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Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

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Vickers robot theory still lingers

Vickers robot theory still lingers

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 12:18 PM

We all saw Vickers get crushed by the juggernaut derelict ship in Prometheus. Janek asking her if she was a robot. Her strange behavior as representative of the weyland company and "daughter" of Peter Weyland raised questions that even the film hinted at.

Till this day I still question her paranoia and her attitude, and body language in the film as there maybe more to it.

She seemed very different than David, yet..similar....

almost a kind of jealous big sister to David. David refers to her as "mum".  I remember the Nostromo crew calling its ship "mother". It may not connect any dots but it's still very interesting to think about.

Vickers acted more like an android who was in denial of actually beying an android/synthetic/robot.

It echoes Bladerunner replicants who were indeed robotic... fighting their mortality and why they have animosity towards humans. Could Weyland been a fan of Tyrell and own a replicant as a sort of admiration and re-fashioning of his personal models? Giving her false memories of actually beying a biological daughter to Weyland? When he treated her so cold, was this the reason? Would this explain why Weyland considered David more of a son versus to Vickers? causing Vickers's jealousy towards David to grow like a step sister who hasn't been considered family? I know this topic is a bit wacky but replicants were so close to beying human that Vickers almost fit those characteristics.

What do you think?

 

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

Replies

MonsterZero

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 12:21 PM

Wow!

Very nice idea...I think it works!

Something Real

Member

76

Posted Aug-05-2016 12:35 PM

HAWLEY GRIFFIN - Hmm...most compelling! :)

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 2:17 PM

I think Vickers was played to be compared to David to make the connection of brother and sister and that enables you to see the distinction between mankind and their creations.

In Vickers we see the brutal honest reaction of mankind to her megalomanic delusional father, contrast that with the robot that plays along; Vickers baits, indeed celebrates to his face his coming death, whereas David tells the audience he wants him dead. Its the difference between immoral and amoral.

Vickers wants to escape the coming catastrophe David is curious.

Vickers riddled with protocol doesn't even work out how to avoid the Juggernaut, David on the other hand is way ahead always challenging in a passive aggressive way.

He opens the headroom door by "mistake" he is insatiably curious Vickers is continuously risk averse.    

If I am right that Shaw is already in trouble it makes sense that David with a payload of Goo would offer to return Shaw to earth. Luckily for earth she shows driven by her moral belief system some curiosity and wants to go on. Wow that was close. 

The echoes are there and I see how you make the connection but I believe it was to refract once again the creator/creation paradigm. 

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 2:52 PM

"What do you think?"

I've been hearing this for a few years and never seen anything approaching a compelling argument for her to be a robot.  What exactly is it about her "paranoia, attitude and body language" that makes someone think she's a robot?

If she was a robot why didn't she physically remove Janek from control of the ship and force Chance and Ravel to fly home?

And David calls her "ma'am", not "mum".

Facehuggers!

Member

132

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:09 PM

S.M. does have a point... If she was an android, she would've taken matters into her hands. It could've made a great climax.

Also I think that she's just jealous that her father likes David, a synthetic, more than Vickers, a human daughter. Family tensions.

But, I do agree with you! False memories and consciousness would tie gracefully into the story.

Great topic, upvoted!

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:09 PM

@S.M 

"I've been hearing this for a few years and never seen anything approaching a compelling argument for her to be a robot."  

It's been heard before because it's predominantly asked in the film...so the question lingered since 2012 and hasn't really been answered.

"What exactly is it about her "paranoia, attitude and body language" that makes someone think she's a robot?"

 

well that was the point of the post, just a silly theory revolving around "replicants" and how they act human, but aren't. ("More human than human" is our motto). And how Vickers does seem human all around but yet so do replicants.

they are hard to spot...replicants and Vickers seem resentful and also angry lol So my point is that even if she acts human,  is she really human?

@Michelle Johnston makes a good point about her beying just an opposite reflection of robots to human differences.

and thank you to everyone who commented and discussing :D

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:15 PM

@Facehuggers! @S.M 

Yes you guys have a point about her mutiny if she had evil intensions. But lets say she was angry at the fact that she's not "in" the plan, and just observing...David turns off his body camera and also Weyland doesn't respond to her with any care or worry.  It's almost like they dont want her to know everything in fear of her interference..who knows....but she thinks more like a human, ...like a replicant. versus david who follows orders and has no emotions..replicants have emotions...and fear... she even didn't want to come there...when her father died she couldn't wait to go home...she was just a supervisor and a disbeliever

replicants in bladerunner wernt taking over the world, they were victims who just wanted to live and run away and live life like a regular mortal. They didn't fight for Tyrell, they hated their maker.  Like maybe Vickers hates her father.... I feel if, and thats the BIG IF....that if she is a replicant. she was the emotional and less corporate like her father... and more of a attention deprived daughter caught in the middle of weyland's plans.....complying to it to please her father.. 

but this is theoretical and I'm not claiming she is a replicant..i am only suggesting it. :)

 

Vickers needs a Voidcomp iris test 

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

BigDave

Member

213

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:29 PM

I think they intended to tease it a bit more than we got but for all intensive purposes the way Vickers was, was to make us maybe cast doubt.. and ask.. is she a robot?

Lindeloff mentioned this..... bu then said she is not a Robot...  But who knows... all the clues would suggest though that no she is not a Robot so to speak.

Replicant or Clone?  Who knows..

Peter Weyland was 103 years old when he met his death on LV-223 we dont know how many years he may spent in Cryo-sleep type devices to extend his life... Micheal Jackson used to have like a cryo-pod to sleep in that was supposed to help him age less LOL

So in the future yes we could see the use of such things...

Ignoring that... Weyland Biologically would have been in his 60's when he became the Father to Vickers... assuming Vickers was born and Aged like a Human.

So its still possible Weyland could have fathered her... even if there is doubt... who is to say his Sperm had not been frozen from when he was a more fertile age?

So its interesting to speculate but i think Vickers was not Robot,  she could be a clone or replicant but i would assume she is 100% Human.

Happy New Year Folks!!!!!

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:32 PM

"It's been heard before because it's predominantly asked in the film...so the question lingered since 2012 and hasn't really been answered."

It was answered with Vickers inviting Janek to her quarters.

 

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:34 PM

@S.M exactly, thats the scene......

 

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:36 PM

So if the question was asked and answered - what basis is there for the theory.

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:37 PM

well it wasn't answered... although Vickers may had an "intimate moment" with Janek. doesn't really say anything, because even Pris (bladerunner) was a pleasure model with those human "functions".

and even Rachel was a "full range" new Nexus replicant, able to be Tyrell's "Neice" and also be a love interest to Deckard.

I must also point out her strength..when she yanked David threatening to cut his wire... Replicants have freakish strength

 

 

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:46 PM

Androids aren't replicants.

BigDave

Member

213

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:49 PM

If we are to speculate she was a Android... well when i was working on my Prometheus 2... i had a twist..

The company was in a mess.. there was a board meeting discussing what happens now... after 4 months no contact from Prometheus (Easter Time) it seemed the board of directors had to make plans for who runs the company now...

In Weyland and Vickers Absence it was the Nephew of Peter Weyland.... as Peters Partner was his Brother who was also old, and not in great health.

I had a board meeting with this Nephew... and we then get to see Lance Henricksen communicate that he is the heir of the company and he was about to start proceedings to allow his Son to take over.

Then we see a Briefcase being opened in another place, with a Screen like a Laptop and a message from Peter Weyland and it declared his assets to be left to Vickers.  We then see a Female Hand close it.

We then go to the board meeting as everything is being sorted and signed and announced about the change of CEO due to the event of assumed Death of Weyland and Vickers..

And we hear a female say not so fast...

It is Vickers... she shows the Will and Testament and as she is alive then she runs the company..   Her Cousin is very bitter at this...

Vickers then fires him, and points out all the shares of her Fathers are to go to her and so Peters Nephew and Brother are not a member of the board.

We see Weylands Nephew has a plan, he is interested in Military Applications of Weyland Company he is not all that interested in the Terraforming and would want to sell shares... and he makes a deal with Yutani to not only corrupt things and hack Weyland Files and Accounts.... but they inform Weylands Nephew of a signal from LV-223 and they have others..

Weylands Nephew then has proof that indeed Prometheus mission was destroyed and Vickers was supposed to be on the ship... but Yutani want a deal if they are to pass the information and proof...

They want all rights to the Synthetic Patents so they can use them for their own Synthetics...

They both realize maybe Vickers never went and it was a cover up by Vickers because she knew the stunt they would pull..... its hinted that from clues that indeed this Vickers had been on Earth all along.... in hiding for 2.5 years.

To deal with this Yutani dispatch Two Synthetics of its own to Assassinate Vickers, not quite as Human looking as Weyland David 8 models.. and they are dressed as Geisha.

They confront Vickers and have a fight Scene, where Vickers holds her own and kills one.... then is wounded by the other......

AT THIS POINT!  we find that this Vickers is a Android and was part of Weylands plans should Prometheus Fail and maybe he wanted Android Vickers to run the company over his own Daughter... because he has a better bond and favoritism to his Synthetic Creations.

Vickers 8 then destroys the other Yutani Android but she is found out as Weylands Nephew arrives and shoots her so she can not walk..

Then he knows a Android has no Human Rights and so the company is all his..... 

Oh his father dies, well is killed at the orders of his Son.. as Weylands Nephew is even more Megalomaniac than Peter Weyland himself.

 

 

Happy New Year Folks!!!!!

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:49 PM

S.M

"Androids aren't replicants"  

yes ur correct, i may have typed that in the post..but you get what I'm saying about Replicants

 

that also highlights the theory I'm making,. that she was asked if she was a robot (even android)...and didn't really answer........

and goes back to your

"Androids aren't replicants"

 

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

BigDave

Member

213

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:52 PM

"I must also point out her strength..when she yanked David threatening to cut his wire... Replicants have freakish strength"

They can have greater Strength....

But we also need to remember that David 8 was taken by surprise and only weighs 86KG and if we assume Vickers is strong for a female (look how she started press ups no soon as coming out of Cryo-Sleep)  then shoving a Humanoid that weights 86KG is not beyond the realms of possibility for a Human.

Happy New Year Folks!!!!!

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 3:56 PM

Good point! and I can dig that!... like i sayd its a theory lol ;) great discussion scified folks! :D

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 4:07 PM

In order to even have a theory you need points to support said theory.  Like 'Could Vickers be a robot because in this scene she does this and in that other scene she does that'.  For instance, if it was kept secret that Bishop was a robot, then the knife trick would be a something that would support the theory he was a robot.

I can't see any actual points being raised for discussion in support of the theory that Vickers is a robot.  Or a replicant.

Centauri

Member

71

Posted Aug-05-2016 4:10 PM

@S.M ok great, but if the post got you to respond and pick at a "thought"...then it did its job in my opinion.

Also you are trying to state FACTS, and thats fantastic and i respect that..personally i post things to stimulate imagination.

 

 

****

 

"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

            

BigDave

Member

213

Posted Aug-05-2016 4:16 PM

The movie gave supple hints to prove a mild Red Herring for us.. but it shows more scenes that support she was Human than the tiny red herring...

Its to make us wonder a little.... but the "my room 10 mins" was meant to show us that (ah ah) she is Human... but then we dont know if they had any Intimate Moments...  But the Scenes after support she is not a Android.

During the run up no one attached to the movie would deny or acknowledge the Robot theory... i am sure Ridley gave a red herring there could be more than one Robot in this movie.

Again its how do we know its a red herring and how do we know he meant it as such or even in regards to Vickers.

The other Robot could be the Engineer, they for all intensive purposes could be to their creators as David is to Weyland... a Creation a Tool,  only a Genetic and not Synthetic Robot/Tool

As far as Tyrell it was teased in some bonus material but until the movie or future ones makes a more direct or minor link, then we cant accept that Blade Runner and Alien are connected or in the same Universe..

Ridley said they could be.. but thats not to say they are... or even if they are its not to say that Tyrell has anything to do with the Alien Franchise

i am sure McDonalds are around in the year 2200, surely 2100 we know Rebok are...  but do we see McDonalds Corp involved in the Franchise? Nope..

That does not mean in the universe on Earth or even Mars Outposts they dont have a McDonalds.

And so yes as SM said... there is not proof to suggest that Vickers was nothing more than Human.

Still fun to speculate and offer alternative theories though.

 

Happy New Year Folks!!!!!

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 4:59 PM

I don't need proof - just something that might qualify as evidence that could be discussed.  Even a hint.

Aorta

Member

3

Posted Aug-05-2016 5:01 PM

We can only assume what happened between Vickers and Janek, we don't know. The actions following are no more conclusive than the actions preceeding.

I always heard it as 'Mum'. Why would he call her ma'am?

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 5:19 PM

The feminine of "sir".

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted Aug-05-2016 11:25 PM

@ The thread starter Hawley. 

I for one have no problem with people speculating and my sense is the people that run this site see it rather like the fan art as a positive creative input.

If people who are genuinely in the know are here in my view they should simply say so and suggest that people are on the wrong track. If we enter one of these conversations knowing for certain whats going on however hard we try and just play the argument the fact is we should say so. Art is not science but to treat it as if it is is limiting unless we know for certain what the artist intended.

I would much rather read a hundred daft well intentioned bad ideas than the one line put downs that exist outside of discussion forums. On this one you made me think why people come back to it and proves Ridley got it right. He was trying to make the connection so we made the disconnection it was an excellent piece of relativism between characters and shows once again that Prometheus is a many layered experience if you chose to invest in it. 

Lone

Member

17

Posted Aug-06-2016 12:40 AM

Exactly Michelle, very well put!

@S.M- Janek had doubts. At this point I would like to chime in with a few points which made me question Vickers human validity.

I wondered, why was she already out of her cryosleep chamber, needing no assistance, when the curious David came to her quarters, whilst others were suffering the effects of the two year freeze? 

The scene with her doing push-ups, as a way of limbering and heating up, put me in mind of Ash's little warm up routine. That little A L I E N riff, could be a hint at something more. [It also put me in mind of the physically powerful Zora, from BladeRunner.]

Lastly, Ridley actually stated in an interview from the set, that there might be two androids in the story! I've been trying [unsuccessfully so far] to find that clip.

To me, all of the above, were deliberate attempts on the part of Ridley, to pique our interest and make us question what we are seeing. 

I cannot say with any certainty whether Vickers is, or is not, an android, none of us can, but I feel Ridley quite deliberately planted some doubt.

After Prometheus' release members were hashing out this very same topic here on SCIFIED. It's one of many perpetual Prometheus topics!

So Hawley, you are quite right, Vickers robot theory does still linger!

 

 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Aorta

Member

3

Posted Aug-06-2016 2:56 AM

Maybe it's because I'm from the U.S., but here I wouldn't address anyone I know as Ma'am, unless it was 'yes ma'am' or 'no, ma'am', mock formality. 

I hear 'mum', but then I liked it that way, along with the other Britishness in the film.

S.M

Member

0

Posted Aug-06-2016 4:03 AM

"Ma'am" often comes out sounding like "mum" in some English accents.

 

"I wondered, why was she already out of her cryosleep chamber, needing no assistance, when the curious David came to her quarters, whilst others were suffering the effects of the two year freeze? "

Finally someone puts something concrete out there!

I don't agree, however. I always took that as simply displaying how much of an independent badass Vickers was. She's too tough to get sick after two years in hypersleep, and is ready to do push ups rather than chuck.

But, interesting point nonetheless.

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted Aug-06-2016 4:07 AM

Hi Aorta

I am English I am not a robot and I am woman and I find when I travel in Europe people call me madam, in Asia Ma'am. Rather than Madam Johnston which is a mouthful it tends to get contracted to thank you Ma'am and it will be the hospitality industry so thats what David is riffing and I hear Ma'am some people call me other names but we won't go in to that. Indeed butlers (asia africa) will always refer to their clients as Sir and Ma'am.   

In Australia where they made the movie (sorry is that a spoiler) the tone of deference is entirely absent. Usually they go straight for the first name or Mr or Mrs. 

Lone

Member

17

Posted Aug-06-2016 4:36 AM

Another thought I had regarding Vickers is that she overdoes the jealous-pouty-sulky-bitchy, hates everyone-and-everything vibe.

Is that because she is play-acting, over compensating, trying to convince [herself] that she is not an android?

Or is she simply a human female with PMT, which can turn the nicest of us, into dragons? :D

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Durp004

Member

0

Posted Aug-06-2016 6:12 AM

The thing I don't understand about this theory and haven't since it was first brought up when the movie came out is why does it matter? If she is or is not an android it doesn't really change anything in the movie. It matters so little to anything I can't see why she would be, like why even give a character that identity and never elaborate, or clarify, or at least have it effect anything that happens in the story.

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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