Posted Aug-02-2016 4:34 PM
Knowing what we know about Shaw and her beloved cross.....
If she traveled to the Engineer's homeworld...
Let's say, engineers were there, and not extinct.
Would they be surprised to see her wearing what they evidently have displayed in their ern room?
What would their reaction be towards her?
Would this be some sort of leverage on her part to strike a "covenant" with them not to attack earth?
Offering herself to them in exchange? as a form of self sacrifice? would she be looked at as a prophet?
Or would it make them upset? lol
"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop
Posted Aug-02-2016 6:33 PM
Why the cruciform MORB? Is crucifixion part of Engineer culture? Why crucify a MORB? Is that form an echo of their outrage over events on Earth? Or, is it possible the Engineers motivated the execution of Christ?
The opposite has long been supposed, with the argument against being that Jesus was obviously a human, not an Engineer. I don't buy that, certainly they could have produced a human tailored to their needs, or contacted one on Earth. So that's a possibility too. But, what if crucifixion was one of their contributions the Earth culture? What if they saw Jesus as a problem? Possibly Jesus was an agent of some other life form?
I imagine it's possible that there's more to Shaw's faith with respect to the big picture than we yet realize. A lot of big interesting stuff happened in Prometheus, the ^above^ screenshot feels like one of them.
There used to be a regular page in Heavy Metal called Galactic Geographic, if I remember correctly. It was great, each month a beautiful painting of extraterrestrial life accompanied by a paragraph or more of information, along the lines of National Geographic.
One stand out was a depiction of life forms on a windswept mountaintop, only vaguely humanoid in their composition. They had a priestly presence, and behind them was a row of crosses stretching into the distance, similar life forms bound to them.
In the sky were gigantic melon like things with a row of huge beaks floating in and eating the bound creatures on the crosses. It was really horrifying, desolate and hopeless, and there was just a sentence saying something along the lines of: 'anyone with any information about this image contact us at once'.
Anyway, crosses are chilling.
Posted Aug-02-2016 8:03 PM
HAWLEY GRIFFIN - You raise a very interesting question. Indeed, what would the Engineers think of a cross were they to behold one upon the body of an alien life-form - a human? I honestly believe they would have a reaction similar to that of an ancient Israeli seeing a cross being worn. They would likely be confused and have many questions! :)
Posted Aug-02-2016 8:27 PM
"S.M - I am familiar with Auriga as a constellation. However, you seem to be referencing a vessel or location. To what are you referring, may I ask? :)"
The ship. Resurrection is full of Christian symbolism.
"Why the cruciform MORB? Is crucifixion part of Engineer culture? Why crucify a MORB? Is that form an echo of their outrage over events on Earth? Or, is it possible the Engineers motivated the execution of Christ?"
Or it's their take on Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man.
Posted Aug-02-2016 10:37 PM
In the sub created mythos of Ridleys the Engineers would be curious at the evolution of a belief system of mankind whom they have helped to sculpt and catalyse, and then they would destroy her or possibly feed her to their experiments.
In artistic terms the mural, like the fresco and the alter with its ark behaving like contents are seeking to communicate an alternative vision of creation where a group of intergalactic appointed gardeners have sought to break their bond of sacrifice. To do that using echoes of the sistine chapel, vitruvian man, the annunciation and more broadly the Sumarian Legends, even using emblems from our own childhood (the teardrop ship) gives us a code by which to crack whats going on and gives the mythos depth.
What inserts a little bit of jeopardy is to place our real legends and belief systems (Christianity) and see how it goes up against this sub created mythos.
Elizabeth's role will be small but one of the curiosities of C O V E N A N T is will her plot point involvement be consensual, a trick she is unaware of or coercive and depending on which will she fall or lose her faith.
I suspect like Prom. all will be on the same journey just from their own point of view. In Prom. all were playing with fire in Cov. all will be looking to start again (re invent) and all break their Covenant in doing so.
Posted Aug-03-2016 11:11 AM
Good question. Dunno. But I suspect it might piss them off. Seeing us wearing one of their symbols would be like us seeing it on a talking monkey.
I don't think there will be any bargaining with this crowd. We are a sub-species in their eyes; creatures created to do their work. That we would confront and dare to bargain with them would be an affront to them.
The only leverage would be David's special sauce. Authentic LV223 recipe. That might get their attention.
Posted Aug-03-2016 2:59 PM
We dont know for sure.. who remains on Paradise before Shaw and David arrive and how much or little they know of Mankind....
If we assume they are aware of us, or at least that they can create Humanoids in their own image who may be slightly different from us, but similar then they would maybe be able to add 2+2 and see Humans must have been a out come of one of their seeding objectives at the very least...
As far as the Engineers knowing what a Cross is... it would depend if they see it, they would as we seem to have been shown have a spiritual/religious aspect to them and they may had had in the past things as Charms etc.... and so they would see the Cross at very least as being something like this.
Would they know a Cross and its connection to our Religions? it would depend...
As someone said (Something Real) they would maybe not recognize a Cross... A Ancient Israeli may recognize the cross or not, maybe a number of them see it and some may consider a connection but then maybe they wont...
Cross is a symbol of Crucifixion and Jews would have known about this prior to Christ... they would have seen the Romans use it... however we need to remember most Crucifixions never used a Cross... not in the Proportions of a standard Christian Cross (no Jesus on it).... Crucifixions where primarily done on a T shape.... sometimes a cross that is more like (t) well with the Horizontal piece of Wood more close to the Top. And so they maybe would or maybe not make a connection to a plain cross... But lets assume that the idea is as with Christianity and Crucifixions were always on a Cross rather than a T.... then yes maybe they would connect it?
Would Engineers? This would depend on if they have used similar methods of Punishment, or seen similar methods used on Earth....
I feel Ridley could play on this.... But we have to assume that they are still going the route where Shaw and David come across some beings related to the Engineers and these beings study Shaw long enough to notice.
The Cross could remind them of Sacrificial Pose... the Engineers are aware of this pose as evident of the Mural but this depends on if those on Paradise are aware of the Mural on LV-223
If so then yes, they could maybe make a connection..
Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man is mainly about showing ideal Human Form... Perfection... which the Deacon could also be a attempt... and so the Mural in Cruciform pose could mean Pursuit of Perfection and Sacrifice at the same time.
So there is a chance these beings would maybe make a connection, or at least question it... which David only then has to explain it to them a bit.. i.e a symbol of her God, Faith, Religion.
Would they notice it as a Sacrificial motif? how would they react to that, or if they knew it was what she worshiped... is well unknown... they could explore this in many ways.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Aug-03-2016 3:05 PM
The other thing is the Space Jesus... as 2000 years ago plans to destroy us.... Ridley did pose a none literal connection when working on Prometheus but they decided against this... but to basically have it that 2000 years ago... they saw how Mankind had fallen badly against the will of the Engineers and they attempted to send a messenger.. a Emissary who the Humans (Roman Empire) Crucified...
We cant be sure to take that literally, but i think they could be loosely on the same kind of thinking.. this does not mean Jesus was a Engineer... he could be a New Attempt at a Genetically altered Human.. a Hybrid who they would use to convey their message and plans... who we turned on..
If they had knowledge of this and if this is loosely the back story.... and they knew of the Crucifixion and how it used a Cross then indeed they (if they are aware of our creation etc) would certainly maybe make a connection then.
How would they react? This depends on what side of the fence these beings are, what their agenda is towards Mankind...
As far as any Covenant... i would say one Covenant would be after a failed attempt to destroy us... or destroy the LV-223 Engineers.... these beings had made a Covenant to never use or involve the Xenomorph or biology that led to it again..... but this was a Covenant too late... or broken by either another Faction or David.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Aug-04-2016 3:10 AM
He he! I hope that the Engineers will shove the cross down her throat and make her choke on it and also proving her wrong when it comes to her idea that they made us. This would make me satisfied when it comes to ending Shaw because there is not much to like about her, simply put. Unfortunately this means that she would be alive a lot of the time in the movie but they could have this scene and not have Shaw featured a lot. Noomi might be alright as an actor but I don't like the character.
Posted Aug-04-2016 8:17 AM
Characters can be evolved....
The Traumatic Events of Prometheus could change her... i am not sure Rappace is suited to a Action Type Character though... but she can Act rings around Weaver lol
Prometheus the Characters were never written to well, i am sure we can all agree its far from Ibris Elba, Charlize Theron and Guy Pearce's best performances.
I however think that Shaw's role will be minor one... originally David and Shaw were supposed to indeed find some beings on Paradise who were not a nice bunch of people... and as Rappace said... maybe they meet the Devil.... and so we had to wander how things end for her.
Well i am not sure how far in depth we are going to see what Paradise was like when David and Shaw arrive (if they arrived together) and what state the Engineers Culture and Civilization was in at that time.
And so indeed who knows what Shaw would find.... the Engineers did play a role in our creation.. but maybe the purpose is not as all ROSEY and with Good intentions as her Faith would seem to indicate...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Posted Aug-04-2016 1:46 PM
S.M: The act itself won’t prove her wrong but they could in some way tell her that her idea that they made us (mankind) was wrong because XYZ. Shaw thought that they made us but then the Engineers show that she was wrong so her faith becomes useless. I hope that this or something similar happens.
Posted Aug-04-2016 1:46 PM
BigDave: Maybe it could have changed her and I hope that it will but the way she was portrayed in Prometheus was just dislikeable and annoying.
Very few characters in Prometheus were good at all. The only characters that I liked were David and Janek (the captain), the rest were either redundant, annoying, or stupid. Having characters in small roles is fine but when most of the characters are badly written then it spills over to the small characters also because you have those that are supposed to be leads that act like fools (Shaw, Fifield, Milburn) and the other characters don’t have much of an impact in the movie then they small roles seem like a waste (about the redundant part). Weyland also felt like a waste in a way but I have seen a younger Weyland having some sort of talk in front of many people (thanks Youtube) and I think that they should have kept it although maybe cut down but so his main points across but having that part in should have made more sense.
I hope that she will not be in the movie a lot, I would prefer that and it would probably make the movie better in general because I don’t like annoying and irrational characters because they ruin the experience in general. She could be in the movie as a background character (think the mercenaries that Weyland had). Hopefully those that she thought were gods kill her, that would be an irony.
Posted Aug-04-2016 3:06 PM
"The Traumatic Events of Prometheus could change her... i am not sure Rappace is suited to a Action Type Character though... but she can Act rings around Weaver lol
Prometheus the Characters were never written to well, i am sure we can all agree its far from Ibris Elba, Charlize Theron and Guy Pearce's best performances."
I didn't see any problems with Elba, Theron or Pearce. And Rapace was decent - despite being of no fixed accent... She got a way to go before being in the same league as Weaver.
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