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How might it all link back to Alien?

How might it all link back to Alien?

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T MINUS 5

Oct-29-2016 9:29 AM

I'm interested in your theories of how the events of Prometheus, Alien Covenant, and further films might link back to the original - if we assume that the timeline is straight forward. There are obviously some big holes to fill to make it work - E.G - The fossilised remains of the Jockey, suggesting it has been there for a long, long time. How would you make it work? Does David create the Xeno? Or is he just meddling with ancient biological alchemy that put the derelict there thousands of years ago. Thoughts please. 

Secure that s**t Hudson

11 Responses to How might it all link back to Alien?

BigDave

Oct-30-2016 5:48 PM

This is the big one...

And contradicting one....  prior to Prometheus Ridley had said the Event was Ancient, after Prometheus we are given hints mainly by Lindeloff that the Hammerpedes and Deacon are Progenitors to the Xenomorph.

But as Covenant is now going to cover the Origins, unless the movie features those creatures or its sequel does not, then they Can-not be direct progenitors.

But the Process that lead to them can do, which started with the Black Goo.... so we could be shown the Black Goo in use in Alien Covenant at a timeline of post 2093 could lead to the Xenomorph... or a timeline on Paradise way from the past could do so.

But either way all connections would no doubt lead back to LV-223.

So this is a tricky topic, one that i can tomorrow give a in depth look and explanation..

My Nutshell running theory?  Which now with Alien Covenant could change somewhat....  the theory i had that holds water post Prometheus is this.

The Outbreak on LV-223 caused panic and Engineers to turn to the Sanctuary or the Big Head Room, and some the Cryo Sleep Pods.

What ever happened exactly i cant 100% put a finger on as there is a lot of clues that contradict a solid theory...   What i can theorize about is some part of the Outbreak or at least a Event related.

Had led to something Evolved, and got to the 3 other Cryo-sleep Engineers, they was chest busted.. We dont know when they was Chest Busted... it could be prior to the Outbreak or After.... but one must connect to the other.

And which ever one it is, we cant be sure what time frame.. was it hours Before/After or Days? or weeks? or years?

But i think the Chest Busted Engineers in those Cryo-Pods had either been infected with something that as a consequence lead to the Outbreak or they was infected from something that evolved from the Outbreak.

We get the one Engineer survived, the other 3 on the same ship had got Chest Busted....

The Space Jockey i feel suffered the same Fate as those other 3 Engineers, only somewhat he did not get Chest Busted... he latter some 200 years after awoke and then maybe found out what happened, or maybe not too much... but he then sets off to what ever place he was going before shortly after he releases he is infected and sets a course to near by LV-426 to Quarantine his Ship.

He knew the infection + his Cargo could spell bad news....  And so indeed it did, he was Chest Busted and then this Organism ended in the Cargo Hold and somehow Evolved the other Cargo (Urns).

This is one of a few theories i have to connect LV-223 and LV-426 that fit with Ridleys comments in the past and after Prometheus.. where he claimed...

1) The Space Jockey/Derelict Event  occurred within a few hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak that killed off most of those Engineers.

2) The Space Jockey was off to a undisclosed location but he did not get far before he got infected with his cargo (hint LV-223).

3) Something in the Cargo Hold Evolved and it got to the Space Jockey.

4) The Derelict did not Crash, it was a planned procedure, so a attempted landing.

5) It was a noble Act, at least as far as for his species at least.

Point 3 was made way after the other points.... and was his latest in regards to the Derelict Event.

So my theory i propsed would try and tie into those comments, but i have a few moderations and versions of it as i dont seem to have one theory as i explore other possible outcomes.

But in line with Ridleys comments the one i proposed is a more likely one...

The One maybe alternative is the Cargo...

If the Space Jockey was not infected as per Chest Busted Engineers on the Juggernaught in Prometheus..... then potentially after the Outbreak something would have then infected the Space Jockey Cargo and Evolved it.... this then got to the Space Jockey.

These theories are based on the Eggs not being the Cargo but Black Goo Originally.

But with Alien Covenant all this could change.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

T MINUS 5

Oct-30-2016 6:39 PM

Thanks BigDave As always, a fascinating and intelligent insight from you. You should be asked to write the next movie.

Secure that s**t Hudson

T MINUS 5

Oct-30-2016 6:39 PM

Thanks BigDave As always, a fascinating and intelligent insight from you. You should be asked to write the next movie.

Secure that s**t Hudson

BigDave

Oct-31-2016 11:58 AM

Thanks..... i did work on a Promethues 2 fan draft but gave up as it was a hard topic to tackle... ultimately how does the Gods connection and Agenda fit... so many theories and i could not figure which to use.

i was going to Re-write Prometheus by merging Spaights elements and add some of my own stuff to make a Movie that maybe Prometheus should have been but i never got to finish that either.

i also had 3 other Alien related movie ideas, that i have not got to put into a draft... but i guess i should make a attempt to some day.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

shambs

Nov-03-2016 2:54 PM

Space Jockey ship looks ancient, as coming from Paradise...

Perhaps there was a war in the ancient past, and the events of LV-426 and LV-223 are connected to that war

The only way to include the Space Jockey in Alien: Covenant (Or future sequels) is through flashbacks or holograms.

Unless, Ridley Scott can change his mind about it (Ie, the Space Jockey is not so old)...so they can show us that event in real time...but it is very unlikely. I personally prefer the connection with the Space Jockey, instead of Ripley's mother, because with the latter, this universe looks smaller and I want a Lovecraft-style horror universo.

But if they are going to make from this a trilogy, perhaps the third film establishes connections with the Alien. Who knows at this point.

Btw, I am very curious about how they will explain the differences in size between Prometheus Engineers and the Space Jockey? this is probably the biggest hole of all, and I don't see easy solutions to that question...but I can think of two options:

a) The eldery Engineers are higher than young ones

b) The Space Jockeys are genuine biomechanical entities, and a diferent species and the Engineers are imitating them. The Space Jockey could be their God.

Rick

Nov-03-2016 3:23 PM

BD,

I have had several ideas for an Alien(s)/Prometheus fan plot.  Several that run parallel to the Aliens movie.  Read back through some of my old arguments on the probability of WY running parallel black ops missions while the marines are at LV-426.

BigDave

Nov-04-2016 9:24 AM

Will check them out Rick...

@Shambs

I would say that LV-223 and LV-426 incidents are connected and as far as any War/Uprising i would not be surprised if this was the case.. but we cant be sure where they are exactly going with this.  However some rebellion within the Social Hierarchy of the Engineers must have occurred.

As far the Size goes... this was just down to the way Ridley worked with not wanting to use CGI much and to use various ways to create a illusion that sadly never worked.

Illusion 1 Child Actors in Space Suits enter Derelict Pilot Room and approach the Space Jockey... AIM = create a Illusion of a 26ft Space Jockey, in reality it created a 21ft one that was un-done with the Close Ups with Real Actors.... where we can see the size was more about 15ft.

Prometheus Production Work and Draft Process Acknowledge the Truth behind the Space Jockey size and gave us the Concept that the Engineers were 12-15ft tall. Spaights Draft which was revised down for Lindeloffs to 10ft tall

But again in Prometheus Ridley tried a few tricks to try and create the Illusion of a 10ft Race but the Close ups ultimately showed us they was more 8 feet tall.

They could tackle this by having different sized Humanoid Creations... the Elders or who ever the Hierarchy are could have different sized lower castes....  which could include the LV-223 8-10ft tall beings and Space Jockey who are 12-15ft tall.

If we are going Biblical.... then deeper into it all Angels are not made equal there are different castes... and so different castes could be different sizes.

Then we have the unholy union between Angels and Daughters of Man to make Nephilim Giants who varied in size.

Either of these could be explored loosely to explain the size differences.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Hudson25

Nov-04-2016 1:29 PM

Rick I like your line of thinking on the parallel plots.  I do remember reading that bit on Blomkamp saying he had to "bump" several aspects of his Alien 5 movie to accommodate what Ridley is doing with his story.  Although vague, I think that could quite possibly hint to some parallel to what is happening in the Prometheus/Covenant storyline be it with time or the possibility of advancing time in that series and catching up with the events of Aliens which I rather like and links the two stories nicely. 

If FOX is smart, and I would like to think they are; they could be using Scott's Prometheus movies to bolster interest back into the original timeline of events and with Blomkamp's alternative sequel to Aliens, they probably are eyeballing setting themselves up to do future movies following the events of that and maybe carrying on with Newt as the new lead, etc. etc.  Honestly, I would just be happy to see Ripley's story properly put to bed and I would be fine with that. 

BigDave

Nov-04-2016 2:26 PM

I would assume that the Alien 5 Conflicts had to be regarding how Blomkamp may have touched upon any of these ideas and how they may conflict with what Fox and Ridley Scott had plans for from Prometheus ==> Alien.

*What is the state of LV-223 at the time of after Alien (what does the company know).

*What is the state of the Engineers after the events of Prometheus to Alien... are there any left within the local Galaxy and do they ever interact with Mankind after Prometheus.

*What Engineer Technology/Ships are left as far as the companies ability to potentially learn more or even obtain Post Prometheus and Post Aliens.

*Any connections and Agenda the Engineers had with the Xenomorph, which can include how they created or obtained them.

*Anything to do with the Origin or Creation of the Xenomorph or explore ways of how the Biology works that was never shown in the Alien Franchise.

I guess also maybe dealing with what happens to the company, but i would suspect that Blomkamps Story touched upon one or more of the points above in some way.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Dark Nebula

Nov-05-2016 12:38 PM

I don't know how it might link to the original Alien,but I have one silly theory about the outbreak on LV-223 and the derelict crash on LV-426.Based on Ridley's comments,not exactly how he described it.

This is how I imagined it:

1) 2000 years ago the Engineers on LV-223 were planning to wipe out the human race with the use of the black liquid they have created.As they were in process of leaving they lost control of the black liquid and most of them got infected with it,mutated and started killing others.In the end almost all of them perished.

2) As the black liquid spreaded across the engineer temple(s),over the years spore filled Pods started to evolve from it.Including inside one of the Engineer ships where the Urns were kept.

(something like this inside the derelict cargo hold)

3) Some Engineers remained dormant inside their hypersleep chambers for many years (in other pyramid).

4) Hundred years later, one Engineer's hypersleep chamber stopped working for some reasons and he woke up only to find Engineer corpses and the pods of the blackliquid around the temple.

5) He woke up other Engineers from hypersleep...

 

And all of them started boarding the ship in which they were planning to leave LV-223 and go somewhere else.Its one of the old Engineer ships.

6) One of the Engineers entered some room to get the equipment he needed,unaware of the Pods that were inside he got infected by the spore that entered through his ear/mouth whatever.

 7) The Alien bursted from him and went on a rampage across the temple, killing the remaining Engineers.

8) Last remaining Engineer ran to the ship and started activating it,but the Alien followed him and attacked.

9) After many power and struggle he managed to kill the creature somehow,but was badly wounded. The creature bleeded acid and made a hole next to the pilot chair.The Alien fell inside the hole.

10) The body of the Alien dropped next to one of the ovomorphs that evolved from the black liquid.The ovomorph opened and the facehugger that came out of it climbed up towards the hole.

11) As the Engineer was done setting a destination,the old SJ suit covered him.Suddenly the facehugger jumped on his helmet,pushed the tentacle through the helmet mouth and started impregnating him that way (the mouth of the helmet remained open from that point on).

 

Something like this.

(I couldn't get the classic facehugger.)

12) The Engineer later woke up,realising what evolved in the cargo and that he was impregnated with the deadly parasite,he set up a destination to the closest planet and set up a warning beacon.In this case it was LV-426.

13) As the ship was landing ,the Chestburster suddenly bursted from the Engineer causing him to lose control of the ship and to crash on the surface of LV-426.

The end.

Thoughts_Dreams

Nov-06-2016 2:31 AM

T Minus 5: Interesting post, this is my reason for watching the prequels to Alien because I want to be given some clue about how the Xeno came to be. To me the engineers are interesting because how they are connected to the Xenos but they are not as interesting in themselves but if they make the Xeno connection making sense then I have nothing against them exploring the Engineers a bit more.

 

My general idea is this: The Engineers are creating different life forms maybe because they simply can (according to Holloway) so they create mankind. At some point mankind acts in some way that the Engineers don’t like so they create the monsters and try to get to earth (like David says in Prometheus). My idea about the black goo is that it is something that the Engineers find and use in their experiments. I am not sure how the black goo came to be maybe it could be made in the same way that people can get gas from oil?

 

We saw some Engineers that were trying to some room possibly to escape some monster on LV-223 but they end up dead. Maybe that was because of from experiments that the Engineers did but it turned on them (according to Janek in Prometheus at least). Eventually one of them gets chest busted but that doesn’t mean that it is done by a Xeno but it could be from an ancestor of it. LV-223 was some sort of lab where the Engineers did various experiments the way I look at it.

 

They send the Space Jockey in order to drop the bio-weapon (the Xeno) on earth and try to wipe out mankind but for some reason the cargo (the monster) gets out and infects the SJ. After a while the SJ understands that it is infected so it crash lands on LV-426 and sends out a warning beacon probably to the rest of the Engineers to stay out of there before it gets chest busted and dies.

 

Before we get to the Space Jockey we have at least Alien Covenant to look forward to. There are things that happened between Prometheus and Alien that they will need to answer. I am not sure if they are planning to do another Alien prequel before Alien (1979) but we will see.

 

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