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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

The Alien: Covenant, Alien: Awakening & Prometheus Movie Community

shambs

Member

9

Posted Nov-02-2016 7:26 AM

I want to discuss something that I find interesting. It has to do with the return of Weyland and his interaction with David. I think there could be hidden clues about Engineers.

Obviously what follows, reported by AVPGalaxy, could contain potential spoilers:

"We have learnt that Guy Pearce will be reprising his role as a slightly younger Peter Weyland during the film’s opening scenes. The current edit of Alien: Covenant begins with David 8 being brought online in a large white room with a grand view overlooking an ocean.

A younger, but still somewhat aged, Weyland asks David various questions to test him. We eventually move to David performing Richard Wagner’s Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla, explaining the meaning of the piece as he plays."

There you have it..."Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla"...Do you think there are clues in this piece? maybe something about the history of the Engineers and the Paradise? What is the meaning anyways?

I did a little research on Valhalla and this is what Wikipedia says:

"In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain") is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those who die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök."

So, do you think there are hidden clues in this story? Let me know your thoughts.

28 Responses to "Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla"

shambs

Nov-03-2016 3:23 PM

Well, Valhalla sounds like a heaven for Warriors. And we know that there are vestiges of a war in Alien: Covenant...

Perhaps there is a difference between the physical Paradise (Engineer's planet) and the astral Paradise. Maybe, the Engineers have religious beliefs or even a God...

The story also talks about Ragnarök, Could be the plans of extermination of the human race? 

shambs

Nov-04-2016 8:39 AM

Thanks to a member of AVPGALAXY, I came across an interesting read...

"On the 29th October, AVP Galaxy published a brief report claiming that Guy Pearce is set to reprise his role as Peter Weyland, the billionaire industrialist who appeared in wizened form in Prometheus. Briefly described in that report is a flashback scene that is said to appear near the start of Alien: Covenant - Peter Weyland switching on David 8, the duplicitous android played by Michael Fassbender. David, the report continues, plays a piece of music from composer Richard Wagner's Das Rheingold - presumably on a piano - before explaining the story behind the melody.

Das Rheingold, to outline it very briefly, sees a dwarf named Alberich steal a magical gold ring from a bunch of maidens who live in the Rhine. That ring, which gives its wearer power over the whole world, is in turn stolen from the dwarf by Wotan, a Zeus-like god of gods. Meanwhile, there's trouble in Valhalla: the gods have contracted a pair of giants to build them a luxurious new house, but when it comes time for the gods to pay up, they renege on the deal. What follows is an almighty tussle between giants, gods and ordinary mortals, with the purloined ring the MacGuffin at the centre of it all."

So, the black goo could be as an equivalent of the ring of Das Rheingold, an item that contains the power of the gods. And we have the mortals (humans), the Giants (Engineers) and maybe the Gods (those who created them). I think a great battle or event occurred in the ancient past...and I wonder if we can see part of this conflict at the present time (Maybe David will unleash hell in paradise). Also, Engineers can be divided into fractions:

a) Those who support God

b) Those who support Satan

For a civil war I can think of several reasons, such as:

1) Space Jesús: There are engineers who want to help the human race to evolve...but there are evil giants who are jealous of the progress of mandkind, ready to exterminate life on planet Earth.



2) Prometheus Myth: There are Engineers who want to give powerfull gifts to mandkind against the will of God...





3) The rebellion of angels: Perhaps there are Engineers who want to be like their Gods (the original Space Jockeys), and they have stolen technology from them...perhaps they betrayed them and killed them.




4) Engineers have an enemy (Another race of aliens): unlikely, but this could explain why they have created a biological weapon so powerful and dangerous...




And that's all I can think of for now

 

BigDave

Nov-04-2016 3:10 PM

I think there are bound to be some similar themes that can be explored in a non literal way..... and indeed the Biblical Forbidden Fruit, Prometheus Fire and the Norse Ring of Das Rheingold could methodologically be connected.  And in-turn maybe the Method/Object the Engineers Obtain the Sacrificial Goo from is the Alien Franchise non-literal  adaption of this element.

I think they are loosely looking at connections that many Mythos Share and then incorporating them into something to base off loosely.....

This still leads to many ways this could be explored and we need to remember we dont know how literal or how not-literal the connections would be...

But there are many similar themes.

You can near enough connect every Religion and Mythos in like a Spider Web if you connect somethings they have very much in common.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

shambs

Nov-04-2016 6:54 PM

@Big Dave! guess what? thanks to a member of AVPGalaxy, I managed to find the roots of Black goo!

It is a mythical substance called "Eitr". This is what Wikipedia says about it:

"Eitr is a mythical substance in Norse mythology. This liquid substance is the origin of all living things: the first giant Ymir was conceived from eitr. The substance is supposed to be very poisonous and is also produced by Jörmungandr (the Midgard serpent) and other serpents."

Sound familiar? It could be just a coincidence, but the parallels with the black goo of Prometheus are amazing. I wonder if Ridley was inspired by this ...

BigDave

Nov-05-2016 9:10 AM

There are a number of Myths that have similar tale.

And the Eitr could be used as a way to link the Black Goo to Ancient Mankind Mythos and this has been discussed a few times in the past and its very interesting.

Prometheus however shows us that the Sacrificial Goo seems to be the Key Substance that holds a lot of Power... from it can be created many things which the Black Goo is just one of those.

I think the Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla Link if this Scene is Legitimately in the movie, shows similar Morality Tale to what the Bible and Greek Mythos has done too.

That there is some Source of Power, that is Forbidden to be used by All but only the Highest... and that the Forbidden use of this Power or theft of this Power, not only gives those who possess it a Advantage but it also leads to their eventual downfall.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

DirtWolf

Nov-06-2016 1:07 AM

I have always wondered whether the Engineers were ever even meant to create life.  And perhaps the aliens are their punishment for this.  If that is the case, why does it seem that the Engineers hold the aliens in such high regard?  All I can think of is perhaps they weren't supposed to see this punishment coming, and what they first viewed as special beings, ended up being the start of their downfall.  

RobotPie

Nov-17-2016 6:49 PM

Does the goo get generated by the green gem?  This gem is clearly highlighted in Prometheus and seems to an object of worship/prominence in the room.  

 

As for Dirtwolfs comment I have always wondered whether the Engineers are android type constructs like David and unable to reproduce hence their:

1. Hatred of humans

2. Hatred of David whereby the engineer seems approving of David at first but then rips his head off.

Chris

Nov-17-2016 6:58 PM

I've been theorizing the Engineers have more in common with David than humans for a while too, it makes a lot of sense. The way the Engineer looks at David almost with a hint of sympathy, could be due to the nature of their creation - knowing that their life is limited and so pursued knowledge of creation. This could be why they obsess over the Black Goo and why David too, is so drawn to its abilities.

As for the green crystal, they did make a point of zooming in on it. It's a shame they didn't touch in it more. It's definitely one of the more overlooked details from Prometheus, I'm curious if it's referenced again in Covenant.

Mattzilla115

Nov-19-2016 3:34 PM

Not sure if this was mentioned or not, Ragnarok is not always the end of the world in all of it's many versions, but the end of the gods. During the events of Ragnarok,the Midgard Serpent is pretty much the end of Thor. It is one of the most powerful creatures in Norse Mythology, and a son of Loki's, the god of chaos and mischief. It is constantly eating itself, symbolizing a perfect cycle, perhaps represented by the xenomorph lifecycle? It is also important to note the mention of serpents and the potential relation to the hammerpede and the fact that one of the first stages in a xenomorph's life is the chestburster, a serpent-like creature.

We have a direct hit sir.Oh... oh my god! It's him, sir he's still alive! Go!GO!GO! Get out of h... Skreeeeeeonkkk! The King has Awakened...

Determinism

Nov-21-2016 10:11 AM

Wow. Unbelievable. In 4 years I never once considered that the engineers could be androids. That's definitely a fun one to consider.

There's SO MANY different paths that the plot could take. Amazing. The possibility that the Goo was stolen from the Gods by the engineers is amazing to me. Perhaps they stole it from their creators. I'm psyched out by some much Sci Fi yall!  :) 

oduodu

Nov-21-2016 2:55 PM

What if the engineers 
Are replicants ?

Would Bob be 
Deckard?

Hunting them down?

oduodu

Nov-21-2016 2:58 PM

Perhaps as replicants
They seek a way 
To extend their lives?

BigDave

Nov-21-2016 3:46 PM

@DirtWolf

Thats a interesting question to ask, and indeed its one i have pondered for a long time and covered before, indeed no soon as Ridley referred to the Engineers as Fallen Angels which he had done prior to Prometheus DVD Release we then had to ask how are the Engineers loosely based on that, or was it to mean the LV-223 Engineers are.

Prometheus leaves us with a open book as far as theories, but we do kind of have to wander if indeed the Engineers are not the Gods.. or Top of the Hierarchy which Ridley Scott Mentioned prior to DVD release and removed Elders scene....  He did say they never wanted to meet God in the first movie in reference to the Elders Scene being cut... they was also not impressed on how they looked as far as Godlike.

Thus we have to ponder.. what had the LV-223 Engineers done so wrong, and why have no Engineers come back after 2000 years ago.. as far as to Finish the Job or even check upon LV-223

And so maybe one way this could be explained is what if Mankind on Earth that is, was created or evolved in some part by a Faction of Engineers against the knowledge or will of the Hierarchy...

This is something i mentioned before, its possible it could fit many of the loose ends so to speak.

So we could wonder,  was the Sacrificial Scene to create Life but not Humans... and that a Faction of Engineers took it upon themselves to at some point interfere and Evolve Life to become Human.. to maybe Worship them?  Or replace them in some kind of Toil/Task that the Engineers was used for?  Maybe like the Annunaki Tale?

Was creation like a bit like the Biblical account and that indeed Mankind was a eventual aim that the Hierarchy wanted... maybe after a rebellion by the Engineers and so we was to replace them?   And Mankind was to be a prized creation and the rebellious Faction was Jealous and they then corrupted Mankind...  

Maybe leading to Mankind and some Engineers being expelled from Paradise, or destroyed... but some Engineers escaped with some Humans and then began to settle on Earth where the Engineers then Cast  Dominion over us as Gods....  The Hierarchy eventually found this out?

So many possible ways to explore this, above was just some i had a long time back.

So THAT QUESTION.... that DirtWolf you pondered is a Good one... i.e  “I have always wondered whether the Engineers were ever even meant to create life.”

I know maybe you meant as in Total, and maybe not as far as Mankind... i think at very least the Engineers was needed to create Life... by their Hierarchy and i answer this next...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-21-2016 3:58 PM

Which brings me to the ANDROID part....

Indeed even if not intended at the start.... from when they was brainstorming a Alien Prequel until they got Spaights and then Lindeloff on board.... The role of the Engineers was different.... they was younger versions of the Elders, and the Sacrificial Scene was needed for the greater good of their Race... Ridley referred it to Mayans and how one Sacrifice would be chosen and they would live  a year as a Prince... and then be Sacrificed to the Gods for the greater Good.

HOWEVER...

Post Prometheus Shooting, they edited and cut and even during made few Re-shoots....  Post Prometheus release they continued to Evolve this Story and Plot... that name seemed to indeed place the Engineers as Fallen Angels..

Thus they serve some greater Hierarchy above them...

Thus they could function to the Hierarchy as David does for Mankind, they are created for a Purpose... they Play a part in the Creation Process as their bodies as used in the Sacrifice.

They may also have other roles too....

At some point maybe these Engineers Rebelled against the Hierarchy for how they was used..

Mankinds Creation could have been by the Hierarchy to replace the Engineers or by the Engineers without consent of the Hierarchy to perform the tasks the Engineers was used for...

That certainly would be frowned upon by the Hierarchy especially if Mankind is not a Clean Source of DNA as the Engineers was.

So many ways this can be explored and above is another... that kind of fits with the Annunaki/Igigi Tale...

I do think that since Prometheus the changes could point to similar, and that there is a Dark Agenda behind Creation or the intended Role...

Maybe the Rebelious Faction took pitty on Mankind as we was used in a Dark Agenda and so some of us was rescued and they set up a New World on Earth to raise Mankind and Teach and Evolve to then partake in a Role different than maybe a Darker Agenda we was intended for....

These Engineers who decided to do that also then got us to Worship them in return... as they was fed up of Worshiping their Gods...

Something happened that then maybe lead a Faction to see Mankind was being rebellious against them as they was to their creators/Hierarchy... they decided to destroy us... or upgrade us to something else they now saw as Perfect DNA and Worshiped for that reason but wanted to Hold Dominion over it.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-21-2016 4:03 PM

As far as the Crystal.... indeed its a oversight they should have looked into... they highlighted it, but they did so with the Mural and Fresco (a bit) and then left it....  being ambiguous so we can go and figure.

Now prior to the Green Crystal there was the Sacrificial Cup.. now that if it was left in would be a Clue that with the other stuff gives us something to build upon...

Why replace it with the Crystal?

Thats anyone's guess....   But it was Post Production/Shooting and maybe it links with the Change of Plans Post Prometheus?

The Source did say to me a while back at the start of the leaks that the Goo was some kind of Parasite and indeed different a bit from Sacrificial and Urn ones.....  But they had then changed it so that the GOO was now EVERYTHING... and so more important....

We have to wander if they are trying to now show us there is just ONE GOO and maybe that Crystal is now the way its obtained as opposed to the way the movie was shot and linked to how Spaights Nano Scarabs worked?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-21-2016 4:15 PM

@Mattzilla115

I will admit my knowledge of Norse Mythology is limited... but again with all Mythos there is a connecting theme, and you can connect them all together in a way... which is what the Ancient Astronaught theorist do....

Indeed from the Norse Mythos we could look at the first Giant YMIR and make connections with the Goo, and maybe how other Engineers came to be...  and then also Ymir Mythos where he was then Killed by Odin and his Brothers to create from the Giants Body, the World and everything in it... The  oceans from his blood, the Ground/Soil from his Skin/Muscles... Plants from his Hair... Clouds and Sky from his Head.

So yeah we can see this is similar to the Sacrificial Scene especially the Dialect that was Spoken by the Elder in the Full Scene was very similar.

Every Mythos/Religion has connecting themes... when it comes to creation... and other things.

I am not proficient on Creation of Man though as the Norse has many varied accounts... of tales, Greeks too.   I looked into Creation of Man and Woman and one main theme for Norse Creation seems they was created from the Stumps of Trees.

Funny we see Tree Trunks in those Set Photos... then we had that one leak supposed to be about the Spores... on Paradise... maybe its coincidence? we cant say its true...

But if i do my usual and try and connect something, then indeed i could suggest maybe those Tree Trunks then Grew Spores that then Created Mankind... as per Norse Mythos.. or maybe not literally but they could base in on that and instead of Mankind... something else is Born/Created from Spores at the base of Tree Trunks?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-21-2016 4:42 PM

Also when you mention the Serpent,  and its relation to Loki.. who we can kind of say is the Norse Version of Satan....  We can make some connections too.

Satan is refered to as a Serpent, his Fallen Angels too, and in Paradise Lost.. some of his Fallen Angels are turned into Serpents.

For Satans Sin he gives birth from his head to Sin... who is Part Humanoid Female and Bottom Half Snake... she is depicted a lot like the Greek Echidna  who is mother of Monsters (includes the very Eagle that Eats at Prometheus Liver).

Sin/Echidna  do have offspring.... a common one is the Hounds that Guard Hell/Hades these Hounds are depicted with Serpentine Features.... in some instances.

Anyway back to the Norse and Loki and his Children,  we have the Wolf Fenrir the Serpent Jörmungandr and a Female Hel

If we combine elements of the Serpent and Wolf we get somewhat like the depictions and descriptions of the Hounds of Hell (Paradise Lost/Greek) if we mix the Serpent with the Female we get again Sin/Echidna 

In the Norse Mythos Hel guards somewhat the Norse Version of where some of the Dead Go...  there are many different accounts however... but they all seem to point to a place where the Dead Go... and Hel is also said to be the Namesake of where she Dwells and Hel is a lot like Hell.... some versions she is the keep safe between 9 worlds, and mainly referenced with Niflheim the dark world/place a place of Myst and Death.

Seems Gloomy and she is depicted as a Gloomy in appearence often like a Witch/Hag...

And so again we can maybe connect Lokis Daughter Hel with Satans Daughter Sin.... who both Gaurd a Place where the Dead Go a place that are both described as being the Underworld and a Place of Darkness and Despair.

Again my Knowledge of Norse is limited and i may have to research a bit more...

But indeed Mattzilla115 like some of the connections you tried to make with the Prometheus/Alien Franchise... we indeed can in various Mythos make connections between each other and indeed some of the these can very well FIT with PROMETHEUS

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-21-2016 5:06 PM

The Ragnarök Tale is interesting..

Again its nothing i am familiar with but looking at it, it could very well connect with Alien Covenant as far as Past Events..

Its a War Between Gods.. and Factions in which Most of the most famous Gods seem to die... include Odin, Thor and Loki

so just doing a quick Synopsis we have this War, the Death of Important Gods.... on in particular is with THOR who has a Final Battle with the Serpent Jörmungandr (who previously had been cast down by Odin to the Ocean) Thor Slays the Serpent who was predicted to one day come out of the Ocean and Poison the Sky....  Thor kills the Serpent but he is bitten and Poisoned.. He walks not far and Dies.. some stories the Sky is poisoned.

After the Ragnarök in which the World suffers many Disasters and Ultimately Flooded so it can Star a New..

The World will resurface new and fertile, and surviving  Gods meet and Populate the World with the Surviving TWO HUMANS Líf and Lífþrasir who then inhabit a land a lot like Paradise.

These Two are maybe the Norse Equivalent to Adam and Eve

They was not the First Woman and Man.... just those who repopulated The World after the Ragnarök 

Now i have only just roughly obtained this off the internet and it had passed me by the tales of the Norse.. 

What is interesting is how it fits a bit with other Mythos and Garden of Eden at the end....

NOW THINKING ABOUT IT.....

looking into the Norse Mythos which i overlooked and never studied as far as trying to connect with Prometheus.....  there are connections.... connections that maybe link with Hel and Sin Daughters of Loki and Satan..

Ragnarök maybe similar to the Great War in Heaven at the start of Paradise Lost... Paradise Lost being a Aftermath... Then when i look at Garden of Eden and the Norse Myth of Líf and Lífþrasir which i had no knowledge off prior to just..

And it got me thinking about the Source and indeed if David at the start of Alien Covenant performs "Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla" to Peter Weyland and this new leak suggested, after talking about Creation and Death could mean loosely a hint at Norse Mythos too.... as well as the Loose Paradise Lost ones... Ridley mentioned.

If this Scene between David and Weyland is true... then when i have looked into the Mythos and connecting themes especially Paradise Lost Biblical Account, Greek Prometheus and Echidna.

And now tonight i have looked into some Norse ones... and especially the Líf and Lífþrasir who lead to Modern Man... but was not the First Mankind..

Then indeed the Sources Comments now seem to start to fit together.....  They did say current Mankind is not the first Generation and the Gods had destroyed Life over and over, and started New.... and that The Floods and other disasters are actual events in the Franchise but not linked to Current Mankind.

maybe just all coincidence... but this Topic and me looking into Norse Mythos that could tie into Prometheus and Biblical and Greek as made me see thing that very well back the Source up.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

JadeOwl

May-13-2017 4:20 PM

****Spoilers****

 

 

 

 

Having seen the movie (it came out here this week) the relevance of Entry of the Gods into Valhalla becomes apparent. There’s an obvious parallel between the plot of the Ring Cycle (particularly Das Rheingold, from which that particular piece comes from), and the Alien franchise.

In the opera, the gold of the Rhine maidens can be forged into a Ring who will give dominion over the world to its wielder, but only by someone who has forsaken Love. Alberich the dwarf forsakes Love, steals the gold and forges the Ring.

Like Alberich, David forsakes his love for Elizabeth to steal the secrets of the Engineers and forge them into the Perfect Lifeform, the Ultimate Weapon… the Xenomorphs.

Like Alberich, this process turns a somewhat benevolent being into a monster consumed by his obsession.  

The parallels also runs into the rest of the franchise. Long after Alberich is out of the picture, the pursuit of the cursed Ring brings death and destruction to all who covet its power. Long after David is out of the picture, Weyland/Yutani’s pursuit of the Xenomorphs as a weapon for their own ends will always end in death and destruction.

It also works for the Engineers. Either you think of them as the Giants, who destroyed themselves because of the ring, or more likely the gods who fall when Valhalla is destroyed because of the Ring.

Batchpool

May-13-2017 4:46 PM

Keeping with the viking theme, I wonder how much the backbursting scene was influenced by the blood eagle form of execution.

 

Derelict426

May-13-2017 8:14 PM

(WARNING Spoilers for Covenant may follow)

Valhalla in Norse myth is an afterlife gifted to only those only deemed worthy. A warrior who has fought valiantly and died an honourable and glorified death will have his soul taken to Valhalla by Valkyries on Odin's orders. In the Viking culture death in battle was something heavily prized as it was seen as the gateway to Valhalla. It also gave Vikings a more terrifying demeanour if you were to face them in combat as unlike most warriors, Vikings did not fear death, more than anything they desired death in battle above all else so they could gain access to Valhalla where they would sit amongst the greatest of warriors and dine alongside the Gods themselves. In a way you could apply this to Prometheus where the Engineers invite humanity to visit the star system containing LV-223 perhaps knowing only those worthy enough would be able to accept their invitation. This would probably have a greater impact upon David because he considers himself a superior being and more worthy than any to speak with the Gods. When we catch up with him in Covenant and he has the piece played again perhaps his view has changed and he is no longer the warrior seeking entry to Valhalla instead viewing himself as a God and so by playing music which announces the Gods enter Valhalla I would interpret the meaning of the song as this:

The crew of the Covenant are all people planning to become the first interstellar colonists from Earth as indicated by the trailer. The vision we get of this new world through Daniels is that at least to her it is a paradise of sorts and she is travelling there with her partner to begin a new life. She has this vision of building a log cabin with her partner by a lake and this dream seems like her interpretation of heaven, a paradise on Earth or Orogaie (Not sure what the exact spelling for the planetoid selected for colonisation was). So let's take that heavenly dream of Daniels and simply say it is heaven in relation to the song. Now Daniels and the rest of the crew and passengers of the Covenant have been specially selected for colonisation of that particular planet just like the way Odin would deem who was worthy to enter Valhalla. Therefore for the purposes of the song the planetoid selected for colonisation by the company is Valhalla, the company taking on the role of Odin, Chief of the Gods. Daniels, the crew and the passengers are the chosen warriors allowed to enter Valhalla escorted by Walter who assumes the Valkyrie role or so it seems.

The planetoid remains Valhalla but the other parts change. When we get to the end of the film we realise that David has assumed the identity of Walter and gained access to the Covenant, bringing two facehugger embryos with him. Therefore David assumes the identity of Odin, Chief of the Gods and the selector of the warriors that may enter Valhalla. The two facehugger embryos are the chosen warriors, the crew of the Covenant as well as their passengers are the Valkyries who are escorting these warriors to Valhalla which David likely plans to expose to the fully grown facehuggers in order to birth the Xenomorphs thus the humans fully serve the purpose of protecting the warriors by becoming host to the Xenomorph. The title of the piece referring to the Gods entering Valhalla is David believing himself a God entering the planetoid selected for colonisation which Daniels and the other humans view as a paradise, a dream they desperately desire so David enters Daniels heaven is the parallel to the Gods entering Valhalla, this parallel being brought on solely by the fact David considers himself to be a God for creating several Xenomorphs and he intends to give them paradise by exposing the humans on the Covenant to them.

BigDave

May-13-2017 9:32 PM

@JadeOwl

Indeed now the movie is out, we can certainly see the things you mentioned applying, especially David/Alberich connection.

@Derelict426

Very Good analogy, certainly can apply.

If we look at Paradise then in some Religions/Cultures its referred to as Heaven (only the Worthy in Gods Eyes Go), where we go when we die, but in many more its actually only  a Place where the Warriors or Those who died in Battle or those who Died in the name of God Go.

This indeed can apply to Valhalla 

The other Paradise is the Biblical and Paradise Lost version which is the Cradle of Creation, where the Garden of Eden is and where Mankind was Created, this place is not where the GODS or Angels come from... but its Guarded/Watched over by a Cast of High Ranking Angels the Cherubim

Both the Valhalla and Biblical Paradise themes can be used in a way.... The Engineers seed Life on Many worlds... the Sacrificial Scene had Dialog where the Elder said just before giving the Sacrificial Cup/Bowl over. "Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters. And may your soul be their way back to us."

So if Paradise is the Cradle of Creation, where only the Worthy are allowed...  Maybe the Elders/Engineers Seed many worlds, and the Race that turns out to be better and worthy are taken to Paradise...  this is why those beings look different to the Engineers, while some look similar... why the Burnt Bodies some are Human sized and others Larger.

This is a place where various Humanoid Creations created by the Engineers are allowed to Dwell..... Mankind is not here, because we turned out to be flawed and not worthy and so we was destined for destruction instead.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Derelict426

May-14-2017 11:15 AM

@BigDave

I agree definitely that there are a great many Biblical analogies in these prequel films as well. I found the relationship between David and Walter a sort of parallel to Cain and Abel with David not only identifying Walter as a literal brother but being heavily implied to have murdered Walter out of spite and maybe to some extent jealousy given the way he reacts when Walter corrects him when they speak about the author of Ozymandias coupled with the fact Walter finds Davids actions abhorrent. I also feel that the Divine Comedy may have been some inspiration for the series as we follow Davids journey as he travels through: Hell, which for him could be Earth and living in slavery to Peter Weyland; Purgatory, which could be LV-223 as he goes there with the intention of finding the 'Gods' but instead discovers the choice presented at the end of Prometheus is return to 'Hell' or discover Paradise which would be the Engineer home world he cleanses and begins experimenting on in order to create the perfect organism. Then also there are the strong links to Paradise Lost and the fact that Davids part in the story is that of Lucifer in Paradise Lost.

But yeah I do think that idea of the Engineers seeding other worlds and inviting the creatures they create to come and find them is interesting as it does lend more depth to the notion of Paradise being like that of Valhalla and only the chosen are allowed to go there, which could very much be how David interpreted it but on his journey to Paradise he discovered something about the Engineers that led him to despise them and to follow that Norse theme, cause Ragnarok.

tomw

May-14-2017 12:54 PM

Dave, this Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla thread kinda says it all. I believe it answers tons of the questions I have

Lifeatthebottom

May-15-2017 1:07 PM

I'm not sure if this comment will add anything but there was something that got me thinking during the whole scene.

Where does this conversation between Peter Weyland and David take place? is it after Weyland does his famous Ted X talk? or before he does his talk? going by how confident Weyland sounds, it seems as though to me he talked to David first and then he does the speech, in the speech he makes many remarks how "We are gods now" any thoughts? 

 

 

pulserifle187

May-17-2017 1:52 AM

I think David liked the music (entry of the gods into Valhalla) simply because he sees himself as a God. He, now without a doubt the most powerful being in the Universe. He is the most intelligent, he understands everything and he has a powerful weapon. 

Maybe a possible David lead Xeno invasion of Earth will represent the flood/fire which will wipe out Humanity. 

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"

Michelle Johnston

May-17-2017 7:55 AM

@Jadeowl

Thank you for highlighting the Opera itself rather than the source of the Opera. David clearly made the same decision as Alberich. When I pondered the application of the music many months ago I leap frogged to the Poet Edda and found the notion of Death, Sacrifice and a chosen home after death echoed the myth behind the Acolyte. Big Dave has reminded us of the lost dialogue from that scene which suggests a return for the acolytes soul. My connection with the potential plot was with Loge/David.

As we know John Logan (and Ridley) have narrowed there sites considerably but when I watched the movie for a second time I did ponder the significance of the reappearance of the music. They have all the ingredients for the creature and the new characters can come out of those sleeping. Daniels I recall expects to Terraform when they arrive another theme of creationism which originally was part of the Engineers armoury.

THE big question now is what else comes into the story reading Act 3 and 4 synopsis again I am immediately attracted to several elements :-

1) The dominance of Alberich and his enslavement of his people.

2) The intervention of Woton who in taking the ring brings the curse of ownership down upon him.

3) The arrival of the Goddess who urges Woton to give up the ring.   

In the Opera the story needs deities greater than Alberich to move the story on to its final tragic end I feel Awakening will need the same.

MowTin

Oct-26-2017 9:58 AM

A synopsis of that scene in the opera: 

"At last, the gods prepare to enter their new home. Donner summons a thunderstorm to clear the air. After the storm has ended, Froh creates a rainbow bridge that stretches to the gate of the castle. Wotan leads them across the bridge to the castle, which he names Valhalla. Fricka asks him about the name, and he replies enigmatically that its meaning will become clear when his plans come to fruition.

Loge, who knows that the end of the gods is coming, does not follow the others into Valhalla; he tells the audience that he is tempted to destroy the gods and all they have deceitfully acquired. Far below, the Rhine maidens mourn the loss of their gold and proclaim that the glory of the gods is only an illusion."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Rheingold#Scene_4

In the Opera Loge predicts the end of the gods because they are corrupt and flawed. Loge is Loki the trickster Norse god. Loki and Satan are very similar. I think it makes more sense to see David as Loge than Alberich because it fits more closely with the Paradise Lost analogy of Satan and Xenomorphs as demons.

So here David is predicting the end of the gods as he plots to destroy them through the demons he is creating. 

He ties together Christian and Norse mythology beautifully.

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