THE MURAL ROOM
Posted Jul-13-2016 2:57 PM
so i've been thinking long about this. the crucified xeno and so on. i'll try and keep it as short and fragmented as possible whilst not holding back on clarity.
plato: form and idea....a perfect poetic (poiesis in ancient greek = to bring forth) dimension where the perfect humans (Christ, God and so on) animals etc etc exist...also: the universe is a living thing.
angels: meaning messengers. implementing cosmic or heavenly orders.
xenomorph: a foreign form, perhaps ordered to be created.
more on xenomorph: always people ask: how do the xenomorphs see? perhaps the correct question is: WHAT do the xenomorphs see? (the black goo which is presumably one of the building blocks reacts to 'sin' as has been suggested. maybe the xenomorphs see 'sin' as well. perhaps their sense of vision is a supernatural or spiritual one.
the mural room and moon: atmosphere reacts to the presence of the people in the mural room. moon atmosphere seems to react to the actions of the people on the planet. eg: the head and the storm.
the question: from who comes the order? i think this is the question of all this. can we be sure the order is from God? and if it is, and we don't like that fact, then what does that say about us as a species?
hope i have got my point across ok.
Posted Jul-13-2016 4:17 PM
THANATOS_CONTAGION - Hahaha! Speak for your self! ;)
As for your post : I very much enjoy the amount of thought you have placed into the concepts you desire to convey! Indeed, there is much we do no yet know - and your post illustrates that remarkably well! :)
Posted Jul-14-2016 6:20 AM
Well ok if you want to approach from this angle. The Alien life form could be viewed as some sort of demon, connected with fallen angels, and the punishment of hell. But in most theological canon, these creatures normally do not have direct access to humanity. Until some sort of afterlife. So then this creature becomes the bridge between our two worlds?
I actually interpreted Ridley's work as the exact opposite, in that he seeks to offer a secular explanation for the creation story, and the concept of a "god" or religious creator vs just an "engineer", or advanced race, who happened to combine DNA to create a "science project" as it were.
Yes, they could be one and the same, as ancient man might have "worshipped" an advanced race, and set them up as "gods" simply because the technology was so far beyond comprehension.
In fact I think that's where Ridley is going with all this. Religion is just ancient superstition, according to him, and "God" is just an advanced race that "created" us by the manipulation of DNA.
So if you want to talk within religious terms, the Alien could be termed some kind of demon or devil, that was created by the "fallen angels" or maybe a sect of engineers that fell out of favor, according to religious cannon.
This is certainly the tack taken by Ridley with the references to Milton and "Paradise Lost". Again I think it is his attempt to explain our creation, in secular terms, which had nothing to do with the religious or supernatural, so to speak, as much as it had to do with super advanced technology.
I find it amusing that someone would re-connect the story back to religious terms, which IMHO Ridley is attempting to disprove.
Posted Jul-14-2016 7:56 AM
Well i think i know where you was going with the OP
And so i will not discus my theory of the Mural which i think is a Sacrificial Pose to show Sacrifice which the Engineers may had worshiped too.... or that gave them ever lasting life or similar.... many possibilities but i dont see it as God. or Jesus
But back to what i think you are touching upon as far as the Goo and Sin... how it reacts to Sin, there have been theories where some have said if there is Sin then it destroys and if there is no Sin it creates... i dont quite buy that idea, not entirely as if Shaw had not performed the C-Section she would have died giving birth no doubt and so yes she created life but would have been Sacrificed to do so and the Engineer likewise within that life cycle.
Fallen Angels has been referenced... by Ridley.
The Source had said some interesting things regarding the subject of Fallen Angels and Paradise Lost.... they said something like the Punishment for the Rebellion of Angels and being turned into Serpents is connected and that the Engineers view the punishment as a release from bondage.
They also said that Sin as in regards to Paradise Lost is relevant as without Sin there would be no Xenomorph.
Now they was vague as usual and so dont give the direct answers.... so by Sin do they mean the sin as in to disobey against Gods wishes and the Punishment lead to the Xenomorph?
Or do they mean Sin as in Satans Daughter who was born from his head as punishment for his Rebellion against God... this Sin is constantly in labor and a hybrid with a serpent and gives birth to hybrid serpent hounds of Hell.
if the source is correct, then i think these two are the likely reasons he must have been giving clues to... but it could be other reasons i just think within context of Paradise Lost which they say is loosely connected.
Ridley said Engineers are Fallen Angels... he said Paradise Lost is connected.
A 3rd of Angels joined Satan in Rebellion and most of them where punished and changed into Serpents
Their Leader Satan, was punished too and gave birth to Sin (Daughter) via his head and he had no recollection of the event until he came across her guarding the Gates of Hell
Well Ridley has refereed to the Xenomorph as a Serpent before but he mostly called it the Dragon, which in the Bible and Paradise Lost the Dragon/Serpent mean the same thing or from same thing.
So could this be Fallen Angels are evolved to Xenomorphs or related as a Punishment well at least a portion of them?
The Face Huger gives birth via the head... it latches onto the head to plant its Embryo which Gestates inside, and victims often have little memory of the event.
Could this tie in with Satan being Face Hugged to produce Sin? a Hybrid Female and Serpent?
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-14-2016 8:01 AM
As far as the Mural Room and the effects on the Atmosphere who knows maybe you could be touching on something... some did think the Leviticus 22:3
Passage could be relevant, but then the Goo also affected the Engineers so they are unclean too? But we have to assume the Goo/Room did not always react to them it was a outbreak and they had set up that room and Murals etc and their Space Jockey suits may have something to do with not affecting that Room
And they did try to run to that room.... so i think it was a Sterile and Clean Atmosphere that somehow not only preserved the Engineers Head but also prevents or slows down the spread and speed of infection with the Black Goo.
In a uncontaminated Environment that the room was supposed to be those Urns are not activated.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-14-2016 11:16 AM
"In fact I think that's where Ridley is going with all this. Religion is just ancient superstition, according to him, and "God" is just an advanced race that "created" us by the manipulation of DNA."
right, but the point is that obviously something that these angels did with regards to our creation had a negative impact on them and the way the universe functions so i dunno if you can just wash this story away in a secular form. i don't know if it would be good to throw it away as a secular story because, well it's the purpose of the existence of life and the ethics that surround life itself which are at stake. i mean you don't want to be charlie holloway who maybe naively proclaims that the creation of life is no big deal at all, or words to that effect.
i just find it difficult to accept the secular stance given the amount of suffering humanity has gone through at the hands of its' own kind....slavery, famines, lynchings and other extreme levels of depravity. i'm not against nothingness, but i think how you come to define that word says everything about what we are as an idea.
Posted Jul-14-2016 12:08 PM
and also to elaborate on this issue. look, the atheist says there is nothing after death, the believer says there is something after death. who is right? lets break that down, the atheist says with the word nothing, that there is NO INANIMATE OBJECT after death, the believer says that there is SOME INANIMATE OBJECT after death. who is right? because both the atheist and the believer seem to contradict their stance. the atheist by his placing of no inanimate object after death, in essence supposes that an animated and living entity exists after death, due to his or hers rejection of objects. the believer on the other hand rejects the idea of a living God and says that the afterlife is the place where inanimate objects dwell. do you see what i mean with this?
in short: the lack of inanimate objects is not 'nothing' and the presence of inanimate objects is not 'something'.
Posted Jul-14-2016 1:31 PM
I can't speak for BigDave, but personally, the true purpose of the Black Stuff still remains very ambiguous.
In the opening scene of Prometheus we have an engineer or elder (we still don't know for sure yet if the engineers and elders are members of the same race.)
He consumes a substance which appears to be the black stuff combined with something else, (I'm colour blind so I don't know what colour the other thing is. Some have said it looks like gold, but obviously, I don't know that for a fact because I'm colour blind.)
So, this other material (gold) may have some significant relevance in answering why the substance in the opening scene appears to have a different effect to the LV223 goo.
The black stuff we see on LV223 doesn't appear to have this "gold" element combined with it in the urns?
Because it's so ambiguous (especially to me) we are forced to use our imaginations to a great extent.
At the moment, most of us are under the impression that the black stuff in the urns is Giger Alien/Morb DNA, or atleast contains it as a combination of other elements.
Indeed, it may very well contain the DNA of the Engineers.
However, there is a big visual cue of what the urns may contain. That visual cue is the Alien/Deacon in the mural. It is in a cruciform pose which suggests that it was sacrificed for some reason and whatever is in the crystal on the alter in front of it contains it's DNA.
You will probably know that in the trailer the crystal wasn't there. Instead it showed the sacrificial bowl similar to the one from the opening scene.
But is the substance in the urns the same substance that's in the sacrificial bowl or crystal?
Maybe it will all be explained in Covenant.
Posted Jul-14-2016 1:42 PM
necronom thanks. i was basing my assumption on the black goo being engineer blood off of the opening scene. when the engineer sacrifices himself, he bleeds black into the water. the head that blows up bleeds black from the ears before it explodes. now, the issue then becomes this if we assume that the goo is engineer blood: it seems to be a spiritual substance, like this:
in any case, the black goo seems to be an ethically loaded substance that generates and mutates forms according to some kind of wrath.
Posted Jul-14-2016 1:54 PM
Yes Eitr. I started a thread about that a while back. But I've also made many other threads about the black stuff and what it truly is.
There's a part of me that wants to know everything about it. But then I think 'will the answer I'm given be satisfying?' the answer is, probably not.
It reminds me of the monolith in 2001 a space odyssey. For a long time people were debating what it was and now we all know what it is.
Posted Jul-14-2016 2:16 PM
I know I've asked this before and I think it was Major Noob who answered my question. I think it was a thread titled "Whispering wives" in which I was asking what colours were in certain elements of the film (Prometheus.)
Can someone tell me what colours they see in the sacrificial cup, in the opening scene of Prometheus?
And do those colours appear anywhere else in the film?
Posted Jul-14-2016 3:03 PM
"And so i will not discus my theory of the Mural which i think is a Sacrificial Pose to show Sacrifice which the Engineers may had worshiped too.... or that gave them ever lasting life or similar.... many possibilities but i dont see it as God. or Jesus"
sacrifice for what though? this is the question, why are they sacrificing themselves to create life? simply because they can? i really doubt that such an advanced race would sacrifice and create life for the sake of sacrificing and creating life...that level of arrogance would have seen them dead and gone as a species million of years ago. no...i think they're getting orders from someone to do it. and that's also why the engineer breaks david....it's his way of telling the corporatist weyland:"YOU DON'T GET IT YOU MORON!"
Posted Jul-14-2016 3:39 PM
Oh boy..... here we go LOL
This is going to take ages as well there is a lot of connections and theories so i dont know where to start...
So i will start with this...
"is the black goo just engineer blood?"
100% No.... as far as 100% Blood... its definitely not.
But yes the Engineers Blood is black, or black ish and very dark so it could be very dark red, blue, purple but most likely black..... Further proof is when the Engineer is shot
The Goo in the Urns yes goes black, but they are not black inside.
They have what look like Glass vials, that contains a substance that is cloudy a bit, maybe like dirt added to water it is something organic held in a liquid... that when poured out it, it has a dark color but its not black and it also looks like microscopic organisms are inside of it.... maybe like Semen is...
However the these ampoules seem to be encased in a grey slimy material
The reaction to atmosphere in the room must cause a reaction where the Glass vials are dissolved mixing the substance inside with the slime on the outside to make the Black Oil like Goo, it causes a reaction that produces a lot of Black Goo from what appear to be smaller quantities of two other ingredients.
So it is not Engineer Blood, but the chemical inside is either related to the Xenomorph DNA... maybe its the DNA of the Deacon Mural..... and the outer chemical slime is a accelerant or its vice versa and slime contains Xeno DNA and the Black compound inside is a accelerant
Thats how it all looked...
The Sacrificial Bowl/Cup had a kind of thick Metallic Material like say a Frozen Yogurt or thick cream consistency that then reacted and started to bubble and break down where it then did have some parts of it a Gold/Bronze Color...
This substance was some kind of solid like a Mousse that then melted and it would be like maybe having a frozen cup of butter that is then exposed to heat.
Its hard to explain what it really is as far as texture but its something that started more solid form that then reacted to the Air....
This then mixed with the Engineers Body then seemed to break down his Genetic Material also causing his material to turn into a black liquid... but his blood was also most likey black too.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-14-2016 3:53 PM
Thats just the Atheistic of the Goo in its two forms..
As for its purpose... well as far as theories and supporting evidence its been covered a lot as its pretty open...
I will in a nut shell cover the varients as far as the Idea and Concept.
1) Spaights draft the Cup had a Sticky Bowl of Cake like Material, that dissolved into Nano Scarabs, these then ate and broke down the Engineers Genetic Material. These Scarabs then contain and store that Material and then anything they bite they then inject that Genetic Material into the victim and causes their DNA to Evolve and take on board traits of the Organism the Scarabs had consumed DNA from.
2) Lindeloffs replaced the Scarabs with a Mutagen/Goo that started off as a thick like hard butter substance that melted down.... We latter see the Urns contain a Black Material Goo that evolves Organisms in contact to have Xeno Traits... But as prior the Urns contain a number of elements to them... a outer Slime based Goo, and a Glass vial inside that contains a substance inside and the two mix to produce the Black Goo, this merging seems to be able to produce a substance in great quantity.
However the substance within the Glass Vial on its own can also contain Xeno DNA and did not need the outer slime to be of use..
Maybe the Substance in the Glass vial needs a liquid for it to be effective.
Both of these showed us maybe a different substance... one from the start and the urns.... the urns maybe being the after result of exposure to the Sacrificial Cup contents..
Hense Sacrificial Pose on the Mural and the Sacrificial Cup on the Alter (replaced later by Green Crystal)
Spaights Scarabs makes it more clearer, if we look at the contents of the Urns in his draft, they are knocked over and contain Nano Scarabs who instead of breaking Fifields DNA down, they inject him with DNA that has Xeno traits... like how the Sacrificial Scarabs after they consumed the Engineer DNA, they bite a primate and transfer Engineer DNA that leads to us.
3) Fox then came up with a explanation for the Goo, but it mainly dealt with the Urns and is well contradicting.
4) Fire and Stone tried to show the effect of the Urns similar to in part Fox's Weyland Files as above (3) but also with similar effect to Prometheus.
5) The source said the Goo was Originally a Parasite, but then they have evolved it further to be the source of EVERYTHING as far as Creation.
So to try and work out exactly whats going on is hard.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-14-2016 4:01 PM
The source claims and again i cant guarantee they are correct.
The Goo (they dont say which one, so maybe we are to consider only ONE GOO) that it should be considered like the Forbidden Fruit, and its a Tool of Creation but also Destruction.
Yes maybe Eitr can be used as basis, it could seem similar and yes it comes from a Serpent in the Norse Mythos.
Also look at other Serpent related things a number of religions and mythos have it that Serpents Blood can be the giver of life or the taker away.
Such as Gorons... some Greek myths say that Blood from the Right side could bring dead back to life and from the Left side instant death.
So maybe it is the Blood of something?
There are myths that replace Fruit of a Tree with Blood... and so who knows what if any connection and i hope the next movie gives us some answers.
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
Posted Jul-14-2016 4:06 PM
Indeed it does not appear black only when it actually is consumed it seems to internally turn black... but this could be the Engineers Blood.
The Engineers DNA changes from a sand color to black the breaks apart.
But he stuff in the Cup looked like some Metallic like thick substance like a Mousse that then melted away to reveal like a hollow honeycomb pattern or like Moose having Air Bubbles and these seemed to have a mix of Metallic colors and was bubbling
Happy New Year Folks!!!!!
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