Apr-03-2016 5:00 AM
CHRIS PICARD - Now this is a very compelling notion! I can certainly see what you have described within the mural! Thank you so very much for sharing this with us! :)
Apr-04-2016 3:52 PM
Yes that is very true. However to each side of the mural there are representations of the classic eggs, fachuggers, hosts and a chest burster. Als even more intreguing is the other mural showing an Engineer in a classical pose with its arm touching the head of some other creature......
Apr-04-2016 3:55 PM
Apr-04-2016 3:58 PM
Apr-04-2016 4:03 PM
Apr-04-2016 7:10 PM
The area around the figure, especially the top part of the figure look similar to Pelvic bones. The whole mural is full with suggestions of impregnation and Xenomorphs being carried in a womb. The Xenomorphs near the lower part of the figure seemed to be more like the traditional Xeno.
"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
Apr-04-2016 7:12 PM
Maybe the black goo will react differently to Male and female eg, with a male you will get a Deacon style creature and with a female you will get a facehugger style creature. Just a thought.
"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
Apr-04-2016 10:11 PM
That last point is exactly the route I was going pulserifle187. There were early theories which suggested the Deacon could eventually grow to become a King Alien - only previously referenced in comics. However I don't quite think that's the case, I definitely think there are differences to how the bio-altering agents in the Engineers' tech will work based on the genetic and reproductive makeup of those whome it infects.
The way I see it, the Black Goo effects currently elicit the following:
Male = Transformation into aggressive / Xeno-like zombie creature.
Female = Facehugger
Infected Male + Non-infected Female = Proto-Facehugger
Facehugger + Engineer = Ultramorph
Facehugger + Human = Xenomorph (or close to)
Proto-Facehugger + Engineer / Human = Deacon
It's a rough mock-up but given what we've currently seen, seems to be how it works.
Apr-04-2016 10:15 PM
This theory I shared above can also be further solidified by examining the other sections of the mural that brego mentioned above. Looking at Giger's artwork (both are referenced) of the Facehuggers, one seems to insert into the host's mouth (Facehugger) while the other seems to encase and almost lay on top of the host, while inserting through the mouth. (Trilobite / Proto-Hugger)
Apr-04-2016 10:18 PM
The H.R Giger artwork I'm referencing above are these two:
Apr-07-2016 10:00 PM
This is why I liked the original Prometheus script before it was de-xeno'd by Ridley and co. Before the re write there were different types of eggs and creatures within the silo type pyramid or dwelling. The first face hugger dribbles down from a wall mounted egg like cocoon and impregnates an unconcious Holloway, who fell down a shaft into some kind of strange chamber. His helmet is knocked off during the fall. He awakes unaware that he has been impregnated.
This script seems to have suggested that the black goo (or insects in its origin ) were a delivery system designed to produce life depending on the host. I much prefer this to the final confused and simply unintelligent script.
Apr-07-2016 10:29 PM
I did enjoy the original script as well, but I'm not opposed to the introduction of the Black Goo. I think it opens more doors as to what the material can actually do. The problem with the original script is it didn't explain what the different creatures were and how they got there. The Black Goo however, offers more of an explanation for that. It also showed us it could alter the DNA of any living thing, not just Humans or Human-like species.
Apr-15-2016 12:40 AM
Reminds me of Dan Obannons original design for the alien but then given to Giger with creative freedom. Maybe Ridley wants to still keep Obannons original idea that the xenomorphs were a species that had a civilizations. The engineers could of stumbled upon the planet and fucked around with the aliens Dna and used it as "genetic biological" warfare.
Apr-15-2016 12:45 AM
Apr-15-2016 3:37 PM
The key to understand something is the genetic exchange.
The facehugger don't make never a genetic exchange with the DNA of his host.
The black-goo makes a change on the DNA.
Then the facehugger classic don't comes of a genetic exchange, but the trilobyte is a facehugger that comes of a genétic exchange.
Then the vital cycle is
This is very much easy and clear about the vital cycle of the aliens.
Apr-15-2016 3:59 PM
The Deacon is a Queen before it's develop, it comes from a genétic exchange, .......the Queen births the eggs,where are the facehugger,and the facehugger create the Xeno.
Trilobyte isn't a protofacehugger, no,it is the facehugger of a Queen.
Apr-15-2016 6:57 PM
@UFOANAUT, the prospect of the Xenomorphs being originally a pre-exosting society is certainly interesting and could play into the expansion of this universe. Perhaps that's why they refer to the mural as "just another tomb"? They captured and extracted DNA from the Xenos to, like you said, develop biological weapons. But the big question would remain - why?! It's a completely different way of looking at the Xenomorph, or at least it's origin species. I'll have to think more about this... Could be a good second topic for discussion.
May-02-2016 5:50 AM
May-09-2016 9:21 AM
"the prospect of the Xenomorphs being originally a pre-exosting society is certainly interesting and could play into the expansion of this universe. "
I think that it would be interesting if they would be connected to the Engineers in the way that the Engineers would have something to do with its creation.
Jun-10-2016 4:57 PM
Canova. Yes there is a resemblance, however the only way this Queen theory could have repeated on LV426 is for a Woman (possibly Newts Mum) to be impregnated by a Man who had come in contact with Black Goo. Also we never saw a dead (ridiculously huge) dead trilobite or a dead, bursted, Engineer lying around in Aliens. For me this is another disappointment in Prometheus. A total departure from the origin Xeno creatures in Alien.
Jun-10-2016 5:58 PM
I don't think it was a disappointment at all! It opened up so many doors and showed us that the Xenomorph is not limited in its design and that its adaptability is infinite. The Deacon was a great addition to the biology. It was a result of a very specific series of events. It would be nearly impossible to replicate under normal circumstances, it is one of a kind and will likely not reassemble any pre-existing Xenomorph design. I'm totally okay with that.
Jun-10-2016 8:03 PM
This is the ambiguity of the Franchise, it allows for different views and yes Chris thats a nice theory ;)
We have to look at the Face Hugers that are depictions of the two other unused Giger Alien Concepts. And so its where do we draw the line and what to we allow or discount as far as clues.... do we take those Face Huggers as a Easter Egg?
I think we need to look at the Engineers who are they, and before we try and connect them to Prometheus 2 and Paradise Lost and Greek Mythos and all the God stuff.
Lets throw that all out of the Window, and we have to ask what was they doing? The Sacrificial Scene, why? Ridley said the Engineers came back over and over and Evolved Mankind Genetically as well as Technologically.
They had been referred to as Genetic Gardners as well, and even pondered about what else have these Engineers created and is Earth the only world where they have seeded life, is it the only place to have Humanoid Life? Ridley said these things and also that the Sacrificial Scene does not have to be Earth.
Bring in Fire and Stone, and we see other Organisms who have Cave paintings pointing to LV-223 other Organisms who have 4 Arms. So the Engineers create and manipulate DNA to experiment and create a variety of Life.
Take Spaights draft.... there was 8 different kinds of Xeno Related Eggs/Spores etc and Ridley said he always wanted to have the Derelict having a different type of Egg in each Cargo Hold... saying there was 7? or 8 different holds.
So then lets look at the Sacrificial Scene and Tear Drop Ship, compared to Croissant and then the lack of Bio-Mechanical Suits and Pressure Suits.... did they create this Technology or like the BORG do they try to assimilate and integrate any Bio-Genetics and other Technology to Advance themselves.
Why create so many different Races, why create so many different Eggs etc...
Maybe because the Engineers are always in the pursuit of Evolving and trying to create Perfection and to better advance their Technology and Genetics...
So maybe they experiments on various forms of the Xeno, how they came across it and its Ancestor and what link the Fresco has, who knows.
I think maybe a group of Engineers became perverted with their view of Perfection and they came across something that created a Xeno Ancestor and they then further experimented on this until they reached the Mural Deacon..
Then they saw it as PERFECT and maybe they then decided to use its DNA instead of Engineers to create and seed life... seeing the Deacon DNA as being more Perfect.
This is why the Deacon is in Sacrificial Pose on the Mural, and why it was in front of the Altar... my theory is based on the alternative Shot in the Trailers where the Sacrificial Cup was in place of the Green Orb.
This is just one theory, and it does run deeper if i try and connect the Fresco too.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Jun-10-2016 8:11 PM
It would be interesting to see the Mural and Fresco covered or a new one that is covered in more detail that can allow us to then understand Prometheus.
The Source (again not to be taken as Fact or go off Topic) they said that the whole Eggs, Space Jockey answers are in Prometheus many clues stare us in the Face, but they are vague and not paid enough attention on but that Prometheus has the answers, and that Prometheus 2 while concentrating on the reason for our creation and Engineers and reason for the Xeno, was the focus, it would futher hint clues to the creation of the Xeno as far as Origins but it would not show us a Spoon Fed way or give us the Space Jockey Story.... but after Prometheus 2 we would have when looking at Prometheus and the Franchise, we would have more clues to come up with the answer and that in the end it would show us more... but not the Space Jockey story.... but Prometheus already held the clues.
So yes i think the Mural, and Frescos and other clues must play a key role in it all.... is the Chest Busted Engineer Cryo-Pods, Few Thousand years ago time line and location near to LV-426 all Coincidence?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Jun-11-2016 9:46 AM
@ "What this means is that the Deacon is, but also isn't a proto-Xenomorph. Instead, it acts as a biological foundation - a foundation which I feel David will use in order to create the iconic, biomechanics Xenomorph".
Chris. The view that the Deacon is as far as they got by the time of the outbreak on LV223 fits with my understanding of the script evolution of the upcoming film. Though I believe whilst experiments had been carried out on early points of human evolution the Deacon in the mural is not so different from the calf Deacon at birthing. Both benefit from the same DNA source which includes Engineer and Human DNA in the case of Shaws grandchild and neither shows signs of being bio mechanical.
1) There is an evolving creature which, as John Logan has said, if you are going to tell the story of the Zenomorph its life cycle has to be included.
2) Ridley will also answer why it is Bio Mechanoid.
Whose involved in this evolution of the Zenomorph. I think it is impossible not to conclude its David.
I happen to think that fits with the backstory to date in all but one regard.
The Headroom created a stable environment which some Engineers managed to escape into. The rest, rather like the disaster from a fire, were trapped outside having become infected by the black goo some tried to escape on a Juggernaut and complete one of the missions of the "Destroyer Engineers" to Earth but this clearly failed and three of the pilots were to late to save themselves.
What happened to the Engineers who managed to escape into the Headroom. Did they manage to capture the Deacon that was chasing them, we hear the deacon scream in the hologram recording, which they now subsequently sacrificed, the easter eggs being the sacrificial cup, mural of submersion and the humanoid deacon in a christ like pose.
They also left a code/record of their experiments within the mural showing how they believed the life cycle could work in certain circumstances and those Easter Eggs provide the answers as to how the Space Jockey setting the derelict down on LV426 came about. But as Holloway said this is a tomb and they never escaped, indeed while they subdued the Deacon and affected its sacrifice they ultimately died in an act of sacrifice themselves leaving clues and codes for what they had achieved but always knowing that the creation engineers would understand the warning signs of the pyramid from without.
The problem with this outcome is the Eggs on the Derelict represent the final solution which we have yet to see developed. My view is the S J is in the future despite Dallas's remarks. More recently I have been reminded the Beacon predates the Prometheus mission. However subsequently a poster had suggested these contributions from the PW files should not be taken as gospel and according to Fox are bit of fun.
A juggernaut landed on Paradise an Engineer may have survived, certainly one of BD sources talked about "The Engineer" in an earlier script, possibly once the life cycle is perfected in an act of redemption "The Engineer" removes the remaining eggs created through David's experiments and in an act of sacrifice, completing the cycle begun in Prometheus, deliberately takes a face hugging and blasts off with the Juggernaut as a coda rather like the Deacon in Prometheus.
Jun-13-2016 4:21 AM
I have no friggin idea what the mural is really saying....I do see somewhat the steps of the alien inpregnation process, and the crucifixion pose of a decon but i can only say that the pattern on the wall resembles necronomicon art by Giger. But as far as a sure "take" on the meaning of the design,..mannn...im still in wonder mode..I look forward to Alien covenant explaining it.
"Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop
Jun-29-2016 3:49 PM
@ bladerunnergunner , thx ! I truly only can agree with you for it all is a little vague here . There is a picture , posted by brego . It shows how the facehugger ( the huge one ) is taking care of an engineer . If this was meant to be seen in the movie , this is the explanation on how David was able to see some sort of birth plan or whatever you will call it like .
And ... is the Deacon a queen actually still in progress . @ Canova Well , no I don ´t so . And to put it simple - it turns out to be right or wrong , so whatever . Saying " The Trilobite isn ´t a protofacehugger , it is the facehugger of a queen , this is troubling (or probably nothing but bullshit ) In alien 3 , Ripley is giving birth to a queen . She even says " It is a queen " ( a scene where she talks to the doctor played by Charles Dance ) . What you are trying to say is : The Trilobyte is the facehugger of a proto-queen . Did I get this right ?
Because otherwise the whole alien saga had a lot of queens , let ´s say , but where did you ever saw one of these gigantic sea stars ?
Maybe the most interesting detail about the mural in my opinion : The fact that this special alien ( Deacon )
is already known to the engineers . I ´d like to ask Bishop about we has to say on that , but well , unfortunately he ain ´t around .:) Oh Bishop , I miss your explanations , there was a sound of poetic diction in it .
Jun-29-2016 4:07 PM
Then they saw it as PERFECT and maybe they then decided to use its DNA instead of Engineers to create and seed life... seeing the Deacon DNA as being more Perfect. @ Big Dave I think they saw it was " perfect ", then there was some sort of caps lock situation which led to , well - everybody run . Just laughing .
Your theory has one weakness for sure . If you were an intelligent lifeform - would you really consider it as your very last goal to replace your species by a species which seems to have greater potential , for what reason ? Simply to show you made it before you left the house without , probably , no wittness at all ? Think of it :)
Jun-29-2016 5:27 PM
Depends if you had evolved beyond ego.
Jun-30-2016 8:47 AM
My theory has a few flaws.... but the basis is that a rogue faction of Engineers started to view the Deacon as the Perfect creation as opposed to what their creators had maybe intended.
The Engineers doing those experiments are refereed to by Ridley as Fallen and Rebellious. I had that theory for many years.
But when i got the so called source leak who i will be getting some information hopefully from latter.... again i cant say if any of it is TRUE.
They claim the movie had the answers, in front of us but they are not in a Spoon Fed Way.
They also say the movie was to be based off Rebellion and it does loosely follow Paradise Lost but also Matrix
They said the Xenomorph (Origins) is like the Punishment of the Serpent in Paradise Lost, and as in Satan giving birth to Sin, as his punishment and also that some of the other Fallen Angels had a Punishment where God Mutated them to Serpents... and these Punished Fallen Angels instead of seeing it as Punishment saw it as Freedom from Bondage... and so they said this loosely plays the key role but also ties in with the Greek Prometheus Mythos.
So we will have to wait and see... but if the Deacon and Fresco Mural where Punishment, the Engineers may have then indeed saw such Punishment as actually a Evolution...
I think the whole Agenda of Satan in Paradise Lost was to corrupt Mankind so that Mankind would be punished by God also...
Maybe this is where the Engineers using the Urns on Earth came in? Who knows.
But it seemed the next movie was going to touch upon these things... but then with the Re-write things are being added to be a bit more Fan Service but hopefully it will retain some of the elements they seemed to be going for.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Jun-30-2016 8:54 AM
We still dont know the full Agenda, or how it has changed... do we take the Bible Creation Myth, the Prometheus Greek one... or the movies one
They all share a theme.... was the Sacrificial Scene a Creation of Mankind without consent? was the Engineers creation of Man, the same as Mans creation of David 8?
Does how the Engineers view David 8 and his creation, worry them or a abomination or us playing God when we should not have...
And so did they do the same thing against their Gods/Creators in the creation of Mankind?
We just dont yet know what Role Creation of Man played, is it similar to the Bible? Similar to Greek Mythos or the Sumerian?
The source claimed they are all to be taken as a source material but they are not going for a literal explanation as one of those but to tie those into something more related to Matrix/Bladerunner theme of what i assume is Creation and Rebelion
Time will tell, it does seem that Prometheus 2 was going this route, but its now what route is Covenant going... i think its tone down those elements like how Lindeloffs toned down the Xeno..
Spaights to Lindeloffs ===> Tone Down Xeno, Evolve God/Creators
So maybe Green/Paglen to Logan ===> Tone down the God/Creators and explore/explain the Xeno.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017