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Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-12-2016 3:33 PM

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S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPJul-12-2016 3:47 PM

It was premature.  Or it would've burst from Ripley 8.

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJul-12-2016 3:51 PM

Because ADI felt they had license to do whatever they want, and felt empowered to 'improve' the designs, without respect to Giger or continuity. It was their piece of the pie, and they could have at least accepted their limitations and/or behaved with some class, but their eyes were bigger than their heads. History has had the last laugh on those jokers.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPJul-12-2016 4:24 PM

Or, you know, it was premature and not fully developed which makes perfect sense.

But let's not miss a trick at lazy criticism though...

brego

OvomorphMember81 XPJul-12-2016 5:19 PM

All of above and possibly mutated due to cloning.

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJul-12-2016 7:22 PM

'Lazy criticism'

Well I am feeling relaxed.

Gavin

TrilobiteAdmin9516 XPJul-13-2016 1:28 AM

While it is true that Tom Woodruff Jr. and Alec Gillis, the founders of Amalgamated Dynamics (ADI) may have learned their craft from possibly the greatest practical effects creator of recent times, the late Stan Winston, and while it is true that ADI along with John Rosengrant's Legacy Effects is one of Hollywood's leading practical visual effects companies their history with the Alien franchise is far from ideal...

Alien 3 - Aside from the rod puppet burster alien the movie suffers from having two anatomically different renditions of the antagonist Alien, with the rod puppet versions used in the shower scene and the movies cat and mouse climax (often mistaken for bad CGI), and the best designed Alien suit ADI ever produced, worn by Tom. While ADI did try to respect Giger's input, they did ultimately use a selection of his ideas (such as the lips, and lack of dorsal appendages) without giving him due credit.

Alien Resurrection - Many have referred to these Aliens as the Raptor Aliens due to the creatures appearance looking very much like black Velociraptors covered in too much KY Jelly. This rendition of the Alien was the most basic, most simplified and as a result the least impacting. Then there is the Newborn, which may have sounded intriguing on paper but in reality was one of the worst additions to the entire franchise.

AVP - Ever noticed how much the Aliens looked like those from Resurrection? The Aliens for the big crossover were created using the same molds used to create Resurrections Aliens.

AVP:R - Many thought the Aliens in AVP and Resurrection to be the franchise's low point until seeing this movie, with its generic movie monster design. So made and ill-fitting were these suits that more than once the heads can be seen "flopping" during the movie's action. Even the PredAliens design was confused. Nicknamed Chet and portrayed by Tom (again) inside the suit, the creature was reportedly meant to be a juvenile Queen.

ADI's problem is two fold - Firstly Tom Woodruff Jr's insistence that he be the one inside the "hero" suit, and secondly Tom and Alec's insistence that their ideas are always better than anyone else's. The late, great Stan Winston knew humility, often crediting his best creations as being the work of others and honoring the designs of those that came before him as he did with Aliens' Queen, which despite having been designed by James Cameron, bears a lot of similarities to Giger's Necronomicon designs.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPJul-13-2016 2:04 AM

"While ADI did try to respect Giger's input, they did ultimately use a selection of his ideas (such as the lips, and lack of dorsal appendages) without giving him due credit."

How are they supposed to give Giger credit?

 

"ADI's problem is two fold - Firstly Tom Woodruff Jr's insistence that he be the one inside the "hero" suit"

The performance of some of the Aliens in AvP:R that aren't Woodruff illustrates what a good job Woodruff does. Unfortunately he didn't have the physique in AvP:R and it was badly shot. Woodruff's performance was probably his worst in that flick, while still being pretty decent.

 

"and secondly Tom and Alec's insistence that their ideas are always better than anyone else's."

When did they claim this?

Gavin

TrilobiteAdmin9516 XPJul-13-2016 3:38 AM

Simple - Creature design by Alec Gillis, Tom Woodruff Jr., and H. R. Giger.

All of the Aliens, especially the PredAlien are the worse ones ever on the big screen, using recycled parts (Chet's dreads were from the molds of the tail from Alien 3), and bearing no relation whatsoever to the designs from the first two movies. A Tall slender woman (man if need be) would make for a better performer than an average built middle aged man, Bolaji Badejo is evidence of this.

In Alien 3 Giger's designs of a cougar-like alien were truly awesome. Woodruff and Jr. scaled back the design and claimed it was all their work by not giving Giger his due credit, or fighting to make sure Giger was given due credit. Giger's "Rib-Huggers", were also another ingenious idea that was not used whereby the Facehuggers hid in the chest cavity of the dead.

Don't get me wrong I'm not slamming ADI, they are one of the best in Hollywood, but regards the Alien movies they played their part in the creatures gradual normalization that saw it become a has been, a point Ridley Scott has also mentioned, and why he did not use ADI for Prometheus and probably won't be using them for Alien: Covenant.

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJul-13-2016 5:54 AM

I am slamming ADI because, as professionals in the public eye, it was their responsibility to credit the work that propelled their success. Rather than do that, they claimed to have improved the design.

When an artist or designer makes a singular statement, it's common for the second tier and lower to come out with iterations 'inspired by' or outright plagiarized from the original.

Those with integrity admit and credit the artists they're referencing. The rest hope nobody cares, or defend their trespasses by claiming to have improved upon the original. 

Theres really no need for me to slam ADI, they slammed themselves in that respect. Look at interviews with Woodruff and Gillis from the time of A:R.

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPJul-13-2016 8:30 AM

^^ What NOOB said, I've covered Woodruff and Gillis on his Franchise Rants topic!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPJul-13-2016 9:31 AM

without getting into the ADI debate..

it does happen often when some aesthetic things from previous movies are not carried over correctly that lead to some confusion.

I agree the Alien 3 Chest Buster Queen was better, the Alien R one looked Generic... yet the Adult looked the same, so its a conflict and one that those working on Alien R should have paid attention to.

But yes the retrieving the specimen prematurely could be used to explain away the difference.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPJul-13-2016 3:12 PM

"Simple - Creature design by Alec Gillis, Tom Woodruff Jr., and H. R. Giger."

What has that got to do with ADI?  They don't write the credits - Fox does.

 

"In Alien 3 Giger's designs of a cougar-like alien were truly awesome. Woodruff and Jr. scaled back the design and claimed it was all their work by not giving Giger his due credit, or fighting to make sure Giger was given due credit. "

You're basing this on what?  ADI based their designs on Giger's original Necronom paintings, under the direction of their director.

 

"Don't get me wrong I'm not slamming ADI"

'They're dishonest thieves, but I'm not slamming them' LOL

And yes, I agree their design and execution in AvP:R is far and away the worst in any Alien flick. At least in terms of the Alien.  A lot of Predator fans seem to like Wolf.

 

"I am slamming ADI because, as professionals in the public eye, it was their responsibility to credit the work that propelled their success. Rather than do that, they claimed to have improved the design."

It's not ADI's job to credit Giger. And it's their job to try and improve on what's gone before according to the desires of the director and studio. They're stuck with trying to bring their own creativity to a thing that someone else originated.

Always odd that ADI gets a kicking, but Cameron and Winston made the most obvious design change by removing the smooth dome in favour of ribbing and get worshipped.

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJul-13-2016 5:12 PM

S.M.-

Cameron gets his fair share of kicking here.

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