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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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Facehuggers

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Posted Sep-23-2016 5:35 PM

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Something Real

Sep-24-2016 3:17 AM

FACEHUGGERS! - Oh, how very interesting! I am extremely intrigued by the implications of your hypothesis - especially when it comes to the amount of information Weyland and Vickers possessed on the Engineer species! What a very compelling topic! Thank you for sharing this with us! :)

Patient Leech

Sep-24-2016 5:09 AM

I don't think Vickers believed the Engineers even existed, and even if she did she wouldn't have known they'd be such vicious f#ckers and would kill Weyland. There would probably be more practical ways of killing him off if she wanted to seize power of the company sooner rather than later.

CarynParnall

Sep-25-2016 5:48 AM

@facehuggers!

You bring up a very interesting point.  There's been quite a few hoaxes within the realm of archaeology in the past.  

The Crystal Skulls are also considered to be fakes/forgeries; same with the so-called "Giant Skeletons," which some believe are secretly hidden away in the basement of the Smithsonian.

Anthropology itself has a history linked with colonialism, as well as with ideas about hierarchy and hegemony.  It may be that the discipline will never truly escape its past.  I'm willing to run with your idea and synthesize it with my predictions about Miss Shaw secretly being a spy:  I think Shaw used Weyland's resources to locate the Engineer home planet.

As Patient Leech points out, Vickers didn't really expect Shaw and Holloway to actually find their Engineers.  Shaw had more reason to believe that they would actually find them.  That's why I think she is very good at deceiving Yutani's Quiet Eye program, managing to pass their lie detector test (but just barely) - before Weyland decides to answer Shaw's calls.

It's possible that Sir Weyland hesitated to answer Miss Shaw's calls because of unusual levels of guile, dishonesty, and deception that showed up in the readouts at one point.  Micro expressions were being monitored on her traitorous face, indicating that she may have beaten the visual polygraph.  The lie detector test isn't foolproof/can't be entered as evidence in the case against Dr. Shaw.  There's only a probability that Shaw is a liar until it's confirmed.  By then it's too late; she has already betrayed the Company by giving up the location of the Engineer homeworld to the group she's secretly working with. Yet this could also be how Weyland-Yutani locates the planet, even though they arrive long after The Order picks Shaw up. 

The group that Shaw secretly belongs to would later be revealed to be known as The Order of St. Thomas.  They're a religious sect who believes in a form of Gnostic Christianity and worships St. Thomas above others.  This means that Shaw is not really your average Christian. She's what Sir Weyland refers to as a "true believer."  Her faction seeks to prove the existence of the Gods...

The Company (at least the Yutani side) would have always suspected that Dr. Shaw was deceiving them.  She was hiding a few things from Sir Weyland.  Miss Vickers did have possible motives to sabotage Weyland's project with the crewmembers she selected... but after the Engineers are found, she doesn't really try to run interference because she feels the old fool will get himself killed.  Vickers actually tries to warn him: "if you go down there, you're going to die."  David doesn't warn him. Through omission of words, David fails to warn Sir Weyland about how the Engineers are "mortal after all" - that there's no immortality waiting for him down there.  "There's nothing."  And "no man needs nothing."  If anything, it's David who had a need to see his Father dead.  Doesn't everybody want to?

Despite David's own deceptiveness, he doesn't expect that Shaw could be tricking him like how he tricked them all.  The "trick is not minding" that he knows that she knows that he killed Charlie.  Shaw decides not to show an emotional reaction until later down the chain.  David follows suit by pretending not to know that she's figured things out.  This eventually leads to David losing Shaw when the group she's secretly working with shows up out of nowhere and grabs her, leaving David alone on the planet to contemplate existence. 

BigDave

Sep-25-2016 6:56 AM

As far as the OT...

Its a interesting idea, but i am not convinced in any Agenda to fake such things to obtain a mission to LV-223 especially one that would lead to Weylands death. As it appeared all Vickers would have had to do is buy her time as Weyland did not have much longer to live.

@Caryn Interesting idea, but we have to ask what was Shaw's Agenda? What did she hope to gain from the Engineers if her Agenda was not to find out the truth about the Origins of Mankind and why we was created.

I did not see enough clues in the movie to suggest that Shaw had a alternative Agenda... and i think she did not have much of a idea of what they would find.... i think she and Holloway wanted to find some beings related to who ever visited Earth and be able to communicate with them.

She seemed more interested in the evidence of those actual beings rather than the Technology they had... why she was rushing David to hurry up and also to bag the head.... but David felt those Urns held more importance. Shaw was horrified at what she found as far as a outbreak and the potential risks this would pose.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

S.M

Sep-25-2016 4:23 PM

How did they fake a painting that would've come up as being over 35000 years old on a carbon reader?

And why the need to bump Weyland off?  He was near death anyway.

Facehuggers

Sep-25-2016 4:27 PM

@S.M.

You do have a point there! 

BigDave

Sep-25-2016 5:33 PM

@SM

If Vickers was part of the Hoax... yes... maybe the carbon dating can be fake... there are people who think real carbon dating is faked lol

But seriously yeah as i also mentioned the movie seemed to hint that Weyland was dying, he wanted to go to that system chasing Gods because he had hoped they could give him more Life.

Which would suggest unless Weyland kept himself in Cryo-Sleep or hooked up to Machines similar... he would not have lived much longer.

So it completely goes against the OP theory with Vickers.

But the other posters theory (Caryn) about Shaw having the ultimate Agenda.... then thats still a option its interesting but i dont think its what is going on.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

CarynParnall

Sep-26-2016 10:08 PM

@BigDave

Lindelof hinted that many people on that ship had "agendas."

The intriguing thing about Prometheus is just how much may have actually been going on under the surface.  Much of it is left open to interpretation, because there are still multiple routes that the filmmakers can go down in the sequel.

As far as I can tell, Milburn and Fifield didn't really have any hidden agendas.  Those two were completely incompetent.

Fifield was added to the crew at the last minute, replacing a more qualified crewmember mere days before takeoff, while Milburn lacked practical field experience.  The Weyland-Yutani Report explains that Vickers hired those two personally.  We can blame her for their presence if we want to point fingers, as it ultimately contributed to their failure to secure the specimen. I'll add that Miss Vickers was also a distraction to Capt Janek.

Some at W-Y may hold Vickers responsible for attempting to sabotage Father's mission; however, it seems that she did still care about him and simply thought he was being foolish in his old age.  Father became somewhat superstitious near the end of his life and wanted a "true believer" present.  That'd be why he looks the other way when he realizes Miss Shaw is a member of The Order.  Maybe Vickers warned him not to answer Miss Shaw's calls after she got a call from Yutani.

I think Vickers was concerned about what the Company might find there instead of Immortality.  Trying to sabotage the mission is done out of genuine concern.  She warns Father not to go meet with the Engineer, because she worries (and actually cares) about his well-being.  As Shaw said, there was only death there.  Vickers tried telling him he was about to die, but he just wouldn't listen to her... she was actually hoping that Shaw's Engineers wouldn't be found, and that they could just go home after a rather uneventful trip...  Weyland could've kept hopping in and out of the freezer for a few more years. So she wasn't in any rush to see her parents dead... but when he ignored her warning that final time, she gave up on Father.  

BigDave

Sep-27-2016 9:02 AM

Indeed thats a interesting take on Vickers... yes it could be she sabotaged the mission and the only crew apart from Shaw and Holloway and Fifield and Milburn... all seemed competant at their Roles.

From the Security Personnel (keep her Safe).... Mechanics and Pilots to keep the Ship doing what its supposed to do.  Right down to Ford and others who could provide Medical Assistance.

If Prometheus had found nothing or little and headed back home empty handed or found only a little....  Then Vickers could discredit  the credentials of Shaw/Holloway and Fifield/Milburn.

Its interesting you try to paint Vickers in a more Good Light..  she certainly was not the Heartless B£!h that the earlier drafts had her as... where she was interested in her own gains for company Technology.

Vickers showed a soft side to her, in the aftermath to killing Holloway and her talks with Janek and her Father.

As far as Weyland, if she wanted him dead then yes why not leave him to it.... if she had a Agenda to take over the company and knew her Father was on board... would she not have tried to get out of the mission and have someone else take her place?

So was she there to look out for her father, and spend what ever last moments they had together?

The other side of the coin was if she was worried he would indeed gain a extended Life, then she would have to wait much longer to be CEO

I find it interesting in your assertions that Shaw has some darker hidden Agenda...  its a interesting theory.... OR IS IT MORE THAN THEORY ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-27-2016 9:08 AM

My take on the quiet eye video, and other links with Yutani as far as things like ECU's   Is that they are a rival company who have had a number of conflicts with Weyland its a battle like Apple vs Microsoft....   and Weylands Patents over the compounds that lead to Weylands Androids being more realistic are and was a big blow to Yutanis own... it could seem that in the distance past Weyland and Yutani had worked together to help the world of Robotics and Synthetics Evolve.

To me it seemed that Yutani are a communications and software company pretty much like Apple is....

I would not be surprised if Prometheus was fitted with some Yutani Technology and also those quiet eye videos that use Yutani communications was a way that Yutani could secretly collect and obtain information about Weylands plans... they are essentially Spying on Weyland...

I often wander how advanced their communications  Tech is and maybe they could encrypt information sent from Prometheus so they can filter the content that arrives to Weyland Headquarters.  Thus giving Yutani the real information on what Prometheus had found.

I feel this information that gives Yutani a hold over the Weyland company.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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