David(s): Strangers or sharing a 'darker' mission?
Posted Jul-25-2016 4:27 AM
Hi All :)
First topic I have started here, so apologies if this has been covered before. However, if my reading of this site is on point then it would seem one doesn't need much of an excuse to discuss any and all things ALIEN, even if covering old ground ;)
So, David! We know that Prometheus David (D1) will be on Paradise and we know that another perhaps less individualistic (doesn't dye his hair?) David (D2) will be arriving on Paradise with the Covenant.
Now I could ramble on all day as my mind wonders at the potential that AC has, particularly in relation to the goo and David; but my question is more focused on whether the two Davids are possibly working on the same agenda.
Throughout the ALIEN series androids have been known for being rather 'Company' orientated rather than 'people' droids (Bishop apart)- and there is obviously a hidden (from most human employees) agenda to discover, learn about and possibly capture a Xeno or related DNA.
If the Covenant has located Paradise more at random or by chance then I would be more inclined to believe that the two Davids have no connection, yet!
However, perhaps WY have info. on Paradise and LV-223 direct from D1. Perhaps WY is now run/directed by AI (covertly or otherwise)?
If the above is the case then it could be that D2 is a helper of D1 and they may be working together to try to capture, learn about or develop the Xeno for future uses - with the Covenant crew being the expendable assets or suitable test subjects. . .
Personally, I would kind of like the Covenant's mission to be a bit more random but it just seems too much of a coincidence to me if that is the case. The idea that D1 has more influence, power and knowledge than we may have first thought is truly terrifying, especially given that he is essentially 'unplugged' now - and who knows what he may have evolved himself (and Shaw!?) into given access to all the Engineers' tech and goo . . .
It could also pan out that D2 is more like a Bishop droid and perhaps fights against D1 in AC. That would be quite cool but I think we know who would be coming out on top ;)
OK, bit of a ramble there but what do you think will happen to the two Davids? Do you think there might be a previous connection prior to the mission or more something that will develop over the course of the film?
Be very interested to hear peoples' thoughts on this . . .
Posted Jul-25-2016 8:43 AM
Interesting theory. While David could have some deep loyalty to the company programmed into him, and sure, the new guy could be passing on new marching orders; my best guess is that David is way beyond humans pulling his strings. I think he has evolved to follow his own path. So whether the new guy is following company orders, or acting to protect his humans, in all probability, he will be opposed to David's "agenda" (said with a Ms Vicker's snarl).
But hey, it's all theory until we see the movie.
Posted Jul-25-2016 8:54 AM
In terms of continuity I would expect :-
David Prometheus to be have undergone huge development. To have survived 10 years, been exposed to the Engineer technology and now alone on the planet suggests he has mastered the tools and knowledge available to him which will be and I use this word very rarely awesome.
David Covenant is post David 8 and Pre Ash so he lacks an inhibitor which made Ash so dangerous. One would expect him to be a very dangerous employee covertly of W - Y.
My own view is the drama will be between them and doppleganger suggests replacement the Covenantee's may not recognise the difference between D. C. and D. P. Daniels may work this out first.
D P for me is a big deal and key to the journey of why the Zeno is Bio Mechanoid. DC may just be a plot point.
Posted Jul-25-2016 9:00 AM
Thanks, Diz. I'm more inclined to go with what you outline above but I do like the WY 'mystery/conspiracy' element that runs through the franchise and feel that the 'David' element could be a forerunner of this . . .
That said, I would imagine that D1 would probably feel/be vastly superior to D2 and would either look to recruit him or get him out of the way pretty quickly if he attempts to stop him (perhaps even fooling the Covenant crew into thinking he is D2?).
I do like how this could pan out though, and yes all theory, but speculating and wild imaginings are all I have for over a year . . . :)
Posted Jul-25-2016 9:26 AM
Hi MJ - "D P for me is a big deal and key to the journey of why the Zeno is Bio Mechanoid"
I have thought this myself and agree that the potential for David is indeed 'Awesome'! I can't quite get my head around this though as, so far, the original bio-xeno (ALIEN) came from an Egg -> human cycle. i.e. it had already been created 2000 (?) years before but for SJ's/Engineers or humans or who knows what? That's assuming the SJ was that old, as I think RS has alluded to. Hope that makes sense!?
So does David perhaps find how this was done and then attempt to recreate this with the Covenant crew/Shaw?
Have to say I am so excited by the potential of this film. At first the synopsis seemed a little vague and off topic, so far as a direct sequel to Prometheus; but as little titbits surface it seems that all the elements for a great intellectual and visceral delight are there.
Let's hope Ridley and Co. can pull this off!
Posted Jul-25-2016 11:45 AM
The way I read the story line, Prometheus and A:C are both prequels to Alien and Aliens, so David could possibly be the original creator of the big chap? Yes it may have the egg/facehugger/little chap life cycle but it could also have some interesting DNA with bio-mechanical properties, courtesy of David?
Indeed, we have a year to get this all sorted out!
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:01 PM
"My own view is the drama will be between them and doppleganger suggests replacement the Covenantee's may not recognise the difference between D. C. and D. P. Daniels may work this out first"
This would be a interesting idea.... we have some proof for this... but also maybe some contradiction.
First the Contradiction.... the Synopsis says "Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they believe to be an uncharted paradise, but which is actually a dark, dangerous world whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition"
But then this is ambiguous it does not have to mean that they find only David.... it could mean only person on Paradise is David... but not that he is the only person discovered by the crew... if this is the take then we have to ask about Shaw, if David is the only inhabitant on Paradise.
However if David is the only inhabitant the crew first find, and are led to believe he is the only inhabitant then Shaw could be brought into it latter... otherwise she have to be flash back.
But then this could work both ways as far as does the Synopsis mean the crew are aware of David... or not!
The surface of Paradise we see a Drop Ship maybe? but its some part of a ship that is blown up... maybe a Search party go down with the David Doppelganger they uncover something maybe there is just a few of them (or would they send the David on his own?)
And then David P then talks to David C so they exchange information (so David P knows a bit about David C and the Covenants mission). Then he chooses to dispose of David C and pose as this David...
Blows up the Ship, maybe he removed his hair to say it was burnt in the explosion.... and then he can infiltrate the Covenant ship...
So yes this is something that could happen.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:06 PM
I always felt the Synopsis Emphasized the Synthetic David... we know David was Synthetic.... did it need to be told again?
Then Fassbender mentioned that he would reprise his role as David 8 but he would also be playing a Doppelganger, which made me think one of them has to not be "Synthetic" which i first wandered maybe the doppelganger was not... maybe he was Human and who David 8 was made in the image of?
But the Weyland-Yutani Badge release showed us this mission is after Prometheus as far as when it departed and so maybe the Covenants David is not quite Synthetic but a Synthetic Construct like Elden in the Fire and Stone comics and so maybe he can be infected by the Black Goo or a Face Huger and this is where the Bio-Mechanics come from?
Either that... or the Synthetic.... means that David was Synthetic but he would not be by the end of the movie.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:09 PM
As for how the Covenant arrives... who knows... maybe for some it would be too much of a coincidence to end up accidentally arriving at the same place that David and Shaw was heading to...
But then its how would the company know and how much do they know?
As the Synopsis seems to hint to me that the crew would be surprised to find David 8..... or that they expected to find more survivors but only find David 8
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:13 PM
As for the Eggs on the Derelict.... yes its Bio-Mechanical... and some have wondered how Covenant leads to Alien... like they did Prometheus.. but Ridley had said before and over a few times the Space Jockey had been there for a long long time, even clarifying it as being within a few hundred years of the LV-223 outbreak that killed off all those Engineers.
The only way then that events of Covenant can lead to Alien is some kind of disturbance or rift in Space and Time.
However we have to remember the Juggernaught and Engineers Tech was Bio-Mechanical only not as Organic as the Space Jockey and Derelict looked.
So it would be interesting to find out when the Eggs that ended up on the Derelict where created etc.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:39 PM
What we know so far is
Goo to human produces Miss T foetus Miss T to Engineer = Deacon.
In the murals we see
Egg to Engineer and this produces mural Deacon.
Two elements I believe are missing.
How did the Egg come about I think it could be Egg Morphing of mankind probably Fifield and Holloway were on the way or because the Goo acts as a mutagen when taken directly certainly a mutation.
If this theory is correct when you bypass the blessed in gestation by a gardening Engineer and go Goo - Mankind you create a Zeno strain. The first consequence of this punishment on a small scale by the creature. The second consequence is biblical punishment as seen outside the headroom and the quarry scene.
The second element is the bio mechanical zeno morph.
David is coming with hell and a big idea. He is not merely getting his head back. I believe both Shaw and David 8 will be evolved and Shaw may set of the chain again but this time David is included.
All the hints about she is alive but only technically and David is a big idea the design of the new A L I E N the transparent version indicate he is part of this new event.
@BD I do not quite follow your reply. David 8 the "synthetic" is the only survivor of Paradise and David C comes with the crew. My idea is David 8 replaces David C but the crew do not realise the change but it explains how this remarkably different David infiltrates the Covenant community. How does that not work with the synopsis or am I missing something.
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:56 PM
@ DS and BD Eggs
Eggs have been created before, the Jockey may in the pre equals remain in the past, but David now has the tools and the knowledge to replicate the Eggs. The plot hole I see with the Eggs on the Derelict is they generate a Bio Mechanical A L I E N. So how can this be a new event in Covenant created by David unless the Jockey is between Covenant and A L I E N. The only way it can work is it is not a new event but the reintroduction of an old one.
Posted Jul-25-2016 1:58 PM
'But then its how would the company know and how much do they know?'
This question really does intrigue me! I think a big part of the fear/horror of ALIEN was finding out that not only had the crew been 'infected' with the Xeno parasite, they had also been totally abandoned and seen as expendable by their employers, who clearly had an idea of, or agenda relating to, the Xeno. Not to mention also battling with a rather twitchy company robot!
So yes, perhaps we will see glimpses into the origins of WY's involvement and interest with the Xeno in AC which may help add to the feelings of isolation and horror that the crew feel and we as viewers get a sense of.
I have no solid ideas (and don't want to try and be too exact for fear of being disappointed further down the line) but I do like the notion of androids being more active in the company than people realise - it would perhaps explain the lack of empathy, or perhaps I'm being too generous on behalf of humanity there ;) (think Burke, Carter, J, lol) This idea also potentially fits with the Prometheus mythology as David/androids are perhaps our version of what the Engineers may be to 'Elders'?
That said, a mission to LV-223 would surely happen after Prometheus which would go some way to giving the company a pretty good idea of what is going on . . .
'So it would be interesting to find out when the Eggs that ended up on the Derelict where created etc.'
Yes and no for me! :)
Yes because part of me wants to see how the SJ in ALIEN (which was so awe inspiring, mysterious and just amazing to see on first watch) ended up there, and how/why he had such a cargo and what that cargo is, exactly.
No, because I feel that by knowing everything it may actually detract from some of the mystery and fear that it initially brought to ALIEN. A bit like wanting to know the truth about Father Christmas and then being slightly disappointed to know it was your Mum and Dad all along ;)
However I think, if handled well, RS could pull of a masterstroke and kind of half-explain these events. i.e. enough info. to get a general idea without perhaps joining all of the dots. That to me would be ideal! Still love to speculate though lol!
Posted Jul-25-2016 2:13 PM
'The only way it can work is it is not a new event but the reintroduction of an old one.'
I wouldn't mind this but it would contradict my belief that the SJ had been there for a 'very' long time. I had thought that it would be very cool if perhaps the SJ we see in ALIEN was a mutated Covenant member, or possibly even a similarly changed Shaw; but I can't see how it would fit like you say unless David figures out what they were doing back then exactly . . .
Posted Jul-25-2016 2:32 PM
Maybe I am reading too much into this but is there anyone else that notices that there are two skulls in the background? I wonder if this means that the WY are bringers of death or if David or other androids are or that David from Prometheus is not to be trusted?
Posted Jul-26-2016 1:36 AM
@T_D - you mean the picture above? I did notice that but not sure it has any significance, it's good to speculate though :) I think the image is from the viral marketing for Prometheus which is showcasing the David 8.
I chose it because I liked the visuals and to me it kind of suggests David 8 is made very much in an assembly line type manner. This to me also suggests that each David made is as curious as each other and therefore potentially dangerous as PD. Although I always kind of imagined PD would perhaps be just that little bit different or more unique than other Davids as he was 'like a son' to Peter Weyland.
If another mission to LV-223 has happened post prom but pre AC, and a David 8 was aboard, then who knows what knowledge and insights he may have gleaned . . .
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