

David sends a message to Weyland-Yutani Corp. that he is on a wonderful paradise-like planet, and about 2103 AD, The Covenant sets out with 2000 colonists aboard . . .

19 years later (2122 AD), The Nostromo lands on LV-426 . . .

ali81

Jan-26-2017 11:19 AM

think the more accurate description is 'once all possibilities have been examined, the simplest, most logical solution, however unlikely, is the correct one'

MuzzleNZ

Jan-26-2017 11:27 AM

Mmmm - not sure that's the simplest explanation ;). Your theory is as good as any @chli. I love reading peoples take on what has/will happen. But it is, like my own views, largely conjecture.

I think you make some assumptions about LV-426 ('fossilised'; 'same outbreak'; 'something had evolved in the cargo hold'; 'this happened around the year 93AD') and 'Paradise' ('homeland of the Engineers'; 'also wiped out about 2000 years ago....because of the same outbreak on LV-223').

Occam's Razor would suggest that the Derelict on LV-426 resembles the Juggernaut we see in the AC trailer, and LV-426 is right 'next door' to LV-233. Therefore, the simplest explanation would appear to be that David crashed the Juggernaut on LV-426 shortly after leaving LV-233, and the Covenant comes along later to an area already known to have a moon that can support life, and subsequently LV-426 is destroyed by the events that occur in AC (such as David's gardening).

I think it's a less likely explanation that David and Shaw fly to a more distant location (assuming long range scans from Earth haven't discovered this planet due to its distance from Earth), with a planet already able to support life, and the Covenant just happens across this planet (whether summoned there by David or not). The Universe is massive. There's a lot of variables in that explanation.

MuzzleNZ

Jan-26-2017 11:29 AM

@ali81 - I agree, I think there will further exploration of the Engineers in future films, but I get the feeling AC will be more than David just experimenting with goo. I think there will be enough in there to give us some answers, and tease us with further questions about the Engineers.

Myrddin365

Jan-26-2017 11:36 AM

One important point I made earlier that everyone missed.

Paradise obviously has liquid water on the surface. The only catastrophe that may have turned Paradise into LV-426 would have to be so explosive that every drop of water on the planet would be dispersed into space so far out of orbit that it didn't even leave a ring. (Probably into the gas giant.)

Anything that powerful would have blown away all of the atmosphere on the planet as well, but LV-426 HAS an atmosphere. It also would likely have blown away a significant portion of the planetary mass because LV-426 is only 1200km in diameter and has a two hour rotation.  Life will not exist on a planetoid that small naturally. That explosion would also have had to atomize that planetary mass and send it into the gas giant as well. Because there is no ring around LV-426

@queen I find it unlikely that any ship could survive an event that DESTROYED EVERYTHING ON A PLANET and atomized a significant portion of it regardless of the quality of construction and materials. 

 

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

ali81

Jan-26-2017 12:14 PM

myrddin....definitely adds weight to paradise NOT being lv426

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-26-2017 12:22 PM

Myrddin365

The event I entertained doesn't have to destroy anything on the planet. That suggestion was more about the planet being coated in volcanic ash and lava. When Mt. Vesuvius erupted, Pompeii was coated and encapsulated in volcanic mud and ash. Preserved for almost 2000 years. For the sake of further exploring such a scenario, we can look at two possibilities.

1. The lava flood isn't that deep and the juggernaut does not get submerged. The life on the planet dies due to the ensuing nuclear winter you get with a massive eruption and furthermore is coated in a layer of volcanic mud/ash (turning it into a rock.)

2. The lavaflow is deep and the juggernaut ends up floating atop the lava until such a time where everything cooled.

In either of these scenarios, it seems the ship could still have a chance to remain (mostly) intact.

 

Now for the sake of looking at other possibilites, we can also trash the volcanic activity idea and go with a much simpler explanation. The idea that an event occurs (perhaps triggered by Daniels, David, or an engineer) where the entire planet is exposed to black goo to a point where the native life doesn't even get infected but is simply destroyed. We've seen what black goo can do but considering it's varied outcomes, we can't say we know EVERYTHING that it's capable of doing.

Let's go a step further and remove black goo from the equation. Let's just look at the idea that Engineers (according to some of the original ideas for Prometheus) are also supposed to be terraformers. Who even knows what their terraforming technology is capable of.

Simply put, we just don't have enough reasons to say that the planet in AC is definitely not LV-426 prior to some transformative event.

ali81

Jan-26-2017 12:51 PM

QES, so what ur saying is maybe the black goo seeps down into the core of the planet? hhhmmmm interesting theory, any volcanic activety would be a mix of lava and goo and would most definitely destroy the entire planet

MuzzleNZ

Jan-26-2017 12:56 PM

Mars - no surface water (but evidence of past oceans); has an atmosphere and weather events/storms; catastrophic event in the past causing the ejection of virtually one hemisphere of its crust. Science supports this on LV-426, but we're talking about science fiction, so anything is possible (FTL travel anyone)

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-26-2017 1:32 PM

ali81

I actually wasn't saying that at all, but now that you mention it, that is indeed an interesting concept.

I was discussing black goo infecting the planet as a means to wipe out all life. It was a separate theory from the volcanic activity. I could see it upsetting people if that happened. A chemical or mutagen seeping down into the core and not being destroyed by the heat would likely set of a lot of logic radars.

Also molten rock isn't alive. I don't think it'd work

ali81

Jan-26-2017 1:38 PM

true don't see it working and after id posted it the heat aspect donned on me, the organic matter would burn up long before it got to the core

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-26-2017 1:40 PM

It did make me realize it'd be fascinating to see something massive transformed by black goo. Take an elephant or whale for example.

Something I'm hoping we'll have the opportunity to see in one of these films is what it looks like when other animals are exposed.

Neomorph

Jan-26-2017 1:41 PM

Well if a SJ can dramatically change in size and design and be reduced to a tall albino called "an engineer", I wouldn't be too surprised if the planet in AC turns out to be LV-426.

I doubt it though as the environmental differences are too vast, and I hope not because I'd love to see more planets introduced in the series.

ali81

Jan-26-2017 1:49 PM

neo, we don't see the SJ out of its suit so nothing has actually changed. the size thing, doesn't really affect anything as they could all very well be different sizes like humans differ. the SJ may have been an older engineer, depending on how long they live. the engineers in Prometheus may be the equivalent age to say our 21-30 age range and they don't stop growing till theyr in theyr 50s or 60s, which the SJ could be, and may live for 150 or so years. we just don't know enough to say either way for certain the SJ isn't of the same species as the engineer but RS has stated they r the same

Myrddin365

Jan-26-2017 4:49 PM

Y'all just aren't getting the level of cataclysm that would be required to turn an earth-like planet into LV-426. It's not just volcanoes it's blowing off 90% of the planetary volume and liquifying the rest. 

Is it possible? Yes. Would the derelict have survived it with eggs and lazermist intact? No way.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

MuzzleNZ

Jan-26-2017 5:01 PM

I get what you're saying @Myrddin365. I guess my point is with all the other things that just can't happen, as we know it (faster than light travel, cryosleep, black goo, terraforming, finding numerous planets, planetoids and moons varying greatly in size, but apparently having the save gravity) - the possible 'destruction' of LV-426 could happen in any number of ways, fudging the laws of physics/nature, or something we don't know about. More fiction than science.

We've actually seen very little of LV-436. Who knows what kind of past it has. basically, we've seen Hadley's Hope and the area between the Nostromo and the Derelict.

Personally, I think it's entirely feasible that LV-426 could have been 'de-terraformed'. As I've said in previous posts, Ridley likes his symbolism, patterns, history repeating aspects. The fact that they chose LV-426 and not, as we know now exists, LV-223 to establish Hadley's Hope suggests a bigger story we're not yet privy to.

Myrddin365

Jan-26-2017 5:57 PM

@MuzzleNZ it's not about whether it could happen or not. It totally could. What I'm convinced could NOT happen is the derelict sitting pristine in the EXACT same position after this cataclysm happens around it with all the eggs intact..

We know Juggernauts can be forcibly moved with enough momentum from Prometheus. We know being on the wrong end of the right physics can damage them.  We know Xeno eggs cook and die in flamethrower discharge.

If Paradise became LV-426 there is NO WAY the derelict and egg chamber survived that process. So Paradise cannot become LV-426.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

QueenElizabethShaw

Jan-26-2017 6:40 PM

Myrddin365

On the other side of the coin, we have no way to verify what the heat shields of a civilization who's technology surpasses ours by billions of years are capable of withstanding. Furthermore, the scenarios I described don't need to be explosive on a magnitude that it would evaporate oceans or obliterate surface objects.

For the sake of discussion, lets set a planetary lava flood aside. Even something as simple as a caldera eruption could create the conditions we see on LV-426. We know that if Yellowstone erupts, it is expected that the entire North American continent would be plunged into nuclear winter. Have an event like that take place on a small planetoid and such conditions could possibly envelop the entire thing. The sun could be heavily blocked out and the vegetation on the planet would die rather quickly. That would likely create the exact conditions we see on LV-426.

You could even take a caldera out of the equation and leave the nuclear winter intact (by way of terraforming technology or a variety of other possibilities for that matter.) All you really need is for the atmosphere to change in such a way that the local vegetation can no longer be sustained. This could be part of the reason why Covenant's chief terraformer is the lead role.

You could still be correct and this AC planet may not be LV-426 at all. There just isn't enough information to confirm either way.

MuzzleNZ

Jan-26-2017 7:09 PM

@Myrddin365 - I'm thinking less geological cataclysm, more environmental breakdown. Basically, the environment becomes toxic rather than geologically destabilised.

As mentioned before, they can do what they like (and probably will), so science (and possibly disbelief) be damned - it could happen!

Id

Jan-26-2017 11:49 PM

whether its lv426 or rq522. what does it matter? the real matter is, does this movie become the direct tie into alien so that scott can get on with his engineer stories? he said the beast is cooked! then he changed his mind.....why? because he knew nobody will care about the other stories until they have their grubby little hands on the true backstory! he wants the alien out of the way. so what? so he was gonna dilly dally his way to it with 4 movies. the he changed his mind! why? maybe he got tired of reading about the sad faces who poopooed prometheus because it didnt say how the ship with eggs got to 426. 50 bucks says hes giving them what they want so they hush and watch the other movies. WAKA WAKA!

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-26-2017 11:54 PM

Id you are unreal ahahah

But 

You might be right indeed! My eyes Are open

MuzzleNZ

Jan-27-2017 12:24 AM

I think debating whether it's LV-426 is the point of this thread. You guys feel free to start another thread on your mutual dislike of Ridley. Be good to keep it all together so it doesn't get mixed up in every other thread.

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