Alien: Covenant
What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

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Chris

EngineerAdmin21442 XPApr-01-2016 11:08 PM

What was a common theme throughout Prometheus which echoed personally with the character Shaw? The ability to create life. Originally thought to be infertile, when exposed the Alien matter on LV-223, by means of impregnation by Holloway, we learned Shaw was able to overcome her infertility and give birth to what became the Trilobite.

The key theme here is Shaw and her ability to create life, a trait only women posses. 

My theory is this: Shaw is manipulated and used by David as a means to give birth and spawn a new Alien. A female reproductive system is required to complete a specific process by which David can create a new Organism. Not necessarily a Xenomorph, but something that has the ability to create life itself. 

You'll notice, Holloway never gave birth to an Alien (despite doing so in early drafts of the script). It was Shaw, who gave birth to a Facehugger-like creature. Something capable of creating new life by means of "seeding" a host. 

The only other crew infected by any Alien matter on LV-223 were male and they merely transformed into zombie-like monsters.

It is my theory (of many) that David uses Shaw, whether by means of infecting her with new Alien matter or by using her as a missing puzzle piece, to set in motion a chain of events which eventually lead to the birth / creation of the Xenomorph.

Building off of my last topic, this could explain why Shaw isn't in Alien: Covenant. Maybe what we see of Shaw isn't actually "Shaw" at all, anymore, but something else. 

It's a far fetched theory, but anything is possible. What do you think?

122 Responses to What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-11-2016 1:23 AM

@BD

Matrix/Transcendence/Green Lantern

Paglen/Green.

One of the curiosities of A C, not unlike other film developments, is we know that a substantial shift has taken place as to the way the story is going to be framed and equally and probably more unusual for a franchise the entire trajectory has changed. It seems to me that together with some of the really informed remarks made to you we can learn a lot about the style of the film and its preoccupations because we know what it is not going to be.

What strikes me forcibly about the original writers Paglen/Green and the movies Transcendence/Green Lantern/Matrix is they deal with duality in a very science way. For Paradise to have an alternative dark living reality which Shaw and David find there way into and are affected in a  myriad of contrasting ways seems to be a very strong theme of the original idea and an exploration of the Engineers and their fall could have been at the centre of that focus with the Zeno a mere foot note. The horrors they find are relatable but new.

The introduction of John Logan has changed everything and looking at his body of work whatever the genre or its success you can see the films are driven by a characters pursuit of …….. and the reasons for that pursuit come from a very strong sense of constantly revealed interconnected back story. JL is very strong on building the characters motives through a rich back story and as they make that journey we feel more involved as who they are and why they are the way they are becomes clearer. A virtuous cycle of enlightenment.  

Now when I apply that to Alien Covenant to put the characters into a point in time and then through the narrative explore why they are doing what they are doing seems to fit with the overall tangent of the backing into and the way the synopsis works.

In away I am saying the same thing but from a different perspective but this is why Shaw is absent as a constant feature and why we move forward 10 years.

I think all of the themes that you and Caryn have highlighted will be in the mix.

Zeno/Engineers rather than Engineers/Zeno.

The mendacity of Weyland Yutani.

But more than anything David who is he now and how has he become what he is and the threat that poses will I feel sure by the revelatory revealing part of the movie which Daniel's will have to respond to.

Why move from the light into darkness via Science Fiction to light into darkness being revealed by character?

One thing that may have influenced Ridley is not only the floridness of Prom and its elliptical way of showing methodology bothers the audience but Transcendence failure and Green Lantern come to that. Instead like his first success character will come up front and ideas will be more literally handled.

ST Nemesis did not work but it was an attempt through character to explore duality through cloning  Shinzon/Picard and that of course is not exactly a million miles away from doppelgänger David. Nemesis of course was written by John Logan.

For me all the signs point to character rather than ideas being the focus with the ideas revealed through the narrative outcome whereas in Prom it was an ideas movie which characters fell into and the outcomes where narrated 3rd person or emblematic rather than sown into the outcome. It was about intellectual curiosity rather than emotional attachment which is what made A L I E N work so well.     

 

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1621 XPMay-11-2016 9:05 AM

 

Big Dave:

 

I think that it could be interesting if Shaw would turn into some mix of a human or either cyborg or something close to the Xeno while still have some human traits (which would fit with how we got the dog Xeno in Alien 3). They could make this interesting by doing something Gigeresque. Maybe there is some hope to turn Shaw into something interesting? In real life genes can mutate and we get new kinds of humans and also different species by mixing so something similar could happen to Shaw. One idea is to get her kind of like a terminator but maybe that idea is used too often by now.

 

There are different things that the human Shaw could be mixed with. Some of them is either a cyborg, some sort of monster, or what ever. As far as personality it could keep some parts from the old Shaw while letting the new version be the most of her personality in order to avoid the annoying parts in Prometheus. If there is someone that is a good writer and knows science-fiction well enough it could work.

 

In Buddhism they say that this life is a step towards a new life and maybe the same thing could be done to Shaw in the movie?

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-11-2016 2:04 PM

@MJ

Very good points, and i think yes they want to take us to a way similar to Alien and Prometheus but give us better use of Characters rather than Plot like Alien did.  Rather than explore a movie about just a handful of Humans and Engineers.

I think the Door is open on the Engineers and all those clues from Prometheus, they are not going to be de-canonised just left to not be explored as deep.

We dont have much on Covenant but we can make a few Guesses at some of the Plot, Pretty Much like Paradise Lost was.. but i think we could make more of that.

Here is a comparison of a rough Plot based on what we new of both movies.....  (this does not include the source leaks as there leaks lead to more detail).

Paradise Lost -----

This seemed to set up the main Plot as following Shaw and David on their way to the Homeworld of the Engineers, Finding some remains of a Ancient Culture and Race of would be Gods/Creators.  And meeting with some of them and finding out their True Nature and Agenda further moves away from Shaws Faith and Belief about our Creators... if she felt what she found out in Prometheus a Horrific Truth that defies her Faith... what she finds on Paradise is far worse.

These beings who are not Gods (but are not Engineers) are far from Benevolent... But Alas David has his own Agenda and he has a Cargo of Black Goo and will unleash Hell on Paradise....

It would seem this Narrative would gave us some explanation to our Purpose, the Purpose of the Engineers and the Evil Biology and also lead to use seeing similar creations to the Xeno if only vaguely.  And maybe explain why we dont see Engineers again in the Franchise....

David maybe wipes them out?

(other potential things that could have been covered that the comments and plot hints never lead us to but as these are not mentioned we cant assume Paradise Lost would have shown us LV-223, Weyland-Yutani etc).

Alien Covenant ---

Alien Covenant is set years after Prometheus and maybe after David arrives at Paradise. we have a Weyland-Yutani Company Ship that is on route to the same World that David is on, with no real clues as to how this came to be or was it coincidence?

It would appear that the Covenant Crew for the most part may arrive at a World they thought was Uncharted Paradise, only to as the Plot goes on.. find out its a World that bares some connection to a Ancient Race maybe long Gone... with little or no remains left.

The crew would soon have this culture explained to them by David, and maybe a little about Prometheus Mission.... David will gain their trust and captivate them at what a find they are on to.. before BAM! he unleashes his True Agenda.. 

And something that was either Evolving on that World, after David had done something... or something he came across left behind by the Ancient Culture that was their thousands of years ago. 

This gets unleashed and all Hell Breaks Out...

The Covenants Lander is destroyed with as a Sabotage to prevent the Crew from Escaping and Falling into Davids Trap..... or to prevent what ever is unleashed from leaving Paradise.

Eventually David will spill some beans about what is going on, or we shall see some Flash Backs that vaguely cover it.

Maybe we find out the company knows, because they have had contact with David and the Covenant is just another baited Sacrifice like the Nostramo and Hadleys Hope?

(there will off course be other elements that we are not aware of yet, but so far thats what the Synopsis and information has lead me to)

The thing is this is part of a 2-3 movie Plot and i cant see them spilling all the beans as far as the Xeno.. i mean 2 more movies that cover very similar to Xenomorphs and what ever few survivors from this movie do after....

i think future movies would have to bring up the Engineers a bit, and maybe the next movie could show us the survivors going to LV-223 to destroy the horrors left behind...

Especially if David has a Agenda, and the Company know and are playing along with him.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-11-2016 2:11 PM

The source at first said they did not know quite why their was such a Change of Direction but it seemed the reception from Prometheus and Criticism of the movie and where the 2nd movie was going... compared to the Anticipation for Blomkamps Alien 5 and how this movie would give us the Xeno Fix.... as Prometheus never gave us as much answers to the Xenomorph as far as When/How/Why only just vaguely made links and was trying to steer more towards what the Creators of the Xeno and Mankind had as their Agenda of which the Xeno was a small part.

This is kind of how i felt to, that they (FOX) felt that a movie that would cover the Xeno more and give us Answers Sooner, would be what the Fans would want to see.

There is also the case of a few changes that Blomkamps Ideas had so as to not step on Prometheus 2 Toes.... we know Alien 5 had different strains of Xeno DNA and maybe Xeno DNA Manipulation... and captured Engineer Ship, and use of Engineer Technology and also Genetic Morphing of Human DNA.

Maybe its a case of give the Xeno clues and answers more of a cover this time, so Alien 5 cant step on its toes and maybe Alien 5 would then draw fans in with Alien Covenants more Xeno clues to then wanting to know more about the Engineers who are behind all these horrors..

Thus depending on reaction it allows them for Alien Covenants sequel to bring a bit more Engineers back into it?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-11-2016 2:21 PM

@Thoughts_Dreams

Yes there is some ideas that could have been used, but we dont know what part Shaw will play, would she just be killed off Screen and never have nothing explained...

Just David saying "unfortunately Shaw did not make the Journey, the Engineer Ships were not suitable to support Human Life"  "she is in a better place now and finally found her own Paradise"

They could pull that, and so no need to cover anything and leave us with a unanswered Mystery of what really happened... did Shaw die in Cryo Sleep?

The Paradise Lost hints where quite open... it seemed Shaw arrived at Paradise to meet these Gods who are not Gods but are not so nice guys... David would unleash Hell on them... and the movie was set up to have a sequel so a 3rd movie...  The After Math maybe and who knows.. was Shaw to survive?

However the Source claimed otherwise, it was not clear if the ideas they claimed they came across where for a Two Part  like say Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows or all the leaks where from One movie with a sequel planned after..?

I had made a Topic on this before... and the last information i ever had i will have to add it to their but they are very coy.... and hint that themes from it could be carried over to the rest of the Alien Prequels.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-12-2016 9:03 AM

 

@BD

A L I E N - Paradise Lost Mid October 2015

A L I E N - Covenant Mid November 2015  

Not to be pedantic but I think the Paglen/Green Engineers/Zeno story David, Shaw matrix into the dark side belongs to a period before Paradise Lost.

The new crew were beginning of 1st Act by mid October with the PL title. What shifted was the title and the sense that Shaw had gone from a small role to not appearing.

The ten years may have alway been in the mix it is just that we only found out through the costume designers remarks in December.

This to me is relevant it means a lot of the philosophical pre occupations of P L will be in Covenant and that David and Shaw went ahead (excuse that) and that in some way we will likely understand what has become of Shaw now indeed once they firmed the title they may have decided to hide Shaw as a revelation not Noomi but what she has become.  

 

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-12-2016 2:23 PM

Which is almost certainly an egg.

Chris

EngineerAdmin21442 XPMay-12-2016 3:46 PM

It would be rather interesting if Shaw did become an egg, like the one seen in the deleted Alien scene when Ripley finds Dallas. A metamorphosis rather than a production. If so, I wonder what the hell she will look like... 

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-12-2016 6:46 PM

Since its Shaw, I'm sure it would be rather darling as eggs go.

I know it's unlikely, but here's a possibility: Holloway was becoming an egg. And/or Fifield. 

Why is the Morb's head so big? It doesn't need to be that big just to house the tongue. Maybe that's where the Goo is produced, in its base form. And it uses the Goo to reproduce with local biology.

Imagine that the Morb isn't just a weapon. It's a punishment

Chris

EngineerAdmin21442 XPMay-12-2016 8:07 PM

You do bring up a good point about the Alien head being abnormally large and seemingly pointlessly so. It's not so far fetched to assume that it could be, as you say, a housing for a series of glands which produce bio-altering matter. Like some insects and their poison, this could certainly be an angle they pursue.

Taking it one step further. What if the second jaw was originally intended to act as a delivery method for the bio-former? Like a mosquito injects numbing agents and draws blood, the Alien could have originally used this biology to inject it's "poison".

Keeping in mind, I think the Xenomorph we're all familiar with was not its pure form and has since been tainted and altered. By David? By the Engineers? Probably both. Thus with such tampering perhaps the Xenomorph lost or was denied it's ability to inject and produce such a chemical and so, evolved to use its second jaw as a mere blunt object, leaving it's extended cranium an empty cavity. Who knows, but you might be on to something!

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-13-2016 5:32 AM

Being chased around and caught by the Morb is one thing, but that egg transformation is the proverbial Fate Worse Than Death. It raises the stakes of survival dramatically.

No one wants to die, but to die slowly and suffer while your body inexplicably reforms into something else? That is Horror. And so utterly unlike anything ever seen before. It's a shame it had to be excised from the movie, especially since that left a door for Cameron to thunder through with his very different interpretation of things. 

I believe both concepts can co-exist, but to communicate it gracefully without a lot of exposition would require the kind of visual clues many fans don't seem to have patience for. 

For example: Shaw couldn't just now be a egg. Even hard core Alien fans would need to understand how she got there, and without hobbling the narrative with clumsy flashbacks or dialog, unless it's key to the story itself. The same is true for however she may appear. 

It could very well be that if she does appear, it's as a Brain Salad Surgery Giger Goddess. If so, I just hope she's about 20 feet tall. But then we'll all know how it's gonna end.

Chris

EngineerAdmin21442 XPMay-13-2016 10:48 AM

I agree with you there, being slowly digested and transformed into something else is far more terrifying that being chased by an Alien through a dark ship. At least death by Alien or even Chestburster is relatively quick. I'm totally okay with Ridley and co. exploring this scrapped concept for the expansion of this universe. Seeing Shaw having already transformed will just raise a ton more questions if they don't.

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-13-2016 11:19 AM

@Aorta & Chris we are going to see why the zeno which also means how the zeno and why its Bio-mechanoid. Indeed RS has posed those questions to be answered.

Male human Sperm + Black Goo fertilises an infertile woman and generates Mr T. who comes over all unnecessary with our Engineer and we receive the Deacon.

The ignition comes from a human female.

Big Idea David, Shaw, the goo, the full life cycle and a new translucent Zeno where we can see its mechanical parts. The ignition comes from a "f...... robot" and a human female.

Problems abound, in the past, more explanation required. Daniels like Ripley/Ash wrings it out of him. "What happened to Shaw we heard her message you deceitful son of a *****"

or Goddess to David's God maybe in this movie a chamber with the likeness of Shaw with eggs placed in front of her huge head preparing us for the final movement the final revelation the final twist. left as Emerson Lake and Palmer would say on a Knife Edge. 

Maybe the Covenant is between Shaw and David. its all to play for.       

       

 

 

 

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-13-2016 11:44 AM

Mr. T. That is brilliant. That's what I'm gonna call the Troglybite from now on!

And a Shaw Head room...what if 10 Earth years have passed for everybody except for David and what's left of Shaw, who've somehow been there for thousands of years?

:D

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-14-2016 6:29 AM

@ aorta 

I see why the passage of time might make sense and this whole notion of time travel may explain the divergent narrative for A L I E N 5. But Shaw is more than a small victim in my mind, her coming with David and hell is the trigger and to get the audience to realise what has happened, a huge Brain Salad type image or God Head of Shaw would be a very strong not be misunderstood visual message. That combined with a member of the crew being turned Eggs Alien real time would equally get the message across in a very powerful way. "She is responsible and here is how it happened"

I am one of those who believe going from the prefix P to A is also about being more literal, so I get the concern you are projecting on to the film makers which is to provide unequivocally clear story beats which have integrity. Again I think 10 years is important in providing the room for the story that we see unfold visually and through example and through dialogue. David Ate is very good at that sign posting in Prom so I wouldn't be surprised at the same in A. C.   

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-14-2016 7:47 AM

@Michelle

I agree David is going to be huge. What a career Michael Fassbender is having! 

I don't see David as evil, I think he pulverizes life with the same jolly indifference as a stamping press.His type of production flattens everything in its path.

I don't see Shaw as a small victim, but I do see her as possibly David's victim? We shall see. I see you subscribe to the Brain Salad outcome. If this comes to pass, and she is indeed hopefully quite large, we can imagine it's Shaw who ends up on LV426. Perhaps she is the first female Space Jockey?

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-14-2016 11:33 AM

@aorta 

In amongst all the philosophising and themes I am a pragmatist. Michael Fassbender is huge "12 Years" and "Jane Eyre" he does everything. When you consider how Warner Brothers made room for Orlando Bloom in the Hobbit fiasco you know how the suits think. The difference here is David is a hugely fascinating character and crucial to the narrative.

You are quite right David is amoral not immoral just like the guys with denture issues.  

 

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1621 XPMay-15-2016 2:07 AM

Big Dave:

 

Actually I wouldn’t mind if they explain the death of Shaw that way by letting David say something like that. Some people might think that it would be a lame way to do it but I would be fine with that. Because David is an android he might not be very emotional when he would tell about Shaw’s death, compare that in contrast with a human being that gets emotional when things like that happen. We all react to death since we are humans but to let an android do that could be interesting.

 

To me it boils down to how much you care for Shaw when it comes to how much of an explanation you want. When it is an interesting character meaning that it is well written and that you care for it you need to expand on it before it dies but in the case with Shaw I would be fine if David explains it in a way that makes sense although it won’t be needed to have a long story behind it. Remember in the beginning of Alien 3 when the doctor (I think it was) said that they drowned in their cryo tubes, well something like that is enough to explain it and then you can move on with the story.

 

As far as David killing all the Engineers (except maybe one) I think that it would be better if there were some left somewhere so even though they don’t do much after the last Prometheus movie or after Alien they could wait before doing their next attempt to bring order by attacking mankind. This could be a potential idea in the Alien universe. By not showing this people could do their own versions in their heads which is interesting because the unknown seems to be interesting to people.

 

Chris Picard: I agree that it is more terrifying to have a slow death than a fast one. This reminds me of the cut scene with Dallas (I think that was his name) where Ripley finds him turning into a monster. Dallas says something like “kill me” before Ripley finishes him off with a flame thrower. You can see their pain in this scene which makes it work within the context of the movie.

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-16-2016 10:06 AM

The next few movies are going to explain the Xenomorph Origins...  it seemed Prometheus went for the Space Jockey Origins Story.

Right now many people have different views on how we are going forwards, a lot are going towards the Xenomorph and Eggs and Space Jockey being a Event post Alien Covenant...

I dont buy that at all.... but we cant rule it out but it goes against every clue in the franchise and Ridley Scott...

Ridley had said the Derelict has been there for thousands of years, he later said it happened within a few hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223 that killed off the Engineers (well most).

LV-223 had a Mural, Fresco's that showed different kinds of Face Huger, the Deacon, a Engineer and Strange Creature and then what appears to be this Creature Holding a Egg.  We have to ask.. are all these then a Prophecy? Or are they to show us Achievement or something from the past. because those Fresco's and Mural had been there for at least 2000 plus years.

Ridley said the Space Jockey and Derelict were related to the Engineers and Juggernauts they were BROTHERS and Spaight Draft intended to sugest the Engineers and Space Jockey are one and the same.

The Engineers where 15ft in Spaights Draft and 12ft in Lindeloffs and so i think all these are not coincidence.

I think the Derelict and Space Jockey are not Human, or David and it has been there for thousands of years but we cant rule out David having played a role if some kind of Space Anomaly occurred so David had been on Paradise for thousands of years.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-16-2016 10:17 AM

As far as the Egg Morph, i have covered it a lot and i think the most Logical Explanation is that the Egg Morph Process is what leads to a Xeno Queen Face Huger, i have covered this in detail before and explained why this fits perfect with he Xeno being the Perfect Organism as far as Procreation. 

How does the Big Chap Xeno do this?  well maybe the Lambert Scene can answer it, maybe the Xenomorph needed something from her so that it could then transform someone into a Egg Morph?

The question is how does this happen from Prometheus? As we have seen the Xeno is the one that can do the Egg Morph?

I am not sure the Goo would do the same thing?

David would know about Shaws Baby Squid, and he would have some idea of how it happened, now he has Shaw in Cryo-Sleep (so we can assume) he is free to experiment with her.

Would David not want to know what becomes of the Trilobite?  Would a conversation between Shaw and David pop up where he asks her what went on in the Life Boat?

Would David then want to know what comes next after the Trilobite, does he know the Process is a Deacon? Does he go to have a look?

So many possibilities.

Having Shaw turned into something that gives rise to something related to the xenomorph is a way to make use off her Character rather than kill her off.

This is what the "source" hinted at as far as Green/Paglen Draft but it seemed they hinted this happened within the time frame of the next movie.

But now we are fast forwards to the Potential Aftermath of such events, which includes Weyland-Yutani Merger.

Maybe Covenant is set after the events that the Original Prometheus sequel was set in?  Maybe there is a reason we are jumping over such events to get to the Xeno/Alien Connection..... what if this was planned for a 3rd movie?  But with Alien 5 ideas could they risk putting Alien 5 on hold until after 2 more Prometheus movies and have them put fans off the franchise... and fans having to wait 6 years or so for Alien 5..

Maybe they had to then take some elements from latter on in the ideas for Prometheus to Alien and release them first... then cover the other elements that was intended first after...  kind of coming in from the reverse?

 

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1621 XPMay-19-2016 9:02 AM

Big Dave:

 

 I hope that the Space Jockey isn’t human, that would make it better since it is more unknown if it isn’t human.

 

David would maybe like to know what happened to the Trilobite but the question how will he know the answer? I don’t know. Hopefully we will see something like the Squid in Alien Covenant it would at least be a way to connect the two movies if nothing else. By the way, I hope that it won’t be dependent on a discussion between him and Shaw because I don’t want Shaw to be in the movie. Honestly Shaw was annoying so if she is needed in the movie to explain the Trilobite then I would rather not have the Squid explained. To not have the Squid very much explained makes sense because before Prometheus they hadn’t explained very much of the Xeno either and that was alright. Every detail doesn’t need to have an explanation.

 

Wouldn’t there be a risk for David to get ripped apart again if he goes to look for the Deacon? Imagine the Deacon having grown to a big size so we can then imagine that it is strong. With the Engineer ripping David’s head of  then the  full grown Deacon might be a bigger threat than the Engineer (to David that is). Eventually David is smart enough to know that there is a risk.

 

The Queen Xeno, I don’t know. I think that they should reject that idea and make it more alien so to speak. Maybe you will make it too familiar if you connect it to how it works in nature (hives and bees, they said something like that in Aliens)? Do you know what the difference between the queen as Cameron explained it and the way Giger thought about it?

 

I wouldn’t mind if Shaw is turned into something that is connected to the monsters but I wouldn’t like to see her as a person that she was in Prometheus although maybe for a short scene and then she starts to change into that

 

Yeah Covenant might be a Prometheus 3 and then we get 2 after but I prefer if they build it in a straight line so to speak or else it would be confusing at least that is how it would be to me. As far as Alien 5 maybe many people want that so maybe they would get annoyed if they need to wait much  more (I have seen discussions where people claim that they would rather see Alien 5 than Prometheus 2/Covenant ) that.

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-22-2016 12:26 PM

@ BD

Apologies BD I just re read this thread simply because I do not want to repeat myself and consider all that we have gone over but I did reread one post of yours which I had ignored which is most interesting and Caryn was taken with.

We were discussing backing in and the point was this we have A.C ---------- A 5 ----------- Final Pre Equal.

You made the point that the 10 year jump allows the final pre equal to focus on the missing ten years and Shaw which may lead to LV426. This fits with the idea of only revealing so much in A C for A 5 and then still be left with the crucial connective tissue leading up to A L I E N to tell. By reversing the pre equals and going 3 back to 2 and using time travel and going back to LV426 we then get the full explanation of the Engineer Mythos through the transformed Shaw whereas A C deals with the what why and how of the Zeno. Naturally the more risky movie A L I E N  P E would only get made if A C and A 5 work. The grandest biggest most thought provoking film may be the last made but not the last in terms of pre equal chronology. The very last moments of the film may lead to the derelict and the space jockey but from an entirely (time travel) fresh and unorthodox perspective. 

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-22-2016 2:54 PM

@Thoughts_Dreams

I cant quite remember what Giger had to say about the Queen, but i know his idea before Aliens was that there was a Egg Silo that basically operated as a Egg Producing Facility and that the actual Silo via Pregnant Bellies Produced the Eggs... his Mural also seemed to show us the Derelict is connected Genetically to the Xenomorph and is actually a living Ship that produces the Eggs.

If i remember right he also had ideas that involved very sexual elements as far as the Procreation that revolved around the requirement of Hosts in a Horrific almost Rape kind of theme.

A lot of his Artwork depicts strange sexual scenes that involve females and dont forget the removed Lambert Scene...

Maybe Female Genetic Material is needed by the Giger idea of a Machine that Produces the Eggs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-22-2016 3:01 PM

@Michelle

Yes maybe they could be going that route, we cant be 100% sure...  as it seems the Original Idea had been changed somewhat as indeed we would have seen David and Shaw arrive at the Engineers Homeworld where there would have been at least some Engineers or related beings alive.

I think Fox had a look at some of the general negative feedback with Prometheus and its lack of Alien connections of Answers, and in seeing a lot of interest in Blompkamps Alien 5, i think they may have decided to tone down some of the Engineer/Mythos and History and Agenda elements and also tried to go at it in a way where we can get some more clues to the Xeno...

It seems Alien 5 would have touched upon a few ideas that could conflict with the Planned Prometheus 2 and 3 and so maybe by bringing out a Alien Prequel that would touch upon the Xeno more at first.... would then allow Alien 5 more freedom with what it wished to cover.

Then if a more Alieny Alien Prequel worked, and Alien 5 and both loosely touched upon the Engineers and also gave more Alien Clues... then if these movies get a good reaction... maybe fans would then start to wander about the Engineers a bit more and then a 3rd movie or future spin off can explore them in more depth.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1621 XPMay-24-2016 9:04 AM

Big Dave:

 

I think that it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they would have followed the ideas of Giger and not the Alien queen. I don’t say that the queen idea is bad but it could have been explained in another more interesting way but the explanation that involves a queen is alright.

 

Giger had some strange ideas but if there were bellies as parts of the ship that could become pregnant then that could have been interesting but maybe the queen was easier to realize in the movies.

 

Yeah Giger’s idea had a lot of sexually connected things to them but then sex and death are connected.

 

The removed Lambert scenes could have been interesting to have in the movie but maybe they felt that it was a little too much to have it in it. It could have been interesting if they would have decided to have it in the movie. I bet that there were many interesting ideas that they had that were not shot in the movie.

 

If female genetic material is what is needed for the producing machines to make eggs then I wonder how that would be realized. How would it get the material so to speak?

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-25-2016 8:04 AM

I have covered more on this in the other thread

Theory: Weyland-Yutani are run by Robots, Synthetics pursuing the Xenomorph for means of evolution!

As to answer your Question to how....?

I am sure Gigers Artwork can give us some ideas ;)

Speaking of which i came across this Tribute piece by Santiago Betancur  very nice and what if this is Shaw? 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

easternbunny

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-28-2016 4:18 AM

Good question , since this would excactly connect to the situation we find at the end of
prometheus . One smart ass answer I try right here : She won ´ t get to meet Ripley .


What ´s quite interesting to me , what sort of answer will she get ? Spoken ironically
, will she actually find out that David is a ****bird by not finding out about it at all ?She might be having her own private cryostasis in space , for example , or let ´s just say she is in paradise
right now . What ´s more important to me is : What sort of answers do we get out of , let ´s say the next chapter or what happens to the feel which " we " had at the end of Prometheus , when that
ship flew away . And basically i am not interested at all ( ha ! ) to what chilly happens before we get
to see the Nostromo crew entering that place where they encounter the Alien from Alien 1 .
I am really interested in what will be the role of that ****ed up alien creature , we get to see at the end of Prometheus . Otherwise it would be nice to find out about how it belonged to ... whatever David seems to have planned since quite for a long time . Well whatever I would be dissapointed if we don ´t get a bit of supense and thrill right here ( it ought to be one hell of a slayer ) aaaand yet I am not sure - it surely could do " the magic trick those alien queens sometimes like to do " in order
to get to a l, let ´s say , little less abandoned place , somewhere in space .

Can I think of David taking down a couple of thousand engineers just by using a mantra like
" We come in peace " . Nope . Do I think that Shaw will get an answer that satisfies her curious way of being curious about it , her somewhat agnostic faith in a higher purpose ? She could get the opportunity to count two and two together , but unfortunately David is much better in doing so -
it ´s pretty clear that he is one of these " i don ´t give a **** machines " ( and personally I ´d prefer Bishop and Call ... by far , whenever it comes to the task of being stuck in ****ty hell , somewhere )


Are we supposed to land over there ? I am not sure .

easternbunny

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-28-2016 4:36 AM

@ Chris Picard . Ok , your thoughts are plausible in a way , but I think you lose focus quite a bit . Lets try this ... 

Only David can figure out how to puzzle things together , and Shaw seems to play a key role in his plans , but -

it ´s not so simple to figure out if David has some sort of knowledge about what he simply " makes happen " . Remember , he also " makes happen " to get his head ripped of . Nevertheless , the creature at the end of Prometheus gets to live , but it don ´t seem to be quite friendly . Let ´s just say it might make life quite a bit more interesting for those who might like to hang out in it ´s range . Don ´t that sound good ?

easternbunny

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-28-2016 5:46 AM

To be honest , as a fan of the alien movies , I would have loved to see how the " xenomorph " somehow gets to that place where the engineers live or come from .My guess was that David was kind of annoyed about what happens , for since Weyland is his " creator " , but dead now . Well , for some reason this would be some sort of initiating a scenario , in which David turns out to be the one who is out to change the story ( next to Shaw , interested in how the story is meant to be understood ) , and in a way the " xenomorph " that hatched out of the engineer at the end of Prometheus would be exactly what gives the opportunity to do so .

Otherwise it ´s quite boring , to simply come up with " no , it is some new sort of alien , species , what not "  -

this should have been the ****ed up eldar queen straight of hell  ! She deserved it  .

Patient Leech

FacehuggerMember158 XPJun-28-2016 7:09 AM

I don't think I like the idea of David turning into some maniacal and devious villain. I think he's better as the curious robot who just likes to play with what he comes into contact with and following orders of Weyland. Now, he's obviously not going to have Weyland anymore to boss him around, so I think he's just going to be like a curious kid wanting to experiment with things and since he understands the Engineer language he will have an advantage and will probably end up getting Shaw/Covenant crew into trouble.

I just hope we have some more interesting plot elements besides "infected person wants to get back on ship" like we've seen in Alien and Prometheus already.

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