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Facehuggers

Jul-04-2016 3:12 PM

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35 Responses to Not Available

UFOANAUT

Jul-05-2016 1:26 AM

You could be right.   But you also have to consider maybe a deacon cry being heard when David activates the ships hologram log.   

Chris

Jul-05-2016 6:56 AM

I will say, your theory is possible! Maybe not for ALIEN's Jockey, but certainly for the outbreak on LV-223. One Engineer accidentally spills one of the urns containing black goo, it gets into the dirt of that room, like we saw in Prometheus. 

I guess a few things I'm thinking about are:

- It takes a while for the worms to transform into Hammerpedes, do the Engineers leave for lunch and come back to find them fully grown? Which then leads to their chase?

- Or, would an Engineer not notice one of the worms in the room and attempt to kill it or contain it?

It's certainly possible and like you said, Chestbursters don't burst from the leg or head. So, this could very well be the cause of Hammerpedes getting loose. Nice topic!

storm33

Jul-05-2016 7:17 AM

You've got this all wrong actually, no matter how many times you've watched the movie. Because the key to the Hammerpedes riddle does not lie in the movie itself, but in the extras, alternate and deleted scenes from the BluRay. You should watch those to get a better grip on Prometheus.

In one of those scenes, Millburn is seen discovering some regular earthworm-like creatures in the tunnels and he is really emotional from the revelation because it's the most complex form of life ever found during the exploration of space (he mentions that only bacteria-size life was ever discovered up to that point). Then he pulls out some sort of can and contains them, as he is clearly collecting specimens to take back for further study and analysis.

Now, back to the Hammerpedes scene, the Hammerpedes were just these regular worms which were apparently everywhere and common in the dome-structure("that is a goddam ship!"), and they got mutated by the black oil which spilled from the vases.

So, the scene for which everyone bashes Millburn and the bad writing for the biologist who is trying to pet the hammerpedes actually makes total sense, because he was trying to catch them, he was trying to collect more biological specimens and samples("come here, baby!"). These worms were the native fauna of the planetoid and they have nothing to do with the engineer holocaust, those wounds you see in the "pile of bodies scene" are just your regular chestburster wounds.

Patient Leech

Jul-05-2016 7:51 AM

@storm33

I really wish they had kept that scene of Milburn finding and collecting the worm. It's a great scene and yes, it makes the hammerpede scene make much more sense. It was a bad decision to take it out.

I don't really remember noticing any hammerpede holes in any of the dead engineers, but even if they were, the hammerpede just went into Milburn's mouth. It didn't rip him any new holes... lol

BigDave

Jul-05-2016 8:31 AM

Well the Hammerpedes like Shaws Baby and the Deacon where all supple Plot Devices to show the Engineers are connected to Xenomorph DNA via experiments they carry out on LV-223 there by taking the Emphasis off the Xeno and onto the Engineers and Experiments with just enough clues to connect the Xeno DNA

As for the Theory, yes it could work... can we assume those Worms where brought in from outside the Cave/Temple Mound?

The "our first alien" scene would suggest they have already gotten in and grown inside the Cave prior to the Prometheus Crew and opening the Big Head Room Door.

But yes if these Worms could have been there all along then there would be the potential for a disaster.... but i still dont think the Engineers would be as stupid to let a Outbreak happen there must have been Failsafes...and so the result is not something that would easily happen.

But was a accident, or sabotage?

The whole scene is not explained well regarding the Engineers both Hologram and Dead ones.

But they all seemed to want to be urgently trying to get into the Big Head/Urn Room.... Why? its been discussed before because it seems to be some kind of Sterile Environment where the Black Goo does not seem to be able to operate, maybe a bit like if you freeze a bacteria or food then the process of growing bacteria/rot is halted.

Shaw compares the Engineer outbreak to what she saw in Africa.... (Ebola) we see the Head they recovered had showed signs of changing and then exploded.

The Dead Engineer Bodies seem Empty Shells, no Skeletons remain. Only the Head which was in the Sterile Ampoule Room.

So the theory i had and have is they was infected like Holloway, and going through a slower process than the Sacrificial Engineer.

We see the Sacrificial Scene is a Violent Chemical Reaction we see some sort of similar one when we place a Minto Mint into a Coke Bottle, it causes the Gas inside the Coke to Expand and Explode out.... if you quickly put the Top on then the Reaction would get very Volatile inside.

The expanding Gas Chemical Reaction would look for the easiest point of escape.... if the bottle had a pin prick in it in a few locations and then you Tapped those holes up quickly.... then put the Mint into the Cola... the reaction would happen and eventually the Coke would burst through those holes, making them bigger.

I think this is what happened to the Engineer Head the had recovered.... Imagine the Violent Reaction of the Sacrificial Scene but contained within a Pressured Suit

But this is but just one theory, and we have to remember the Engineers where based on Spaights draft as far as Prop.... and the idea was some was Chest Busted and some where attacked by the resulting Organisms and so we dont have no 100% explanation for the Scene...

Apart from the one Engineer who got decapitated who was trying to get into that room was infected with the Black Goo.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

storm33

Jul-05-2016 10:11 AM

@Patient Leech

It's true, it was a well-done scene, I love the part where David says "our first alien!". I don't know why they cut it out, it lasted less than one minute and thus it wouldn't have affected the total running time of the movie, but it would have been a great addition for the  whole logic of the movie.

Its absence brings up all these questions about the origin of the Hammerpedes and puts Millburn in a bad light as a biologist (and also puts the writers in a bad light).

 

 

Membrane

Jul-05-2016 11:13 AM

The scene was cut, like others, with the intention of making things "less on the nose", but I think Ridley had too many glasses of wine by that point and was cutting things and essentially "removing the nose" altogether. :-)

I agree, that scene should have been kept in along with the comments from Fifield that the storm outside was ruining his mapping device and therefore he could not figure out how to get back out.  Ever used your GPS while driving only to realize that once you reached your destination, that you have no idea how you actually got there and there's no chance you'd be able to retrace your steps?

Facehuggers

Jul-05-2016 3:58 PM

@UFOANAUT

That does raise a great point! That would make a really interesting article: Screams of Deacon

S.M

Jul-05-2016 5:06 PM

"In fact, if you ignore the Hammerpede attack and assume Millburn and Fifield just got forever lost in the Alien ship, the film has the same ending!"

No, it could well mean Charlie gets sick on the ship and could possibly treated in the medpod, instead of being incinerated. If so, Shaw may not have been shown to be carrying the trilobite until it was too late. It could've gone in a number of different directions.

 

"As the expedition first enters the alien ship, you notice various engineer holograms fleeing into a room. This could be explained by rampaging Hammerpedes, for they are easily created from leaks of black fluid."

It could also be explained by them fleeing one of their infected brethren. And wouldn't the hammerpedes also appear on the hologram?

 

"But chestbursters don't come out of legs and heads!"

Nor do hammerpedes.

 

"In fact, they created similar holes/injuries in Millburn, drilling a cavity into his arm."

I broke his arm and used the tear in his suit to get into it. It didn't get into him via the broken arm.

 

"I really wish they had kept that scene of Milburn finding and collecting the worm. It's a great scene and yes, it makes the hammerpede scene make much more sense. It was a bad decision to take it out."

They had a shot of worms in the ampule room. Ergo hammerpedes come from those worms. The deleted scene wouldn't have really added anything.

 

"But you also have to consider maybe a deacon cry being heard when David activates the ships hologram log."

Hadn't noticed that. Dunno if it is a Deacon cry, but it's definitely interesting.

Facehuggers

Jul-05-2016 5:29 PM

Just a theory S.M and storm33, just a theory.

@Patient Leech

There were holes if you examined closely!

 

S.M

Jul-05-2016 5:43 PM

There was a 'hole' in Millburn?  It went in his mouth then went out his mouth.

Facehuggers

Jul-05-2016 5:46 PM

@S.M

There were holes in the Engineer suits! And obviously, the Hammerpede has more than enough power to rip holes in creatures!

S.M

Jul-05-2016 6:04 PM

Yeah, but hammerpedes go in the mouth and out the mouth. We have no evidence they go in or out anywhere else.

BigDave

Jul-05-2016 6:48 PM

"And wouldn't the hammerpedes also appear on the hologram?"

We simply dont know what would or would not be picked up, all we know is it shows the Engineers we cant rule out anything else... and its likewise with the Scream... some had said about them being chased by a Deacon but would that not have shown up too?  Mind you the crew did chase/run off and end up at the room where the decapitated Engineers body lay... then the Hologram shut off.

The sound could be a Deacon or similar or it could be the sound of the recording starting up, its just one of the Ambiguous moments of the movie.

I would certainly rule out being chased by Hammerpedes though, but we cant rule out that they have never seen the Worms infected before, they could or may not have... We dont have a time frame from when they started the experiments that led to the Goo going into those Urns to when the outbreak had occurred.

"There were holes in the Engineer suits"

Indeed there was and yes maybe the Hammerpedes could make such holes, we do not know enough about the Hammerpedes to rule out them being able to Chest Burst.... the one went into Milburns Mouth and out because it was the easiest way in and out.... it entered his Suit and not his Arm if i remember correct.

Other drafts had those injuries and holes caused by what they was leading towards being a Xeno Related Outbreak some are Chest Buster Holes others are Puncture Wounds from a Organism with great force.

But if we are only to consider what the movie has shown us then it leaves to me Two potential reasons.. but there could be more.

1) Some Deacon Related Organism killed them off.

2) They suffered a Chemical Breakdown and the resulting reaction had broken out of the suits due to the pressure.

But then its how did the bodies all end up pilled up that is another Question... i doubt the Deacon would do that, i doubt the Engineers would stick around after a Deacon outbreak to then pile them up and i doubt the Engineers would all stand around that Door while being assaulted by a Deacon.

There has to be another reason for why they desperately had to get to that Room...  And to have the Environment and maybe something else within that room able to prevent the spread and well slowdown or halt the rate of infection makes more sense.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-05-2016 6:53 PM

As far as the Larger Worms, they did not look like Worms but more like Centipedes to be fair, and while the reason giving for the removal of the Scene was pacing and it having no real effect on the Plot...

Maybe if we was led and being shown that those Smaller Worms could have been brought in from outside and these when infected with the Goo would evolve into the Hammerpedes was what ultimately was the aim to show the effects of the Black Goo

Those Organisms encountered first, seem to show that those Organisms where definitely there before the Crew arrived and so where not brought in by the crew from outside... and they also that we would Question and see that if these are related to the other Worms, then maybe the Worms can Grow and Evolve without the Black Goo.

So its perfectly understandable why it was cut.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

storm33

Jul-06-2016 12:56 AM

I think it's more likely that those holes you speak of are not exit wounds, but entry wounds - from the very inner jaw of our beloved star beasts. Millburn notices a chest wound and says that it appears as if exploded from the inside, but there are some other cracked skulls and wounded limbs there that don't look like being exploded from the inside. But they could also be signs of decay, since they were wearing their biotech suits, which might decompose in strange ways if not powered anymore or when attached to a dead wearer. The truth is that we don't really know anything about those fused biosuits, their functions and purpose.

 

@S.M.

Keeping the "Our First Alien" scene would not have been that much more relevant toward the origin of the Hammerpedes, but more relevant to explain why Millburn is trying to pet them, a scene which received a lot of bashing and which everyone seems to have misunderstood as signs of incompetence and bad writing, rather than that Millburn was really trying to capture and contain them for further analysis.

S.M

Jul-06-2016 1:04 AM

Possibly. I never had an issue with the scene. Millburn is just enthusiastic and Fifield becomes the voice of the audience.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-06-2016 8:06 AM

Patient Leech:  ” I really wish they had kept that scene of Milburn finding and collecting the worm. It's a great scene and yes, it makes the hammerpede scene make much more sense. It was a bad decision to take it out.”

 

I totally agree, that would have made Fifield and Milburn look better as characters (to me at least) and it would have made total sense (they should also have explained why they didn’t have the map another things that made me annoyed at these characters). Keeping that one out was even worse than deleting the mutated Fifield scene and replace it with a Zombie.

 

I have never really understood the connection Hammerpedes - Deacon - Xeno. Can someone explain it to me? Sorry if this question seems dumb but then the Hammerpedes never really made sense to me except for the acid for blood thing.

S.M

Jul-06-2016 5:27 PM

"Keeping that one out was even worse than deleting the mutated Fifield scene and replace it with a Zombie."

They were both mutated. One was digital; one was live action. Ridley preferred the live action one.

 

"I have never really understood the connection Hammerpedes - Deacon - Xeno. Can someone explain it to me?"

No connection has been established as yet.  Hammerpedes are neither here nor there. They're just indigenous worms mutated by accelerant.

BigDave

Jul-07-2016 9:35 AM

""I have never really understood the connection Hammerpedes - Deacon - Xeno. Can someone explain it to me?"

The connection is simply to show a connection as far as the result of exposure to the accelerant mutagen.

Which was that Organisms, that are infected by the stain within those Urns end up being Mutated/Evolved with a mixture of DNA that is related to the Xenomorph DNA

They was all Plot Devices to show a Genetic Connection to the Xenomorph, Engineers and use as a Biological Warfare.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-07-2016 9:39 AM

I would suggest reading Spaights and Lindeloffs drafts for a better understanding of how this all works...

Talking of Drafts..... the draft that Evolved to Prometheus had a different take on Milburn and Fifield, which was never expanded upon.... Fifield was High and it was he who was toying with the Hammerpede.

The draft had other better explanations for silly moments in the movie, such as getting Lost.... the draft had it where Fifield thought Milburn had a Map Device, and Milburn thought Fifield had it.

I'm sure we have all had the same situation in real life, where say a Couple would leave their home and assume the other has the house keys... when neither have. And so end up locked out of the house.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-07-2016 9:49 AM

Lindeloff did try and tease the Hammerpedes played a role in the Xenomorph though.... in a Interview but he also called the Deacon the Progenitor too which lead to confusion and some thinking does Hammerpede+Deacon = Xenomorph

Which i think is not the case....

But it is interesting im how Worms Procreate, a Worm is both Male/Female but they cant fertilize their own Eggs. So Two Worms are needed and both end up with fertilized Eggs.  This could connect to how a Queen produces Eggs and maybe the Xeno DNA has the ability to Fertilize Eggs... hence Shaws Pregnancy..

Thats not to say this is the case though....

i would love to see the Hamerpedes Explored in future, if not on Film maybe in a Comic or Book...

There has to be a reason the Hamerpede had gone down Milburns Mouth.... more than just to kill him. But maybe not.

I would love them to be explored in one of Two Ways..

1) Hammerpede goes into the Mouth to lay its Eggs or a Egg or Embryo so in effect it acts like the Face Huger but it can go on and infect multiple hosts (it does not die after depositing a Egg/Embryo).

2) Instead of a Embryo the Hammepede puts something inside that then started to eventually Morph the Genetics of the Host and this could lead to either a Mutated Being, or a Egg.

3) Another Morphing idea... that the Hammerpedes act like a Caterpillar, it required something from Milburn or any Host, so that the Hammerpede can then enter a Metamorphosis stage where it like a Caterpillar or even a Fly Larvae it then becomes a Pupa and then something completely different then breaks free of the Pupa.

I think either of these would have been interesting.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-07-2016 9:55 AM

As far as Engineers Bodies then yes the idea before was Chest Buster and then Attack by the Offspring....  but this is a little odd to how they ended up being Chest Busted and Attacked in the same area...

Unless afterwards other Engineers simply dragged the body's and pilled them up....

We have to remember Production had begun prior to Lindeloffs Re-write and so some Props was more based off Spaights draft. Which include the Chest Busted Cryo-Sleep Pods.

But  we dont really know what was supposed to had happened, Shaw made a reference to it being a Outbreak like she had seen before (Ebola) then we have to look at the Decapitated Head  and why was those Engineers running to the Big Head Room that preserved the Decapitated Head and why then did those other dead Engineers all seem to be outside a Door that seems to also lead to the same room....

And why those Dead Engineers Suits all seem Hollow?

So i think my theory seems to be the more plausible but thats not to say this is the case though.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-08-2016 6:58 AM

S.M: Alright so Ridley preferred the live one, but I still think that the animated monster was better. Sometimes live action things are better and sometimes not. This one wasn’t better than the animated monster IMO but that depends on who you ask.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-08-2016 6:59 AM

Hammerpedes! : Thanks for posting the picture, that is much appreciated.

BigDave

Jul-08-2016 9:19 AM

I think in reality they had other ideas... which had to be cut for various reasons... they was working on a Animatronic Version which was my favorite as well as other Props

Both of these would have been better, but maybe could not have pulled them off to the way Ridley would have felt pleased with maybe due to budget restraints?

Who knows....

The one we got does look like a quick and cheap FIX, they would have used this scene but also use it as a basis for CGI overlay.

But Ridley was so pleased with Sean Haris work and i guess the CGI did look a bit too CGI and so the decision was made to stick with Toxic Avenger Fifield.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-08-2016 2:34 PM

Big Dave: Both these versions are a lot better than what we got on screen. Quite frankly the final version is crap compared to these. Sorry if I am harsh but this is my opinion since the final version is such a disappointment IMO.

BigDave

Jul-08-2016 4:38 PM

I agree.... these would also have linked the Black Goo and Xeno DNA connection more

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

S.M

Jul-08-2016 5:07 PM

Maybe Ridley didn't want to give the impression that there is a link and Fifield was somehow turning into an Alien.

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