Alien: Covenant's Temple scene
Posted Oct-10-2016 7:16 AM
This image has got to be one of the most compelling (in my humble opinion) that has, of yet, come out from the production.
I'm assuming that, what with CGI etc, this scene is going to be on a much bigger scale than what we see here.
It makes me wonder what other structures, if any, we will see and what the Engineer civilisation looked like before/after the 'event'. Is Paradise another outpost, religious centre or home-world or simply one of many worlds inhabited by the Engineer race?
On the basis of the image above, I'm imagining a whole city-scape with this 'temple' as the central focus. There are also the images of the heads which also adds to the feeling of something on a grand scale.
It appears as if they are attempting to reach the opening/doorway, but is it me, or does it look like some of them are grappling/fighting? Could be trying to carry/help them I suppose, but doesn't look that way to me.
My own thoughts on this are that there has been an outbreak of Deacon like Xenos; but by who and why? Accident or bio-attack? Perhaps the Temple is a safe zone, an area immune to infection as it were? Like the Urn room in Prometheus? The charred corpses (again - that's what it looks like) suggest some kind of 'firing' or bio cleansing act on a very large scale. The question then is, by who? Same Engineers, a different Engineer faction/race, a higher power or something else entirely?
News on AC seems to have gone a little quiet but I keep coming back to this image and wondering - it seems to provide so much, and yet raise so many new questions all at the same time . . . thoughts?
Posted Oct-10-2016 9:39 AM
I don't think that it is important if it is the home world of the Engineers or one of many worlds. What is interesting to me is what goes on here and how it is connected to their society. They probably have buildings and so on dedicated to their culture in some way that could be interesting to see.
Judging from the picture it seems that something bad has happened. I always think about Pompeii when I see this image. Eventually it is a bio-weapon that they (the Engineers) created that turned on them. Compare it to a bio-weapon that is done in a lab that ends up on a place where it shouldn't be, it spreads with very bad consequences as a result.
Hopefully it is a mistake that they did that lead to this. If it is a result of a mistake then it is a way of saying that yes these Engineers are very advanced but that doesn't mean that they can't make mistakes. Let's say that a God in a way is supposed to be something perfect then they can not be Gods (“they made us” Shaw said which implies that she sees them as Gods or something similar) hence Shaw is wrong.
To put it very concise: what we see is probably a bio-experiment that has gone wrong.
Posted Oct-10-2016 9:44 AM
I agree that is is clearly a a scene that will be very large in scale. I am not sure that I believe that this takes place on the Engineers' home world as they were so careful to set up their failed assault on earth on an off-world base if you will. I wonder what Ridley has planned for the series connecting back to Alien, as he could spend all films working up to the Engineers' home world, being the interesting storyline that it is, but is not necessarily the end-all in leading up to the events of Alien.
Great post and job deciphering what we can see in a mere set photo, I anxiously await our first teaser.
Posted Oct-10-2016 3:29 PM
These Set Photos are a MASSIVE leak if you would but they are officially leaked and i dont think Fox are stupid enough to give a lot away and so there has to be a lot more to it.
Its interesting and puzzling at the same time... its very open to debate... but if we follow what we saw in Prometheus and Ridleys comments about Prometheus and planned Prometheus 2 and even Alien Covenant then we can make some sense of it..
Latter i will add what the Source had hinted at that provides a potential answer, the Source said a lot of things that i was a tiny bit skeptical about.... until these photos came to light and it got me thinking a lot of what they was saying is making sense.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Oct-10-2016 4:04 PM
Lets take a look at these shots and i will Highlight key points of interest.
What we see here is a scene of something disastrous a while back Ridley said they are off to the World of the Engineers (Paradise) and its a scene of Disaster, this however does not imply this Scene is on Paradise we cant be sure.. it could be or then it may not.
We see some kind of Apocalyptic Event perhaps? a few have compared it to Pompeii, however this is certainly no Natural Disaster. Although it looks a bit like a scene of some disastrous event, but what kind of Event?
Well we have some clues..... Firstly the Scene looks set either in the Past or on a World that has a very Ancient looking Architecture its as if its a scene from Biblical Times its certainly as if it could be Roman or Prior time of Civilization, however are those Humans?
Secondly if we can look at those beings and they look Humanoid, they are Bald... but could this be due to the effects of what ever disaster has occurred? But then why do some have Tunics in place? If this was a Fire or something then why do they appear to not be completely naked? Maybe because we cant be shown fully nude beings... but then we have to ask so what Disaster renders every single being to have no signs of any Hair?
These beings also seem to be fine Specimens of Humanoids, the males look very well sculpted like Greek Statues like a Adonis the Females are in very good physical shape Perfection? a Aphrodite
Like our Sacrificial Engineer..... but surely these are not Engineers? We never saw Females? however this does not mean that there could not have been, as Ridley said regarding the Sacrificial Scene that this is not the only way they can create life, its just how they chose to do it. There was concept work done for Prometheus with Female Engineers.
I would now like to turn your attention to the Inscriptions upon the pieces of Fallen Architecture as you can see from the next image we have the same Writing as found on the Engineers Cave Temple Walls....
Conclusion these all point to these beings in this image as being either Engineers or very related to the Engineers and not Humans.
Thirdly if we look at the Scene of Disaster and ask ourselves what does it look like, what can cause such destruction as we see Monuments and Walls are damaged and turned over, well if we look at History and especially Ancient or not so Modern Cities... then the usual results for such destruction of Monuments are the results of.
*Natural Disaster Large Storms, or Earthquakes the result maybe of a Pompeii style Volcanic Activity (could this explain the black soot look to the ground and beings). But i dont think this is the case.
*Result of War we do see some infighting in these scenes but they are likely between those same beings who are suffering this Disaster and so they are all on the receiving end.
*Result of Uprising/Rebellion when cultures have taken part in a uprising against their Hierarchy over History we have seen the destruction of Monuments dedicated to those who have been Rebelled against. But could the destruction of these Monuments be within the same time as what ever disaster or tragic event is happening to those beings.
*Punishment from God if we apply this as many ancient disasters had been delivered as Punishment from a Angry God it can fit in with all of the above.
If we go to the comments by Ridley about Prometheus and the background they are following, where he mentions about the Fall of Man... and Paradise Lost and how he had put in minor connections to Biblical and Greek Fables and Religious Historic Events..
Then this could fit in, as the themes that Prometheus Mythos and Paradise Lost Share are about Rebellion and Punishment and this is a likely scenario for what we are seeing.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Oct-10-2016 4:26 PM
We dont know nothing about the Engineers... not much as far as details... Prometheus was setting up that they had been the ones behind the Creation of Mankind, and the continued interaction with Mankind to both teach and nurture us and give us Knowledge and Technology... Ridley Scott even said they had visited us over and over Evolving us both Genetically but also Technologically. The movie was setting up that our interaction with these Engineers is how Mankind went through sudden leaps of advancement.
Ridley had proposed at the time that the LV-223 Engineers where more like Fallen Angels.... this implies a rebellious faction and that their is a higher Hierarchy above the Engineers.
Ridley made a comment regarding the removal of the Elder Scene, as that they did not wish to meet God in the first movie, which can only mean our Engineers are not God... Does this mean the Elders are the Gods?
Maybe or maybe not as they had evolved the Caste System from what seemed like Ancient Cultures like Indians or Mayans where the older wiser of their kind the Elders ran the show.... Ridleys comments about Fallen Angels and not meeting God could lead to a different Caste System... Thus the Engineers are maybe Creations themselves?
A lot has evolved since those times, but maybe the Prometheus name was more than just a name and the Mythos plays a role? We had Two levels of Gods.... The Titans and then Children of the Titans the Olympians who over thrown their Fathers
Ridley has mentioned Paradise Lost... this poem is about the Fall of Mankind, which started from the moment Adam and Eve had consumed from the Forbiden Fruit and had gained Forbiden Knowledge they was not Fallen like Satan who tricked Adam and Eve to gaining this knowledge... Satan himself had more freedom and knowledge than his peers... This knowledge and Freedom of Will made Lucifer see himself as equal to God.. well that God is nothing Special and why should his angels all serve to a Dictatorship... much like Cronos the Titan was (Dictator) ...
There could be Parallels between Satan and Prometheus.
We have to remember Ridley was only vaguely and loosely connect these things to the Engineers.
It sets up one thing for Certain..... The Engineers are not God, there is a higher being at least in the Hierarchy the Engineers are Fallen... they have acted in a way or done something against the wishes of the Hierarchy (God)
Prometheus Mythos, Biblical accounts of God are full of Punishment handed out to those who disobey and go against the wishes of the God/Gods.
We now have to come back to this Scene..... It certainly is some Race related to the Engineers if not Engineers themselves... it does not have to be on Paradise (Homeworld of the Engineers) but it could be another World related to the Engineers.
However we have to look at Ridleys early comments about they arrive at a Scene of Disaster... is this they as in David and Shaw or the Covenant crew and is the Disaster a previous Event prior to David 8 arriving on Paradise or after?
We dont know.... but supporting Ridleys comments are the connections to Paradise Lost which deals with the Fall/Rebellion and displeasing of Fallen Angels and Mankind against God.
We have to consider the deleted Prometheus Scene where Shaw asks David what the Engineer said... when the Engineer said they did not come from LV-223 but from a place that Mankind would call Paradise... and this is where Shaw wants to go... where THEY came from hence Paradise.
so its highly likely maybe this Scene could be on Paradise in the Ancient Past, but thats not to say its the case.. it at very least is a World that was inhabited by Engineers or related beings.
The whole Paradise Lost Fallen Angels, and maybe exploring what became of the Engineers does point to something related to the Engineers either on Paradise or another world that had gone against the will of the Hierarchy and where Punished...
Or maybe its just a Galactic War between the Fallen and non-Fallen Elements of Engineers Society...
We have to ask what constitutes such a offensive actions to make one Faction want to destroy another, or even God Punish them if we go for that context...
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Oct-10-2016 4:47 PM
If we explore the last point then Something Forbidden may have taken place... we have to wander what was the purpose of the Engineers, we know we saw the Sacrificial Scene and its hinted now the Engineers are a lower caste, maybe a sub-creation themselves.
What would cause a outrage?
Sub-creation? would creating Mankind without the consent of the Hierarchy be such a Act? The Last Engineer was none to pleased that Weyland had played God and created David.
Was Mankind Created for a purpose... but some Engineers had decided to either give us Forbidden knowledge... or interfere with us in a way that has Mankind Worship these Engineers as Gods.... would these upset the Engineers Hierarchy?
Would the Engineers, experimenting with themselves and creating Females be a act against the will of the Hierarchy? for which they got Punished?
But the Disaster Scene i feel is a Punishment being handed out to Engineers or some beings related to them for upsetting their Hierarchy it fits with the Paradise Lost theme... and what the Franchise has hinted at.
This also is what the Source was hinting at but in more detail.
some points the Source covered prior to even the mention of Alien Covenant, at a time when Blomkamps Alien 5 came about when there was no News on Prometheus and then the time there would be no More Gods and Dragons.
They claimed the theme was about Rebellion and Punishment, the unintended use of Forbidden Knowledge and the consequences of this.... Creation and Sub-Creation and the constant re-occurring event of Creator creates a creation and creation rebels against creator and then they sub-create and then their creation likewise rebels.
A theme that the Greek Prometheus Mythos explores, Uranus vs Cronus... to Cronus vs Zeus.... and likewise Biblical as in God vs Satan... They claimed Prometheus was following the same and David is the latest of this chain of rebellion against creator. They claimed that actually the Matrix related theme was closer to the idea.
They claimed the Engineers are not Gods, they are just as David is to us. They claimed that Mankind had been to that system prior to Prometheus (LV-223) that Mankinds role in the creation of the Xenomorph was bigger than the Engineers.
That Mankind is actually the 4th or 5th Generation of Mankind and there was prior versions of Mankind, who had came and gone and that we did not Evolve from Primates as Darwinism but that the Engineers form part of our Ancestral Evolutionary Tree instead.
They brought up how some ancient Mythos and cultures had previous generations of Mankind, and their was generations that did not have Females. And that Females where a cause of problems and noted that without Eve would Adam had been tempted by Satan?
They claimed that Humans were not the first generation on Earth, and that God has created and destroyed Life on Earth and elsewhere a number of times (sometimes to create one must first destroy).
They hinted at Biblical events of Punishment and Disaster had occurred in the past but not as in connection to Humans but the Biblical events are things that have happened within context to the Plot.
If we look at Ridleys comments about the Space Jesus... and the coincidental date of 2000 years ago, he said he did feel the Space Jesus was angle to go for... in that they saw Mankind misbehaving back in the Roman Times and they sent down a Emissary to try and put us back on track but we Sacrificed him... But they felt this was too on he NOSE!
But Ridley still felt the reasons are valid, i.e Mankind had upset the Engineers with how we started to behave and how our Worship had changed back in the Roman and Catholic Church times.
I feel those comments can hold true to that Disaster Scene... and so who ever this Race was... they had upset their Hierarchy/God and they was maybe punished for it.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Oct-10-2016 5:03 PM
I will now come to the Scene a bit in detail...
The Engineers or who ever look dirty like they have been covered in Mud that has dried... well who knows what this is and maybe CGI can add to it.... Could it be the use of the Black Goo?
Most of these beings are on that Stair Case leading to that Wall that reminds me of one Giant Version of the 10 Commandment Tablets.
What is the importance of this set of Steps?
Its been brought up on here that maybe they was trying to get beyond that Wall as if it was some Giant Stone Door, in the same fashion that the Engineers were running to the Big Head Room...
Maybe.... we cant tell what this scene is totally as CGI could expand it, i would say that this THEORY would hold some weight to the infighting we saw...
Imagine a Impending Disaster on Earth.... a incoming Asteroid and hundreds of people maybe thousands have arrived at a Mountain that holds a underground Shelter for Protection and a vast amount of people are rushing to the Gates to get in..... with impending Disaster and this as a potential way to survive it... surely mass infighting would break out too?
Another theory for the Infighting? well maybe this is scene of Armageddon by what ever means then infighting could break out... Maybe if this is a Punishment from God/Hierarchy its logical that some of these beings may blame others for their rebellious nature and fights break out.
Should a Asteroid come to Earth, you could have some Religious people maybe start fights and rows with others and blame them for Humanities disobedience to God has brought Gods Wrath down upon them... and they are getting punished for the crimes against God of his peers.
This could fit in with the infighting.... its unlikely to be different Factions fighting each other...
Another option is if the Black Goo has been deployed then some of those beings could be mutating like Fifield or at least its effected their Mental State and made them aggressive towards each other.
We have had the Fifield Mutation comparison brought up and some websites report some shots as showing Aliens attacking Humans..
This Zoomed in shot comes to mind...
But we may not be seeing longated Limbs and Heads like Fifield, it could be just the angles... and positions of the Actors... some say the one being here is clearly a Monster.
Well the Face can look odd, but this is low resolution and the other infighting beings dont look as deformed.... its a case of what looks like a deformed face... is actually just the being in questions hand on the wrists of the being being attacked and shadows off the being being attacked.
But we cant rule out Black Goo related Mutations taking affect.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Oct-10-2016 5:11 PM
I will now expand on the scene a bit more..
Another Close up Zoomed in Shot....
Here we see these beings spawned across the steps.... i want you to take note of some of them.... One that looks Female who is on her knees and looking up at the Heavens with her arms raised... and a Male looking one to her left who is standing with his hands in front of his face.
What could these be...
1) They are looking at the Heavens in disappear as if pleading towards God, we see communities on Earth with some doing the same after a Disaster or after Conflict (Bombing) as if to look up and ask God WHY!
2) They could be looking to the Heavens becomes this is where a Attack is coming from... picture the last moments of a Asteroid about to hit Earth and we are at where hundreds of Humans could not make it to the Mountain Sanctuary in time..
They are left to look up at the impending doom....
3) Are they trying to reach the safety of beyond that Wall, maybe there is a Ship beyond it that is now taking off?
But for both 2 + 3 these beings look like they have already suffered the effects of something and so option 1 fits the bill more.
I am therefore going to assume this is a Flash Back Scene of the result of Some War... or Punishment by the Hierarchy or maybe even upon the Hierarchy.
As a way to show us the result of some kind of Rebellion and the consequences of this, and in relation to maybe the loose links to either the War in Heaven (which Paradise Lost Poem arrives at the aftermath) or the result of Punishment for the Rebellion.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Nov-22-2016 1:07 AM
Definitely looks to be either female or smaller/younger "beings", in the shots I was able to expand on.
In the 2nd pic, the being to the right on the ground looks to have a Trilobyte on top of him … ? But I'm sure that it just seems that way.
I still cannot decide whether that is a "being" and Xeno fighting in the last pic. It sure looks like an elongated carapice from a Xeno … or is it the "being's" arm???
Posted Nov-22-2016 7:35 AM
There was rumors of Trilobites before....
But i think we need to look at the scene better, and its low resolution and so we cant make stuff out, the same goes with the bottom Shot...
It may appear that way... but its just the angle and lighting and low resolution... if you look at the head of the being to the back what may look like a Alien looking head... is just shadow of the first being and the beings hands around the upper arm of the one in the front... so you see the fingers and shadow play can look like something else.
I think i explained the scene a bit in previous post... but to me it looks like they are all trying to climb those Steps and some are looking up and some may look like fighting others look like they are embracing.
To me this is like some Disaster is on its way... imagine a Asteroid heading for Earth or the Treat of a Nuke and people know a Mountain that has a under ground base...
You can imagine loads of people would flock to try and get into that under ground facility for Safety and during such a stampede, fights would break out.
The looking up to me either shows something is then being unleashed from them....
Or maybe those Stairs lead to a Landing Platform where some of them are making a Escape and leaving the others behind.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Nov-22-2016 12:16 PM
I was studying those pics a bit.
And If measured those figures correctly,I would say they are between 7' and 8' tall.The bigger muscular ones could be males and shorter thin ones females or young ones.
By the look of this dude right here and his nose structure we can assume those are definetely Engineers.
And I would say this skinny one right here is a female
(sorry for potato quality,I added some effect)
And yes,it looks like they are trying,struggling to get inside the temple.Some are fighting others like they are not letting them get to the temple,some look like they collapsed and started crawling towards the temple and some just passed out on the steps.
Idk whats happening here,looks like they are hugging each other.
And some in here look like they are crying and some like they're about to throw up.
And this one, am I seeing this right?That guy looks like he has holes in his torso.
And I don't think they were all naked,I suppose they wore something before their deaths like the sacrifical Engineer from the beginning of Prometheus but their clothes got burned or whatever happened.
Posted Nov-22-2016 5:15 PM
Some of those beings appear to be missing extremities: feet/hands etc. Whether this is due to their bodies breaking down (ala the sacrificial scene) or, as BD suggests, some kind of meteor/comet or some weapon being unleashed upon them by their Elders is up for debate.
sure would be good to have higher res. pics from different angles …
Posted Nov-24-2016 11:56 AM
This is a interesting scene ... and indeed these beings have to be related to the Engineers, they could be Engineers or they are another related race either came after the Engineers or Predates them or was created by the same Hierarchy who created the Engineers... they are related.. has to be.
However i dont think those in this Scene are 7-8ft tall... they could be supposed to be a Race that are 6ft, 8ft, 12 ft but the actual size of the Actors/Actresses or Props are about 6ft or less i.e Human Sized.
This image kind of confirms we are either talking..
1) Human Actors/Actresses which could be a Flash Back and shows us the Engineers or related Race... but its would not be a Live Action Shot that the Crew of the Covenant or David interact with unless
a) These beings are related but smaller than the Engineers.
b) They are using similar technology as LOTR and Hobbit movies used... which i doubt.
2) Shows Props of Humanoid Forms, Frozen/Petrified like the Gaze of a Gorgon... or like Pompeii... However..
a) Why show a Flash Back of a still of victims who are turned to Stone Like? Unless
b) The scene interacts with the Crew of the Covenant or David... but then why not use larger 8ft-10ft Humanoid Props?
i... These beings are smaller than Engineers...but related.
ii... Again they are using LOTR Trickery.. which i doubt..
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Nov-24-2016 12:04 PM
We have to wander what it could be.... these beings i think as mentioned in this Topic? If not i have before.. are very Humanoid... they are Bald... and we have to ask.. how are they Bald and yet still have some items of clothing like Loincloth!
They seem dressed as the Headless Statue that was knocked over is... and so like this Ancient Greek Statue..
I think its Greek lol
But yes these beings seem to be wearing similar... and so what disaster can blow/burn off any hair and yet not completely every item of clothing?
It seems like a Disaster... maybe some kind of Ash Blast.. but i doubt its a Volcanic Event.... but yes those beings look like they have died Mud/Dirt as if they came out of a Mud Bath or had a Muddy Shower...
What can cause this?
Spores... or some Powder like/Soot thats gone over them... was there some kind of earlier Bio Weapon like this?
Or is it the Black Goo?
We have to remember this shot will have added CGI to it, and Wayne Haagg confirmed he worked on sets where he applies Matt Painting after... and i would say the Steps would have a Temple painted in after...
Like the Human Ship that was blown up... all we see is part of a landing platform and bit to the sides... but as with the Temple Steps there is no Green Screen like Prometheus Prop Sets had.. so they either using a new method or its going to be painted over after..
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Nov-24-2016 12:16 PM
When i talk about Bio-Logical Warefare.... this Scene looks as it its as if they been attacked by some Powder/Mud type weapon... maybe its like the Red Powder in the 80s Show V the the Human's created and then used to kill the Reptiles?
But in context to Prometheus... i think it has to be related to the Black Goo.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Nov-24-2016 12:20 PM
Yes 6' likely,If they are going to use the GOT technology most likely they would give us a 10ft race,15 foot seems too big.
Examples with these giants from GOT,the actors are 7'+ tall,and one of them is I suppose Ian Whyte.
In the edited version they are way WAY bigger.
Behind the scenes,green screen
While making Prometheus they were considering the Engineers as 15' tall race but because of rewrites or budget they reduced them and used 7' actors interacting with other actors on set.
But are there going to be Engineers interacting with humans in AC?I dunno,we will soon find out next year.
Posted Nov-25-2016 7:56 AM
Some good close up images and ideas there BD, DN & Th!
I also noticed the missing limbs - could this be due to deterioration of the 'fossils' if you will, or due to effects of mutation caused by bio agent(s) - black goo?
Could be just left off the props to be added by CGI later?
My take is that the beings shown are in differing states of transformation and are heading to the Temple for safety, and or a possible cure or suspension of the effects?
I'm also seeing the elongated heads. I know what you mean about the shadow etc BD but I still thnik there is a marked difference between some of the figures. Some of the grappling pairs show a much less muscular figure a-la the xeno body type.
Although re. the torso picture: I think the 'holes' are light reflections of the plant in the foreground rather than holes on the body
That's very much a guess though and I'm open to other ideas. Some of the theories here on this site are awesome and very creative, but I think Fox/Ridley will be forced, to a degree, to keep things a bit more 'obvious' this time around; so I'm drawn more to simper, more predictable theories than deeper ones (in trying to put the pieces together here that is - not in general necessarily :)
Posted Nov-26-2016 7:55 AM
Exactly.... this is what it think they should have done with Prometheus a massive oversight by Ridley... like the Space Jockey and Child Actors to create a in real time Illusion of a bigger being, thats undone by the close up shots with Adults.
Same mistakes made in Prometheus.... the plan for the Engineers as of the Final Draft was 10ft tall.
They can no undo that by using effects like you said in GOT and also LOTR etc...
Looking at the AC Scene... i dont think its a scene that interacts with any Humans at all.... its a flash back like the Elder Engineers one where they used normal sized Actors as they was not going to interact with Humans.
The Tree Stumps shot however i think is where we would get Humans walk through to give the impression of like the Show... Land of the Giants...
The Stumps had place holders, very similar to those Green Screen shots from GOT you posted...... which the like Red Crosses are there for a reason.
These Trees are thus not Stumps... its just the amount of the Tree that needs to be shown as far as the POV they would be shooting.... then any other shots they CGI the Top.... Saves having to Build Actual Trees that are say 3X Size of a Oak Tree on set.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Nov-26-2016 7:59 AM
We cant be 100% sure... maybe its showing some who are starting to Transform.... it could look like a Scene where some Bio-Agent has been Sprayed on them like say the like crop dusting which involves spraying chemicals onto agricultural fields or insecticides.
This could be some Agent delivered and so some Engineers or who ever are starting to Mutate indeed.
The Engineers however do have slightly elongated heads.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
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