Long time fan of the Alien story. And I'm looking forward to A:C and A:5.
What I would like to explore a bit is the military involvement in the saga, for better or worse. I know some of you don't want to see any mil-spec involvement, and for good reasons. Hollywood has been an epic fail at depicting actual warriors at work. And Cameron's cartoonish depiction of soldiers in Aliens did nothing to dispel that notion.
I would submit that no space mission should be without some security element, be it exploration, colonization, or just space mining.
We have seen this concept ignored, mis-used, and marginalized in Alien, Aliens, and Prometheus, respectively. If done right, I think effective security forces would enrich the texture of the story, without over-powering it.
I don't think advances in weapons, armored EVA suits, etc. have kept up with advances in space travel, androids, etc. in this franchise. Imagine soldiers, such as the Spartans from HALO, up against Aliens, as in this excellent artwork by rahll.
By giving us rough parity with opposing forces, as it were, we could fight on even terms, instead of running in circles, screaming and shouting every time a Zeno shows up.
Now some might say this takes away from the themes of average guy or gal, in tight situations, and how we adopt and overcome, etc. But for cryin' out loud, how long are we going to keep running from these things instead of kicking a little ass?
DIZ - I would actually enjoy seeing military personnel in the next set of films. Warriors and their gear bring a powerful sense of strength and capability to any operation! However, I do not desire to see soldiers displayed in a negative and/or foolish light. Every civilization on the face of the world, past and present, came into power and remained in power because its interests rested upon the backs of its warriors. :)
Very true. I don't want to see any more pseudo-grunts that belong in comic books either. So far, they didn't make any impact on the story. That's because they had out-dated equipment, no effective T,T,P's (Tactics, Techniques, Procedures), and ineffective leadership.
It is extremely frustrating, from my POV, to see these scenarios run, in which effective response to extreme aggression is totally lacking. Well, maybe not totally, but very hap-hazard, learn-as-you-go stuff.
Imagine superbly trained and led troops, with REAL state-of-the-art firepower, armored suits, and the ability to stand and fight against zenos, engineers, moonbats, whatever.
Again, not to overpower the story, but to enhance it, with some kind of response, other than freeze and die.
I realize it's not going to be a perfect solution. People will still fight and die. But at least they would go down fighting.
I don't know about you guys, but the fact that engineers were heading to our world to exterminate us pisses me off. I don't want to meet them; I'd like them to meet my MK 26 Mod 0 pulse rifle.
But that's just me.
I think this is something Fox was getting at a while ago... i think when they changed Spaights Draft and got Lindeloff in to make a Less Xeno/Alien movie...
Then how Prometheus 2 looked to explore new things and go further from Alien... Before Fox had a change of mind and yep seem to think the Xeno is what would sell the Franchise..
I think that yes the FRANCHISE... is Huge... even expanded Franchise.. such as Prometheus... the franchise does not have to be about the XENOMORPH and RIPLEY
Ok yes the Alien Franchise does as in the events that occur after Mankind first finds the Derelict on LV-426.... But the Franchise opens up the possibility to branch off in SPIN OFF Series.
Lets break down the Franchise...
*LV-426 and the Derelict... leads to the aftermath.. Alien==> Aliens ==> Alien 5/ or Alien 3 etc.
*LV-426 and the Derelict... as in post Alien, why how.
*Xenomorph, not only in the Franchise but its Origins and Why.
*The Engineers, and how they are connected to LV-426 and what LV-223 has to play in that role.
*The Engineers as in their Agenda and apart from the Xenomorph and Mankind, what else have these beings and their creators had their hands at creating in the Galaxy... HUGE SCOPE!
*Weyland Yutani Company and what these companies roles are, what else do they create and what other Agendas... how did these companies start and why the merger.. again lot of SCOPE as far as different aspects...
Weyland Yutani are more than a company possessed to try and get its hands on and fail with the Xenomorph.
*Androids... these are a big factor in the companies not only Weyland, but Yutanis also.
*Finally... the Colonial Marines... again is there job simply to deal with the Xenomorph.. what other conflicts have they delt with..? Android rebellions? other Alien lifeforms?
And so yes the Marines are one part of the Franchise that they could make a movie that is more serious, and maybe not even related to the Xenomorphs at all..
So the Franchise has a lot of parts and these parts could potentially be explored as Spin Offs...
And so yes the MARINES.. could warrant further exploration be it a well done Book, Comic or Game... or Short TV Series ... it does not have to be a Movie.. and it does not have to evolve Xenos..
But its if Fox would see such things as a big risk to pump a lot of money into... and so Books, or Comics would be maybe the best route to explore such things....
Or even a reference book purely based on the Marines, and maybe Weyland Yutani that has nothing to do with the Xenomorph.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
While I appreciate the idea of having a more competent military force take on some Xenos (good lord, the crew in Aliens were a joke) I think thematically we've already had that scenario in the franchise. Ill-equipped, yes, but keep in mind that the objective has never been to completely wipe out the Xenos. The company wants to capture it, study it, learn from it, harness it. So it kind of goes against the major theme of the franchise to send a team that is well-equipped to truly try to overwhelm and destroy the Xenos. Maybe if the series goes on long enough you'll get your wish.
So personally I like that Ridley is trying to tap into some new ideas with his films. To me he's exploring more existential spiritual and religious themes. They didn't have much military presence on the Prometheus mission because they were operating on the assumption that they were invited there. Our creators must be benevolent, right? NOPE, they're VICIOUS and VIOLENT if agitated!!
Good points guys. As I said this is a military perspective on things. Granted, Ridley probably has other themes to explore.
If it turns out you have a big, nasty galaxy out there, why not prepare for the worst.
I mean I applaud those who try and reach out with good intentions. I think that's great that we put our best foot/nature forward. However, when evil rears it's ugly head...
Just as an FYI, this what a security element would probably look like. Obviously you would scale it, based on the mission, and your estimate of the situation. But in general, let's say you have troops like the Spartans from HALO. So we build this on a SEAL Team model, which is basically what you'd want for either Special Ops troops, or former Spec Ops contractors.
To start with, a scientific exploration package. At a bare minimum, you would want one Platoon, with two being even better. So it would consist of at least two squads of 12 guys each (and I say guys generically; if gals can make the standard I have no problem with them being in the teams). So this is at least double what PW had onboard Prometheus.
Even on a commercial vessel on a mining mission. At a bare minimum you'd want a squad, with a full platoon even better.
What about a rescue mission? If you know there is a potential problem, with a whole planet, then I think sending two squads (or one platoon) was ridiculously low. Here is where you would want a whole SEAL Squadron, which would be two full Teams (of 4 platoons each) plus support troops. All up you may be talking 250-300 people. Now you are ready to kick some ass.
With a colony ship. At least one full Team, depending on how many processing sites we're talking about. May need a full Squadron.
So I realize there are other considerations here. Like commercial interests, and different agendas, both overt and covert. But judging from our track record, i.e. getting our asses kicked every time, you would think that somebody might think it's time to get a little more pro-active on force protection here.
Like the man said, hard to drain the swamp with alligators chomping at your ass. By the same token, hard to explore your origins and whatnot, with Aliens chasing you down the hallway.
How would all this impact on A:C? Well let's game it out. The colony ship shows up on this planet and meets a surly AI, who apparently has a nasty agenda. Very soon some creatures are created and attacking your people. With the OIC (Ofiicer in Command) of your security element as your 2IC (Second in Command), you would then have some resources to deal with these threats to your well-being. The threat of being over-run is very real. Therefore, what do you do? In the past, it's just running, and screaming, and collapsing in a corner, and getting zapped.
You cannot do your original mission until the threat is neutralized. So the Spartans step in with: a) a plan to protect the colonist, and b) a plan to take the fight to the enemy.
In my view, you cannot set up shop and colonize a planet (or explore for that matter) until you have set security and dealt with the threat(s).
That is the missing element here, IMHO, that is the cause for all the grief and misery.
If you keep getting punched in the nose every time you step out, then wouldn't you put something in place to prevent that from happening?
Yes, I realize my world-view is slanted towards preparing for the worst. But this is reality, is it not? The problem a lot of folks had with Shaw was her nativity in her approach to exploration. The answer to that is to be friendly in your contact with others. But have a plan to protect yourself in case it doesn't work out. Or the old chestnut: hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
I understand what you mean... as far as a WHAT IF THIS WAS REAL...... then what Protocols would be taken... and surely it would be more than we see in the Franchise..
I think what you are saying is if the company finds out about the £$""£ that goes down on Covenant and its related to LV-223 and if they find out maybe why that mission failed...
Then at very least by the time of Aliens the company would be a lot more prepared than they was in Aliens and would send down a much bigger force with more secure protocols and fail safes...
A lot would depend on how much the company know by 2179... or what Agenda those pulling the strings have as far as what they want to do with the information
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BD: Right on target again. It all depends on what intel, if any, made it back, and what parties got their hands on it. As was previously discussed, the controlling interests of W-Y are really murky. If the Science Div is really running things, and, if they are controlled by AI's, then you have a real shit sandwich here.
Our mission, and by that I mean humanity, is to explore and colonize to insure our survival. The AI's mission, it seems, is to destroy their masters. So the zenos are a pawn, so to speak, in this power struggle.
The AI's may want to unleash the zenos on humanity and get rid of us. Crazy members of our own race may think that the zeno can be harnessed and exploited. Either COA is extremely dangerous for us.
My view is that the things need to be destroyed. And then the androids need to be addressed.
So yeah, if your goal is to somehow capture alien tech, then the crews are totally expendable. Which totally pisses me off. Kinda hard on them as well.
I am very linear in my thinking. See a threat, engage it, destroy it. I am obviously very lacking in the Machiavellian realm of the corporate world. To me it would seem to be a no-brainer to include some kind of security force, and yet BD once again brings up the very good point that accomplishing the stated mission may not necessarily be the ultimate objective of the powers that be. Crews are pawns to be sacrificed in this ultimate game of chess.
And so are warriors. But at least that's what they signed on for. Death and destruction are part and parcel of their trade. When innocent civilians are left exposed to it, that offends my sense of honor. Your job is to stand between them and all the danger.
So yes, my ultimate fantasy would be a movie where the warriors are gathered, dropped into the fray, and decimate the foe. Or die trying. 'Til Valhalla!
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