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Space Jockeys are Engineers?

Space Jockeys are Engineers?

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Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-05-2016 11:52 AM

Space Jockeys are Engineers?

62 Responses to Space Jockeys are Engineers?

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPJul-07-2016 8:54 AM

I'm happy they made the Engineers 7ft. Any taller and they would make the Xeno's look like their pets. 15ft Engineer and his little munchkin Xenomorph.

The monster should be the focus..I think. Not the super beings.

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJul-07-2016 9:03 AM

As far as the Engineer Suits, maybe they are Genetically altered this way?  Or its just the Suits are so Advanced that when worn they fuse with the wearer, maybe for Life or maybe they can get out of them?

To me they look like biological versions of the Centurions suits in the 80's Cartoon, who's suits where fashioned that way so that their Technology could connect and fuse with them.

As far as if this is a different caste... we dont know they could go that route to explain the size difference with the Space Jockey but i think they are all still similar.

If we take the Biblical Account of God and his Creation.

Then while we never see God, we are created in his (their) Likeness,  we see Angels are depicted as being very Human Looking, and so maybe God also looks Human.... 

The Sumerian and Greek Gods Hierarchy also has different castes,  for example we have the The Twelve Titans and then Twelve Olympians who are all depicted as being Human like... 

Thus in each case Mankind was created in the image of the Hierarchy of Creators.  But sometimes these Gods are depicted as being Taller than Humans.

We also have Hybrids... between Gods and Humans to make Demi-Gods like Hercules who also looks Human, and the Bible gives us the same kind of Hybrid where Fallen Angels had mated with Human Women to produce Nephilim (Giants) who also appear Human just much Taller.

This could imply  that our Fallen Angels and thus Angels while appear Male, they could well indeed be Male... but there could be other ways they could Seed their DNA with Humans.

Like in the Bible, Adam was created in the image of God, he was Male and he was all alone and so God created Eve from his Body (Rib)

And so yes if we go for this in context to Prometheus/Alien Covenant then we could have different castes of similar beings who may differ in size and role, and order of Hierarchy but all look similar.

But then there is also no reason to Assume Engineers are all the same size..... Humans can vary on average from 4ft to 7ft with some coming in smaller and others taller, we are not all 5.5-6ft tall so we cant assume Engineers cant differ by similar % too....  thus to give us a range of 8-16 Feet easy.  If we assume the Engineers are intended to be 9ft then this would open up a range of 9-18ft tall.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJul-07-2016 9:09 AM

I actually disagree with that MonsterZero...

i think they opened up a whole new Universe to explore with the Engineers/Space Jockey and the Xenomorph may just be to them as creating a Robot was to us...

I think this is what Prometheus wanted to expand upon since the change from a more 60/40% in favor of Xeno that Spaights draft had.

I think after Prometheus Polarized fans, and they saw the excitement for Blomkamps Alien 5, they (Fox) then decided to cover the Xenomorph more..

Which i think is a Good movie as once the Origin is covered and Xeno beast is cooked after Alien 5 and most likely 6 too...

Fox can still go back and expand upon the Engineers etc and what else they have been up to and created within the Galaxy or in other Galaxies.

I think we still need to see Engineers covered though, but i agree most important right now is to cover the Xenomorph Origin and whole Agenda for why such a thing was created first.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Dark Nebula

XenomorphStaff1171 XPJul-07-2016 9:34 AM

Yes.

An average human is 5'6''-6'0'' and there are humans shorter and much taller than that.

The tallest human who ever lived was Robert Wadlow who was 8'11''

The sad thing is that poor Robert died at 22 :(

The average height for the engineers could be 9-10 ft,so yes,there could be engineers way taller than that size.

About the suits,some guy mentioned in the do***entary Furious Gods making of Prometheus that there are 2 types of suits that the engineers wear.

First one is called atmospheric suit,wich the engineers used outside the pyramids and when piloting the craft.

And the second one is the pressure suit wich provides them good protection (yes,it withstood the shootgun and the predator plasma caster as shown in predator fire and stone) and has some purpose with the hypersleep chamber.

 

 

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-07-2016 9:45 AM

Proof?

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJul-07-2016 10:05 AM

Yes there are Atheistic Differences... but they are supposed to be the same for all intensive purposes... and so as i said before, it could be simply a newer type of suit... like the Stormtrooper Analogy

Onto the Two Suits... yes they have the Pressure under suit, and then the Space Jockey Suit that goes over the Top.

We was left to ponder the purpose of those suits, but a deleted Shot would have given massive clues..

This would show they did not need the Space Jockey suit for outside... and then Humans could not breath outside but they could inside the Temple/Cave and the Juggernaught.

So its safe to assume those suits are not needed for the purpose of breathing on the ship... maybe not while it is docked in the Flight Bay.

Maybe the suits are a Bio-Hazard Hazmat suit to prevent the Engineers Repertory Systems from contaminating the Cargo...

It could be that the removal of the Prometheus Crews Helmets is what affected the Atmosphere of the Big Head Room that lead to the Black Goo being Activated.

This does not have to be factual....  but it would make a bit of sense.... we have to also note that Mosquitoes find a Host to prey for Blood via Chemicals we release during our Repertory System.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPJul-07-2016 10:23 AM

It'll be a race war...Bigger, taller, stronger...Just like what's happening in the Godzilla universe or King kong.

Make the Engineers bigger..they'll make the monsters larger...Soon they won't fit in human spaceships...They'll have to enlarge the spaceships so the monsters will be able to chase the humans around ....what if Kane gave birth to a Queen? She would have been stuck in a hallway!

I really don't want the Alien series crossing into fantasy.

Necronom 4

NeomorphMember1566 XPJul-07-2016 10:26 AM

That last image that Hammerpedes posted shows two completely different creatures to me.

On top of this glaringly obvious difference we have the incredible size difference;

The original Space Jockey probably being between 15-18 feet tall and the Prometheus engineers being around 9-10 feet when in their jockey suits. That's a huge 6-8 feet difference.

The interior of the pilot chambers are also completely different.

Are we really being expected to suspend our disbelief to that extent?

The only believable way in which Ridley can explain this obvious discrepancy, is if he shows them as being two separate creatures IMO.   

The poster was good though!

 

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-07-2016 10:32 AM

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Necronom 4

NeomorphMember1566 XPJul-07-2016 10:35 AM

Btw BigDave; love the Centurions comparison! I used to watch that cartoon religiously when I was a kid. I even had the toys. Happy days :)  

The poster was good though!

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJul-07-2016 10:49 AM

The Space Jockey was to be 26ft Tall.... the use of Child Actors was to create the Illusion but only really gave a 21ft tall one. (based on 4.5ft Children to size of Jocky Prop 15ft)

The Actual Prop was 16-17ft Long... which the Space Jocky Sat inside, and when also working out ratio of body parts on the Space Jockey to a Human would also then give us about a 15ft tall Space Jockey the Space Jockey itself was 13-15ft

which is why for Prometheus... which started with Spaights Drafts they had tried to show the Engineer and Space Jockey are the same a 15ft Humanoid Race

Lindeloffs draft they was 12ft...

Realising they could not pull this off, they intended the LV-223 Engineers to be 9-10ft Tall.... but using 7ft Actors in Booster Boots and Space Jockey suit we actually ended up with about 7.5ft Tall Engineers.

But we was not supposed to consider that, we was supposed to be led to believe they was 9-10ft tall

So if we go with that Concept... then the Engineers are 9-10ft tall and Space Jockey say 15ft, but this difference would only be the same as a Average Human to a 9ft Tall Human and so like the Photo posted of Robert Wadlow  if we look at the Photo and Imagine the Man with Wadlow is our Engineer and Wadlow is the Space Jockey but they are the same Race.

But its has i have said Prometheus was hinting at connections to Bible and Greek Mythos and Ridley said he never wanted to meet God in the first movie which is why the Elders Scene was removed.

This means that they could be changing the Role of the Engineers compared to what they was in the Drafts.

So we have God/Angels we have Titans/Olympians  and even in Sumerian Fables we had the Anunnaki/Igigi

And so yes there was Two different Castes to the above...   we then had Humans created in the same Image... and also Giants in those Myths and Religions too.

And so the Space Jockey could be any one of those parts of the Hierarchy  and that Hierarchy  does not have to be  Engineers Creators ==>Engineers ==>Mankind

It could have a order prior to the Engineers Creators or the Engineers are just one sub creation of their creators.

I think having such sub creations and a Hierarchy of beings could be a ideal way to explain the Space Jockey.... if we go by the Greek Mythos then the Space Jockey could be a Titan and the Engineers Olympians or vice versa

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJul-07-2016 10:50 AM

Necronom 4.... My Dad brought me and my brother the Attachments for Christmas once but not the Figures lol

So he modified some of my other Action Figures so they would attach to them lol

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Necronom 4

NeomorphMember1566 XPJul-07-2016 2:04 PM

@BigDave; That's fantastic! You're dad must be a very talented guy to do that!

I just want to pick up on something though.

"Realising they could not pull this off, they intended the LV-223 Engineers to be 9-10ft Tall...." - BigDave.

Absolutely! I think Ridley didn't see the importance in respecting scale. He has a history of avoiding such things in favour of showing what is important to him. 

However, one of the most important elements to us fans, regarding the original space jockey, is the huge size of the thing (26 feet according to legend).

It's alway's been one of the main topics of debate amongst the cult followers and it is VERY important to us!

After all, that's one of the first things that's noticeable when we first come across the Jockey in ALIEN.

It's important because it's one of the elements which makes us think 'WOW! That thing must be huge!'

It's one of the elements which makes it AWE INSPIRING.

Ridley failed to see the value in that and that's what really bothers me. He was too focussed on trying to give us an explination of who the space jockey race are and what they do, that he neglected the basic (but very important to us) ELEMENTS that gave us a feeling of AWE and a sense of the UNKNOWN in the pursuit of giving us HIS vision of the Space Jockey.

Of course, when any artist, whether a Painter, Music maker, author or filmmaker creates their work, it is their vision. And that's the way it should be! You shouldn't set out to create your work with the intention to please everyone, otherwise it will wind up being something that hardly anybody likes.

However, you should always make an effort to respect the original elements IMO.

   

The poster was good though!

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJul-07-2016 2:45 PM

Agreed and Ridley did say before he makes his movies for himself and does not care if fans dislike what he has done...

So it will be interesting to see how Much influence he allows Fox over the project.

It does seem we was being sent down a path to cover the Engineers and what other related races/beings are connected to them... i wander how much is now to be toned down.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

YC-865

OvomorphMember13 XPJul-11-2016 1:47 AM

here is my take:

Space Jockey is akin from the Space Guild space weaver from DUNE, meaning they don't ever leave the chair maybe even the ship. 

Maybe the derelict was like a tug/pilot boat that latches on to much larger craft like a skull ship where that ship docks taking command. Perhaps the SJs ships fuse for a time to act like the head and SJ are the brain.

The Engineers are just that engineers they create some create life and other work to destroy or change it.

I like the two being brother species that were created from the same stock then manipulated for separate tasks and castes. SJs became the Gorillas and the Engineers the Chimpanzees while their creator would view them merely as tools.  A mirror of humans influence on the dog.

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-11-2016 10:07 AM

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YC-865

OvomorphMember13 XPJul-11-2016 10:37 AM

Now that I think of it Dune is in the far future so maybe the Guild Navigators are human space jockeys....

HyperNova

OvomorphMember22 XPJul-27-2016 1:04 PM

Maybe the Engineers are/were secretly envious of the Space Jockeys and had modelled THIER entire civilization upon them?

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-27-2016 1:25 PM

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HyperNova

OvomorphMember22 XPJul-28-2016 1:19 PM

It could explain why they are not quite the same height, weight, demeanour, ect.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPJul-28-2016 5:15 PM

A dead dude in a chair has a "demeanour"?

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJul-28-2016 7:45 PM

I can see it. But he's not nearly as smug as the head on the table.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPJul-28-2016 8:04 PM

lol

Something Real

TrilobiteMember5639 XPJul-29-2016 1:48 AM

FACEHUGGERS! - Perhaps what we are seeing in the original Alien is something relatable to the "Egg Morphing" process? Perhaps the Engineer is being altered by the creature within his form - causing his body and suit to meld with his navigation assembly? :)

HyperNova

OvomorphMember22 XPJul-29-2016 9:50 AM

S.M. I was referring to the Engineers demeanour, i.e: their height, weight, the Engineers have a presence, I'm certain that when the Space Jockey was at maximum height, weight, "DEMEANOR" it conveyed a sense of authority. 

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-29-2016 10:51 AM

///

Something Real

TrilobiteMember5639 XPJul-29-2016 11:46 AM

FACEHUGGERS - Hahaha! Thank you for the kind words! :)

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJul-29-2016 4:43 PM

This is a fun topic, thank you for posting! It's funny how the Engineer's head looks like an oyster in the shell. 

But not a boisterous oyster. That's the MORB, or, in Latin, Macerator Oysterlips.

But I digress. I've long held that the Engineers are a practical invention of the Space Jockeys, just as David is to humans. Possibly with the sole purpose of handling the Liquid, and it's offspring.

And at some point they learned to harness it, kind of. Much as Weyland would, if only. Discovered a way to reproduce outside of a Space Jockey factory (man/woman) and started seeding planets in secret, creating a race. While at the same time, turning the dark side of their findings against their masters.

This is my personal fantasy about the clues so far, who knows what's really gonna happen. Guilty as charged, your honor!

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPJul-29-2016 7:11 PM

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rumsmuggler

OvomorphMember62 XPAug-10-2016 8:10 PM

I'm hoping we get more information on the Jockeys/Engineers. They are definitely an interesting group that we still know little about.

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