Is the Beaked man a representation for the eagle who eats the liver of Prometheus?
Posted Aug-19-2016 11:57 AM
"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop
Posted Aug-19-2016 1:21 PM
Yes, Beaky could simply be symbolic of that, plus a little nod to H.R Giger, as that type of being appears in some of his artwork. On the other hand it could be something more.
There's no way to be absolutely certain at this point. However, I doubt if Covenant will contain any reference to this being!
Personally, I would love it to be another creation which may pre-date, or be connected to the MORB!
ps Hawley, I actually refer to it on your topic about the host origin of the Xeno tongue!
"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger
Posted Aug-20-2016 12:41 PM
Hmmm, yes, another ambiguity.
To me, within the context of being included in the murals, it represents an early "xeno", showing the engineers supposed dominance over it.
I think any direct reference to Prometheus in the engineer's murals might be a touch too "spot on" as Ridley might say.
But then again...
Some also see a wound in the engineer's side, so who knows, maybe "Prometheus" is finally subjugating his tormentor.
Posted Aug-20-2016 1:56 PM
I have discussed this elsewhere quire recently but Ridley's commentary talks about it representing sacrifice. The Engineer has birthed this abomination, the tear in the abdomen, and is pushing it away in the movie and from a slightly different pained fallen position so its riffing the Promethean legend.
For me the really intriguing element is that when mankind enters the headroom the fresco evolves and shows us an Egg with A L I E N hands around it. Just as this change is coming about the storm emerges from across the plains of LV223, a clear message to return to the ship and as the storm gathers momentum the god ahead appears on the Pyramid. This appears to be the beginning of the prophesy of Leviticus 22.3
"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD".
Within hours all will die except Elizabeth spurred on by her faith and with the help of the narrator of the story the A I departs for Paradise.
If one takes the full sweep its easy to believe that the hierarchy, the next layer, who will come into play in Paradise are offering signs as mankind stumbles into the great mystery.
Indeed as I begin to focus more on Covenant where it will take us to I am struck by Ridleys remarks "that the Engineers are Gods - not really who is who made them ?". How will the hierarchy manifest itself I hope it will remain elliptical and shrouded as the history of the Engineers becomes clear and the monster "evolves".
Posted Aug-22-2016 5:56 AM
Yes i made the same connection.... a number of people thought it was of God and Adam... but i think its based on this Fresco
Compare this to the Prometheus Movie Fresco... more similar pose... more similar look on the Engineers Face.... the Scar is in the same place.
Fits in with Prometheus name and Mythos.... and so the Engineers or One of them (leader of Rebellious group) was sent down a Punishment which was maybe Face Huger (Earlier Beaky Kind HR Gigers Face Huger 2)
The Result led to that Fresco Creature which then may have a Life Cycle the same as the Xenomorph.... and the Engineers who survived decided to experiment on this... until they achieved the Perfect Result...
The Mural Deacon and then unleashed this on the Engineers Homeworld and attempted to on Earth.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Aug-23-2016 8:57 PM
I suspect this creature is a representation of the origin species, which enabled the Engineers to produce new life. Perhaps it's biological make up contained the DNA mutation/replication ability as seen in the opening scene of Prometheus and was discovered and used by the Engineers (or their Elders) to artificially spread life throughout our galaxy as they required it. For them it could have been no more difficult than farming is for us. Creation of life on other worlds could lead to windfall for the Engineers. I see a number of body features similar to the Alien, arm spikes, hands, ribbing etc and I suspect there may be a tail and an inner mouth. Perhaps over millennia the Engineers used this technology without failure or error until of course there was an accident on LV223 and an outbreak and out of control spread erupted as seen in holographic replay. Whether or not the creature is native to the Homeworld of the Engineers, I guess we will find out soon.
Posted Nov-01-2016 6:31 PM
I know I am a bit late to this conversation but the hype for Alien: Covenant has me revisiting questions from Prometheus. The black goo and the mural/fresco, to me, have always been the most intriguing mysteries about Prometheus. And this is the most recent thread I could find on it. So here we go!
I have seen similar theories to mine, so forgive me if this is repetitive. But I have never seen anyone put it into words exactly how I think of it.
I believe the bird creature is where the Xenomorph DNA started. I think the DNA from the bird creature was added to the black goo to weaponize it, and eventually led to the Deacon, which the engineers believe to be the "perfect bioweapon". The bird creature is in a crouched position. To me, it appears as if he is submissive to the engineer above. I have 2 interpretations, depending on whether the bird creatures were a pre existing species, or if the engineers created them. If the bird creature was a pre existing species, it leads me to believe that the engineers think they have "conquered" the bird creature. But if the engineers did in fact create the bird creatures, I think the engineers believe they have created something that has "surpassed" this species in some form or another. Aka the "perfect bioweapon", aka the Deacon.
There are 2 scenarios:
1) the bird creatures were a pre existing species, and the engineers just stumbled upon them.
2) the engineers created the bird creatures by seeding a planet (as they did with humans).
If the bird creatures were a pre existing species, and the engineers just stumbled upon them, maybe the bird creatures were hostile and the engineers physically "conquered" them (in a war or something), and made them submissive. Or maybe the bird creatures were so strong that the engineers needed a powerful weapon to save their own asses. Even if the bird creatures weren't hostile, either way, the engineers started studying and experimenting with their DNA. While studying the bird creatures DNA, the engineers saw something "special" in it. They mixed the DNA with the black goo and formed a catalyst for the "perfect bioweapon". Although I don't think the engineers knew the full potential of the catalyst at the time. They didn't figure that out until they were able to see what the catalyst could do. They either experimented with the catalyst, using the bird creatures as hosts, or something went awry, and it started infecting the engineers. Either way, they figured out that the end result was the perfect weapon. Aka the Deacon. They pursued this bioweapon for one reason or another. Maybe they had more enemies. But even if they had to experience a catastrophe in order to fully understand the bioweapon, with the engineers being the way they are, I think they would consider that a small price to pay for creating the perfect weapon.
If they did create them, I imagine it started like the opening scene of Prometheus, with them seeding a planet with life. Then they came back to check on things from time to time. Eventually they see that the life evolved to the bird creatures. The engineers reveal themselves to the bird creatures as their creators. Thus making them submissive to the engineers. The engineers start studying and doing experiments on the bird creatures DNA. Once again, they see something special in their DNA. Again, they mix the DNA with the black goo, creating the catalyst. They experiment with the catalyst, probably using the bird creatures as hosts. Or, something went awry and the catalyst started infecting the engineers. Either way, the result was the perfect bioweapon, aka the Deacon. I think the engineers saw their new creation as vastly superior to the bird creatures, thus they created something that "surpassed" the bird creatures.
I know both of those scenarios are similar, but I just wanted to be as thorough as possible.
Whether the engineers created the bird creatures or not... it seems as if the engineers recognized that this species had something "special" in their DNA.
Maybe that "special" thing was that their DNA was easy to manipulate and experiment with. Or maybe they recognized right away that they could be used as a weapon.
We know the engineers needed a weapon for one reason or another, whether it was meant to exterminate the humans they created on Earth, or for some other reason (perhaps a war of some sort).
The end result of this "perfect bioweapon" is in fact the Deacon in the mural.
I think the engineers were proud of this accomplishment. And I think the purpose of the mural is to show the creation of this "perfect weapon" that they were so proud of, from start to finish.
I think the vases in the mural room contained the DNA/black goo, aka the weaponized form of the black goo.
The big catastrophic event that happened on LV-223 was that the engineers somehow lost control of this weapon.
Okay that's my whole theory!
I know this thread was about whether the bird creature is a representation of the eagle that eats Prometheus's liver. And the above statement is my long answer. My short answer is: I think it is possible that the bird creature is a representation of the eagle. It would fit in with the whole theme and symbolism, and wouldn't surprise me one bit! But to me, the bird creature looks submissive to the engineer. So that, plus all the other pondering I've done and all the theories I've read, lead me to my long-winded theory I stated above.
So I wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the topic, and possibly offer another way to view the mural/fresco, and the whole mystery of the movie Prometheus in general.
I hope these mysteries are finally brought to light in Alien: Covenant, and I'm super excited for this film!
If anyone reads this and has any thoughts on my theory please let me know! I know I'm late to this discussion but I figured it was worth a shot!
Posted Nov-03-2016 9:10 AM
Amazing theories guys...the fresco could be a representation of the myth of Prometheus...also could be the Starbeast of Dan O'Bannon...and also could be inspired by Alien Monster IV by H.R.Giger:
But what about the green crystal?
Perhaps it is a fossil which contains the DNA of a primordial monster, like amber:
And the black goo extracted DNA from the beast to create similar life forms:
And I still think about the parallelism with the myth of Prometheus. Perhaps an engineer was sacrificed (as punishment?) in order to create the monster.
Posted Nov-03-2016 9:55 AM
A lot of what you put is similar to what has been discussed and indeed to a degree how i see it, the Birdy if we can call it that does IMO prove to be the Missing link.... but maybe it is nothing... but going for it being important then the Prometheus Mythos could fit.
Where the Engineers was maybe sent down this as a Punishment and the result of the Punishment did not destroy the Engineers but instead now showed them some creature they could experiment on to obtain their own Bio-Weapon Retribution against those who attempted to Punish them.
But then you also raise the Question of what if this Birdy Xeno was Found, this could be possible, or as you also said what if they created it... again possible.
The way it looks is that it has to hold some Ancient Key to the Xenomorph DNA Strain, thats the path i was lead to which in a nut shell means as you said.
1) It was something they came across and Re-Weaponized
2) Its was something they created (accidentally or intended?) and then Re-Weaponized.
3) Either of these had occurred but the Birdy was used against a Faction and this Faction then Re-Weaponized it.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Nov-03-2016 9:58 AM
Indeed that one HR Giger piece of work does have Wings and could fit the bill so to speak of what we saw in the Fresco, also indeed the Giger Alternative Face Hugger as shown also had like beaks and these are within the Mural in Prometheus.
The Alien Concept Work and Mural which this Face Hugger came from, to me seemed to show the Engineers Self Sacrificed themselves to create/procreate these creatures
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Nov-06-2016 1:52 AM
Thanks for your response BigDave. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who thinks these things. I was scouring through the forum for awhile and saw some similar stuff so I decided to join give my take on it.
And you're right, the bird creature (I called it that to keep it simple) could be the key to everything, or nothing! Although I do think the mural/fresco is too detailed and prominent to mean nothing.
And it's very interesting to think about the role of the Engineers in the grand scheme of things. Are they supreme beings or just pawns in a much larger scale operation? Is their purpose to travel the universe and experiment with DNA to make biological advancements (much like Weyland in his search for immortality) to save their species or perhaps another species? Is the black goo even theirs? And if not, are the aliens some kind of punishment for stealing it and creating life when they're not supposed to? If that's true, maybe they initially viewed the aliens as gods but then came to find out they were actually a punishment. Or perhaps they view the aliens as the next evolutionary step for their species, but the goo reacted with the wrong creature and created a much more evil creature that set off a chain of events that spiraled out of control.
So many questions and theories! What it all comes down to for me is... How did the Engineers come to find out that these aliens could be created, and why do they hold them in such high regard?
I can't wait for this movie!
Also shambs, you bring up good points as well! I have always wondered about the green crystal, and why it was a cup at first. I can't even begin to wrap my head around it and how it fits with everything though (mostly cause everything else is already so damn confusing!), so I didn't touch on it in my theory :)
Posted Nov-21-2016 9:16 AM
Wow, I'm having a great time reading this site. There's a brotherhood here for sure. Reminds me of MGTOW
Anyway, I think we're all nailing the plots dead on. That's beautiful artwork up there.
I think you're correct. The original goo was found in specific species the engineers discovered on a hostile world. The Birdies were that species. The engineers conquered them and used birdie monster DNA to reweaponize the Goo, perfect it and create the perfect weapon. They now use the Goo to sterilize new found alien worlds. Upon find the new habitable world, they do the ceremony where a lone Engineer will give his life, drink the goo, this kickstarts a mass extinction event where the xenos kill everything. But I think its true too, what some have said, that the goo combines with the Engineers DNA while its all breaking down. That once the Xenomorphs kill everything, the basic blueprints for desireable evolution blocks are their. Its like they cleanse new planets they find. They wash away the existing native species and start building the life that they want to be there. The Goo and Xenomorphs are the tool they use to do the cleansing.
Posted Nov-21-2016 2:18 PM
The Goo was shown to be theirs... originally that is.. who knows now... The Original Idea included the Elders and the Sacrificial Goo which was different to the Black Goo... i have covered this a lot and so i dont want to go over and over in depth.
But i thought the Black Goo was the result of what happens after the Sacrificial Goo, i.e what if the Sacrificial Engineer consumed that stuff while he was in a VAT or a Container of sorts... and the broken down Material then instead of going into the Water Fall... it collected at the bottom of this Container the Engineer was in and the resulting broken down material mixed with what everelse in that Goo... was then collected and placed into Jars.
Would then pouring those Jars of broken down Engineer + What ever else that Sacrificial Goo produced.. not lead to the same effect?
I held this theory for a while... before Spaights draft was leaked months latter and it pretty much showed the Scarabs as the same as my Goo theory... which Lindeloffs Goo was based off his Scarabs.
I covered it in more depth... but also linked how the Altar had the Sacrificial Bowl instead of the Crystal Originally, also how the Mural was in Sacrificial Pose... which the Engineer took in Spaights draft too.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Nov-21-2016 2:25 PM
So yes the Goo was the Engineers, but at this time we had Elders and Rebellious LV-223 Engineers.... now maybe the Elders will be removed completely..
But regardless the Goo was a Tool the Hierarchy above the Engineers used to Create/Manipulate Life.
Maybe the Elders or who ever now replaces them could have found it, or Stole it who knows.... of if the Elders are replaced... maybe the Engineers are like David is to us... and they are used for various purposes and one is to be Sacrificed to create Life/Seed Worlds with the Sacrificial Goo/Tool of the Hierarchy above them..
The LV-223 Engineers had then Stole this Technology from their Hiearchy and used in in ways not intended and against the wishes of the Hierarchy...
This or close is one element i think that was being shown and one Theme that i still think will be followed at least to a degree still.
Indeed so many ways it could all fit... many theories and we cant come to one that is 100% what is going on, for everyone to agree on....
Besides i think the whole real Plot is something Evolving behind the Scenes and so what ever Alien Covenant and sequels show.. maybe some what different to what they started with before they worked on Prometheus... but i am sure after they finished Prometheus and Edited that movie... the broad strokes agreed back then would still be followed regardless of where they are taking it.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
Posted Nov-21-2016 2:31 PM
Ok i will try and cover my theory on the Bird Thingy...
Its either something unleashed on the Engineers as Punishment or comes from something unleashed on the Engineers as Punishment.
The result of which did not kill them all off... and instead produced something they then favored and held in high respect and regard.
They then using the Sacrificial Goo experimented on this Organism's DNA create a hole host of things until and in the persuit of Perfection...
Which the Mural was a representation of the Perfection they then obtained or hoped to... I think they achieved it... and then Re-Weaponized it with the Sacrifcial Goo again to then deploy in those Urns..
To then use to upgrade Life on Worlds, the Engineers role was to play a part in this creation and Honor it... they took advantage of is and tried to corrupt and gain Dominion over it.. (being various Life they was tasked with included Mankind) for this they was punished.. as stated above.
Now these Engineers had created something they saw as Perfect and it was this Organism (Mural) that they saw its DNA as more Perfect than even their own and their creators... and they chosen to use this Black Goo DNA to then Upgrade Life they had created to now take after the Perverted Perfection they created.
Thus they saw its DNA and Perfect for seeding as opposed to their own which the Sacrificial Scene implied.
We was wrong!! soooo Wrong!!
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