Alien: Covenant
What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

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Chris

EngineerAdmin21599 XPApr-01-2016 11:08 PM

What was a common theme throughout Prometheus which echoed personally with the character Shaw? The ability to create life. Originally thought to be infertile, when exposed the Alien matter on LV-223, by means of impregnation by Holloway, we learned Shaw was able to overcome her infertility and give birth to what became the Trilobite.

The key theme here is Shaw and her ability to create life, a trait only women posses. 

My theory is this: Shaw is manipulated and used by David as a means to give birth and spawn a new Alien. A female reproductive system is required to complete a specific process by which David can create a new Organism. Not necessarily a Xenomorph, but something that has the ability to create life itself. 

You'll notice, Holloway never gave birth to an Alien (despite doing so in early drafts of the script). It was Shaw, who gave birth to a Facehugger-like creature. Something capable of creating new life by means of "seeding" a host. 

The only other crew infected by any Alien matter on LV-223 were male and they merely transformed into zombie-like monsters.

It is my theory (of many) that David uses Shaw, whether by means of infecting her with new Alien matter or by using her as a missing puzzle piece, to set in motion a chain of events which eventually lead to the birth / creation of the Xenomorph.

Building off of my last topic, this could explain why Shaw isn't in Alien: Covenant. Maybe what we see of Shaw isn't actually "Shaw" at all, anymore, but something else. 

It's a far fetched theory, but anything is possible. What do you think?

122 Responses to What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-05-2016 9:33 AM

This would have been my chosen one though..

Interesting thing about this concept and prop is you can connect it to the Fresco Creature.   more than the Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-05-2016 12:15 PM

For me the zeno mythos has alway been an exploration  of the reproductive cycle without a moral compass. Life is created come what may. This is entirely separate from mankind's mythos where we create through consensual and pleasurable bonding. We are programmed to enjoy the pro creative act (though child birth itself has its moments !)

I have always felt the Alien was about amoral reproduction. For me the drawing in of the promethean myth and the film enhanced and deepened that mythos.

The little worm became a virulent vaginal headed monster.

The black goo brought unspeakable pain and anguish to both Fifield and Holloway. If left would the black goo have reorganised both their DNA and created a drone i do not think so but certainly an early stage mindless destructive creature. But of course the cycle begun with Holloway to Shaw was a clear forerunner of the more perfect life cycle which would have ended with all hosts destroyed on the way to the Deacon who interestingly I think we assume to be a Queen (through Shaw).

In Covenant we will see the life cycle perfected and it would make enormous philosophical sense for that to be achieved by an amoral creature with out a moral compass. Intimately connecting D8 with the mythos of the zeno (procreation with out morality) does not feel like fan service it feels like what might have happened.  

 

 

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-06-2016 4:20 AM

By Fan Service i mean that i think when you look at the way Spaights draft was changed for Lindeloffs both had a similar back bone...

Lindeloffs was to explore the Engineer and Creation concepts more and tone down the Xeno and LV-426, Lindeloffs was trying to show us the Engineers/Space Jockeys where more than a Race who just Create Bio-Weapons to unleash on Worlds.

I worry they are not going back to Spaights idea but where as Lindeloff evolved the Engineers and toned down the Xeno.... they are not going to explore the Xeno and tone down the Engineers

some fans did not like Prometheus because it never answered the Space Jockey and Derelict or showed us how the Xeno was made or had any Xenos in it.

and so when i hear them now going for a More Xeno movie and even links to Ripley... which they said the Franchise is about Ripley.... well i am concerned.

Prometheus sent me down a path, Spaights clues in his draft helped me to narrow a path....  but now they are going the route that there is only ONE GOO...  maybe that depending on the motives of those using it or those who are infected... it can create or destroy.

I was drawn to the Engineers Sacrificing something they accidentally created (Deacon Mural) to create a Black Goo that carries its DNA this was the Perfect Organism and so this Organisms DNA to them was more Perfect than the Engineers own.

Now seems the Mural would be shown as a History tale of how the Xeno came to be.... and so like a Prophecy.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPMay-06-2016 11:18 AM

Big Dave:

 

Yeah the goo had something to do with it although I can’t say that I totally understood totally how it worked when I saw it the first times. I understood it better after I did some reading about it and watched some videos where they were trying to explain it. A movie where you need to search for threads and where you need a Blu-ray with extra material to understand it is partially a failure (not totally) but the worst thing about Prometheus was the characters. Since this post isn’t about the characters I will stop about the characters here.

 

The goo seems to be a mutagen of some sort but it was too weak in how it explained the Xeno connection. I am not against the idea of the goo but it could have been explained better. Someone is to blame for the weak explanation of the process and that someone could be Fox or Ridley mostly I guess. As a side note I wonder how the goo is turned into acid, but maybe that is an unnecessary side note since the whole thing is about the goo and Xeno DNA but the Xeno isn’t acid only so.

 

Maybe the scarabs would have been better since they had acid in them also if you compare it to the Xeno but I am not totally against the idea of the goo.

 

I am very disappointed in how they did the Fifield transformation (Zombie version in the movie) even the version that you preferred even though it wasn’t as Xeno as the one I think of was better. Here is my preferred Fifield version:

 

http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/jokerdeldesierto/media/ac_02.jpg.html

 

OK so Fifield had grey skin in Lindelof’s version so the movie Fifield isn’t his idea? I wonder if it was Ridley that made it worse?

 

The idea that Lindelof had to tone down the Xeno connection could have worked a bit if they wouldn’t have had so much stupid stuff in it. I don’t say that all bad things in the movie are Lindelof’s fault but they should have kept more of Spaight’s ideas. To explore the Engineers isn’t a bad idea in itself but it should have had a clearer connection to the Xeno and the Engineers role in the Xeno. My wish is that (as far as the next movie is concerned) that they are both exploring the Xeno and the Engineers but that they pay more attention to the Xeno the next time without it being a pure Xeno movie. As far as the Engineers go you got to make them interesting and not make them into random angry big guys but explain them better otherwise they will look like random big guys that go on a rampage after their team looses the final in super-bowl (LOL!).

 

Yeah Prometheus didn’t answer the Xeno very well or the Space Jockey either. There are things in the movie that I like and things that I don’t like but it was a disappointment compared to how it could have been for example the characters and especially Shaw since she had a big part in the movie. If they do Alien Covenant well and make smart links back to Prometheus then maybe Prometheus makes more sense despite its many flaws (like: “Oh, OK now I understand why they did that”). Hopefully that is what they will do to an extent so then people might understand Prometheus better and even if the movie has flaws. Maybe they could use David for that so when they see things there David might say “yes we saw that on the planet LV-223, there were…” and then he explains what happened on LV-223 and how it connects to what happens in Alien Covenant and the Alien franchise in general.

 

My biggest disappointment about the characters was probably Shaw because she was supposed to be the lead person but they made her annoying and dumb (“It is what I choose to believe” “It is not a map it is an invitation”). She also said that there should be no weapons, does she even know what security measures are? I hope that we will see very little of her.

 

As far as Ripley goes I am not primarily interested in her story. I am interested in the Engineers and their connection to the Xeno. This includes if the Engineers have made other monsters also but please don’t make the Alien/Prometheus franchise about Ripley because it shouldn’t be.

 

Sorry for the long reply

 

 

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-07-2016 2:00 AM

@Big Dave

General

 

There are two requirements that views of Prometheus and speculations about A C revolve around. 

Are the characters in the foreground believable and relatable and does their arc make sense and draw us in rather than distract. 

Is the underlying history and mythos they are exploring coherent, clear and well developed and come across as original and thought provoking.

Where I think Prometheus took risks is offering a palimpsest of information both in and outside of the movie. The creation of the Weyland Files and the Ted Talk help clarify and develop our understanding, that kind of presentation is counter intuitive to modern life where everything is reduced to soundbites and reduced to what can fit on a T shirt. 

Black Goo

Right now I would say their is the benign catalyser the seeding agent we see at the beginning. However LV223 was an attempt to add another strain into the catalyser and perfect it (akin to steroids). The black goo in the temple represented that achievement and it was set before the head as an offering of achievement. One of their experiments included merging their DNA  with the strain through the lifecycle described on the mural and they created a deacon, thought better of it and sacrificed it, and we see its tomb in the movie.    

At the same time it was going viral, there appears to have ben a mass polluting of the Engineer population, our exploding head friend,  they decided to intervene in man kinds development and create a noah moment. But it was done not as an act to start again a fresh start but a different start. The Engineers on LV223 were fallen angels, everything about their goo's outcome leads to a zeno-characteristic outcome and when the Prometheus appeared with its mixture of human vanities, incautiousness and hubris the surviving engineer was more clear than ever that they need to be wiped out and replaced with their own black goo strain.    

What is fascinating to me is for Covenant a Croissant is arriving with a big idea David bringing Hell and a lot of zeno black goo. Who is lucifer and who are angels in this movement, Certainly by the time our friends turn up on the handily named Covenant that movement will have been achieved. Had they fallen or were they pushed ? 10 years no "Shaw" that we can recognise ,David playing Lucifer? we shall see.        

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-07-2016 2:10 AM

David as "Lucifer". Lucifer was highly plausible and could fool the easily fooled and can be played as the seemingly good guy whose ideas are interfered with. This idea was something caryn and I were discussing that Daniels and D 9 her puppet may look like bad guys from the start against David's seemingly good guy. So when its clear they are all bad guys and the Covenant crew is collatoral damage who is the good guy ?   

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-07-2016 4:49 AM

Yes Michelle thats interesting, and as far as " One of their experiments included merging their DNA  with the strain through the lifecycle described on the mural and they created a deacon, thought better of it and sacrificed it, and we see its tomb in the movie."

I was going along those lines, too i have covered all aspects of this in depth and well its a very very very large read.  So i will try and make it in a Nutshell

*Sacrificial Goo  some Mutagen or maybe even Parasite Life form, that attacks the DNA of Organic Life it comes into contact with.  It breaks down the Genetic Material of a Organism and then stores this Genetic Information within itself and also acts as a Evolutionary Accelerant.

The Mutagen/Parasite now becomes a New Substance that has Genetic Material of the Host/Sacrifice it has consumed its DNA from and this new Substance when it comes into contact with a New Organism will infect its DNA and seed the DNA that it is carrying (via Organism it consumed).  This passes on those stored DNA traits and particular the most Evolutionary Strongest Traits onto the Target and thus causes the Targets DNA to now be a Hybrid of the best DNA Traits of the Organism it (Mutagen/Parasite) consumed and the best traits of the Organisms infected.  It Merges the best parts of both Organisms DNA and also acts as a Evolutionary Accelerant.

Example.... introduce a Dog to the Sacrificial Goo and it break down its Genetic Material to form a new Material Substance that when it infects say a Human we then get a Dog/Human Hybrid i.e a Werewolf.

*Urn Goo this is the stored new Genetic Mutagen/Parasite that has consumed DNA of something related to the Xenomorph.  The Engineers have used the Sacrificial Goo to harness the DNA of such a creature  so that they can use this DNA in various Experiments and also as a way to Evolve life on Earth into Life that has this Xeno related DNA.

*Mural i think shows they had either created or encountered and experimented on a Organism related to the Xenomorph until they had achieved a result they saw as having Perfect DNA, more Perfect DNA than a Engineers and thus Seed Worlds with the Xeno related DNA Bio-former is seen as superior to their own DNA.

Where the Xeno Origins connect is anyone's guess, the Xeno is either a Organism created from some Original Organism or Creation... or Xeno related Organisms come from the Xenomorph.

Was the Xeno Progenitor a Weapon or Punishment meant for the Rogue Engineers, that failed... and so these Rogue Engineers Perverted and used this on their fellow kind of creators.... and then Perverted the use of the Evolutionary Mutagen/Parasite Creation Tool (Sacrificial Goo) to then create a Abomination

something New that these Engineers saw as being superior to their OWN DNA and Creators... and so instead of creating life in their image, they now pervert that by creating life in the image of the Dragon/Serpent/Eagle that is the Xenomorph Progenitor.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-07-2016 4:51 AM

The Clues are their to support this from Star Beast, Alien, Prometheus as far as the Spaights and Lindeloffs draft....

Its only after Post Production they changed their minds and tried to explain the Goo in a different way, they never had a Set in Stone base rules that Govern everything to do with the Xeno and Engineers and so they kind of go along and change and make things up as they go along.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-07-2016 5:01 AM

"Yeah Prometheus didn’t answer the Xeno very well or the Space Jockey either."

The Clues are there, maybe they are coincidence or not?  But things could be changed now as they just make stuff up as they go along.... when they set out to make a Alien Prequel they had ideas but then they have not had a SET IN STONE Base Rule of Thumb

*Space Jockey the movie has shown the Derelict and Juggernaughts are very similar if not the same, the Space Jockey and Engineers Bio-Suits are similar if not the same.

The connection was made... it was like.... see these Engineers, they had been messing about creating or experimenting on life throughout the Galaxy, and then for some reason they was experimenting with something that was related to the Xenomorph, that was being used as a Bio-Weapon on those Ships but 2000 years ago something happened...  and it caused the death of nearly all of them.

We can then look at clues to be drawn to that these Experiments on LV-223 are either something carried out on what ever the Space Jockey was carrying years before.... or the Space Jockey was carrying results of those experiments years after.

This is what i was drawn to, prior to Ridleys comments which he suggested the Space Jockey event happened within a few hundred years of the Outbreak that caused all of those dead Engineers in Prometheus.

Thus we was looking at a 1800-2200 years prior event, that was connected to and for similar purpose as what was going on down on LV-223 at some point in time.

However they could be going for a U-Turn on that, and anything goes...

I just hope at the end we get a Story that is coherent, plausible, makes sense and fits in with everything.

Oh Thoughts_Dreams.... that CGI Fifield i liked better than what we got, you could make out maybe this Fifield was on his way to changing into something similar to the other concepts i posted.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-08-2016 3:18 PM

@BD

"I just hope at the end we get a Story that is coherent, plausible, makes sense and fits in with everything".

We have come along way since the original question was posed. There seems to be a measure of agreement that if the prequels are not tangental but instead backing in, Shaw has to be used sparingly. I am all so struck by another one of Ridders announcements that there are three plot strands to the movie.

The Covenant and its crew.

The Engineers/Zeno  

David & Shaw (a small part) and when he made this point David was considered 3rd act rather than what the film was about.    

If this is correct then the background plot is going to emerge very slowly.

We, the audience, and Covenant are flying into a mystery and what we need is a really coherent expose of the mystery. We can have some jeopardy and uncertainty but Covenant needs to deliver answers in the manner you indicated.

I have to say given the synopsis I think David comes in quicker than that and because Shaw is inert he can hold on to the mystery much longer than if she had been around.      

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-08-2016 3:43 PM

Yes could be, and some reports are that Rappace will not be in the movie as far as shooting any scenes... and Fasbenders David 8 also has only a smaller role.. but he is playing a doppelganger.

How much Screen time he gets is unknown, but we know that a lot of the movie will revolve around the Crew of the Covenant who arrive in the first Act, and the movie is not a Space Suit movie.. which means a lot would be on the surface of a habitable world or aboard the Covenant Ship.

I still think Michael Biehn's comment regarding Alien Covenant being set THOUSANDS of years prior to Aliens is interesting.

As far as multiple Plots the source i had had said such a thing prior to Ridley saying so too....  the source explained it as Prometheus had 2X Plots....  One being the Sacrificial Scene the other Prometheus Crew... he said the Finding of the Cave Painting could be another Plot but he said this was one that connected to the Prometheus missions Plot.

Interesting they said the movie would have TWO Xenomorphs both different to each other but both similar to the Xenomorph and ONE was from a new event (after Prometheus) caused by David and the other a OLD Event.

This was at the time when Ridley said there would be No Xenos, and the movie would be stepping away from Alien as the beast is cooked..

Now there is no way to prove now this information was legit.... as it seems the draft is changed. it would be like if someone had read Spaights Alien Engineers and passed information on it around the Web, but there was never Spaights Draft released to read and back those claims up... So unless a Green/Paglen Draft comes to light we would never know...

But this cant rule out some elements.... such as multiple Plots... and so yes maybe we could see Flash Back Scenes like the Sacrificial Scene set thousands of years ago?

Maybe David starts to Narrate whats going on and we then Flash to a Actual Scene from the past?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPMay-09-2016 1:24 AM

 Big Dave: First I would like to say thanks for the discussion. It is nice to debate with other geeks. :D


Second: what I mean is that there are answers in the movie but you got to pay attention. I had to write down what was going on in order to understand the Xeno connection and also about the Space Jockey. Another point that I am trying to make is that they could have explained things better for those that are not willing to lay the pussel to understand things (so to speak) but that is bad writing or bad editing of the movie (one of those). When you try to explain things you go to make it less vague or else the explanation leaves much to be desired to say the least.


The outbreak would be interesting to see how that happened.


Yes I also hope that we will get a movie (Alien Covenant) that is less confusing and that has better characters. Better characters compared to Prometheus is a must or else I guess that it will be a failure. I don't say that they need to be extremely simplifying when they try to explain the Space Jockey-Xeno connection but they need to do better than what they did with Prometheus.

 

Fifield's turn into a monster could have been so much better, that was a disappointment. If they will do something similar or that reminds of it in Alien Covenant I hope that they will not go with the Zombie route but rather something more Xeno-looking.


I am glad that Rappace won't be in it or at least have smaller role but I hope that they will give David some scenes since he was one of the good things about Prometheus. Rapace might not be a bad actress but I didn't like the Shaw character. To be fair I haven't watched many movies that she is in. Hopefully they will give David some scenes but I am also interested in the new crew. If they will make the characters better this time I think that the new crew members can be interesting.

 

Hopefully they will have different monsters and not only the old one. I wonder how the new one will look. If I remember it correctly (which I can't guarantee) they said something that one would be like a jellyfish or something. A jellyfish monster could be interesting to see which would also be something new.

 "I just hope at the end we get a Story that is coherent, plausible, makes sense and fits in with everything."


Exactly, I hope that they think about that this time.

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-09-2016 7:28 AM

Yes there was clues but you had to really look hard for them and you had to use other drafts and Star Beast to get some understanding...

Without that the clues were vague and ambiguous, the edit of the movie and things changed and left out also added to being a bit of a mess.

As far as the Monsters... Ridley has never came out about that.... The source i had told me about it.

At the time Ridley was on about no more Xenomorphs, and Beast was cooked... and they are step away from Alien.

But the source said... nope there are Two Monsters in the movie as far as Xenomorphs, they are different to each other but when we try and connect them to the Xenomorph we can see they both connect.. One is from a New event caused by David.

One is very much like the Giger Necromon 4, and similar to the Unused Ultra morph.... and they are going for it to be more see through than the Xenomorphs, and so it would be like a Jellyfish in that the Exoskeleton is see through.

Weeks latter, Ridley came out and said they are going to re-introduce a fresher form of the Alien, a fresher form of the Original Alien in the 3rd Act.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-09-2016 7:36 AM

So it would appear the ONE Monster would have been similar to this..

We can see that some of Prometheus Concept work the creatures where also more white, and translucent than we got on Screen and they did intend to have the Xeno in Alien in such a way but could not make it work.

Maybe they was going back to something based off the Giger Work that inspired Giger to create something for Alien...  combined with trying to attempt the Transparent Nature that they could not achieve in Alien due to Technical Restrictions at the time.

So i think the idea is something like this

Compared to more like how the Xenomorph was like this

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-09-2016 7:50 AM

Here is one of the Prometheus Concepts and you can kind of see the Translucent head,  but i think they was going for the whole Creature being the same..

In Alien they did work on this... but it was scraped for the Non Translucent version

At the time i was told about the Translucent Monster i was not aware that they had made a Translucent Xenomorph suit in Alien so that was a nice surprise after a member on here pointed that out.

Necra released a New Toy based off the Original Idea

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPMay-09-2016 8:55 AM

 Big Dave:

 

Well that is one of my complaints about the movie, how many even bothered to look up old drafts? I didn’t so they made a bad choice to rely on them.

 

I remember that you wrote something about David wanting to play God so I guess that the new Xeno will be connected to that. It is interesting that they will connect to the Xeno but not be the same since we have seen it many times although I don’t think that it needs to be as similar as the Deacon was.

 

What I am wondering is if David knows that the monster is dangerous or if he is just curios and doesn’t count on the fact that it might be or if he counts on it but doesn’t care. This could tell a bit about David’s motivations and how he functions so it has a potential to be very interesting.

 

A jelly fish monster mixed with the Ultra-morph could be interesting. There are potentially many versions of the Xeno so they don’t need to have the same old. I can come up with many versions in my mind what I mean is that there are many possibilities for new monsters but let’s see what they will do.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Ridley has a problem to make up his mind or if he is just messing with people. I don’t know him and I am skeptical to what the media writes so I don’t know.

 

Hopefully they will go back to more Giger-like monsters to honor Giger, that would be nice.

 

Thanks for posting the pictures, they were interesting.

 

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-09-2016 12:46 PM

I like to think that Shaw is technically not dead because she is an egg. That David made her into an egg, and 'introduces' one of the covenant crew to her. :D

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPMay-09-2016 1:15 PM

Aorta:

 

Something like this? ;)

 

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/smiling-egg-8855521.jpg

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 6:50 AM

Yes we dont know what becomes of Shaw....  we dont know the Plans...

There is a Gap Missing from Departing LV-223 (can we assume Shaw left at the end of Prometheus? and how does David get to Paradise without Shaws help?)

But i dont think we are to be shown the events of post Jan 1st 2094 until when the Covenant Arrives?

The Shaw Technically Not Dead, was a remark made by the source i had at the time when the Hell on Earth and Shaw dies Leaks came about. The source said the movie is not a Hell on Earth and not based on Earth as far as after Prometheus and Prior to Alien and Shaw does not Technically Die.... But they did not explain as it was a Major Plot Point.

But we cant be sure if any of this was TRUE

What we do know is Rappace, is not credited in the movie, she will not be part of the Cast as far as Shooting for the movie.

When asked if she is in the Movie, Rappace was very Coy, but her Expressions did seem she knew something.....

So yes SHAW could play a Role, a Small Role is what was first Reported.. after Covenant Name Change...  but Rappace is not Shooting...

Alien 3 Michael Biehn  and Carrie Henn where not Cast in that Movie at all...... But Hicks and Newt appeared in the Movies Plot they was in the movie...  they where DEAD! They did not neen Biehn or Henn to play Dead Hicks/Newt..

So maybe its similar?

Bishop was a Animatronic... until Micheal Bishop turned up.... had they decided to not involve Micheal Bishop who was a Human (assumed) who created Bishop Android...

Then Lance Henriksen would only be needed for Voice only...

So just as they made a a Synthetic Fasbender Prop for Prometheus..  Think Madame Tussauds then having a Shaw in such a way, be that Dead, or Cryo Sleep or just as a Prop to be used in a Plot Device like the Engineer Chest Buster Scene...

Then Shaw can play a Small Role, but not have Rappace needed in the movie at all....

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 6:57 AM

Another thing at the time of the Prometheus Hell on Earth!  Name came out...  the source said that Prometheus Name was going to be dropped.. and they was toying with Paradise Lost, or Pandemonium as the name or a Combination... but Prometheus would be dropped...

What we got Months later was Alien: Paradise Lost and links to Paradise Poem in which Paradise and Pandemonium play a Massive Role... so the source was pretty close with that... as at the time i got the information.... Ridley had not said the movie is based on Paradise Lost.

it was based on following David and Shaw to go to the Engineers Homeworld for Answers, but finding not Gods, but non Benevolent Beings more related to Fallen Angels.  And a movie that would be stepping away from Alien and the Beast thats Cooked...

Yet the source had said nope the movie  has more Alien Links than Prometheus.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-10-2016 6:59 AM

I am hoping the human eggmorph idea is revisited, it's my preferred lifecycle. The Queen was hideous and all that but really just James Cameron's ego writ large.

I liked Aliens a lot when it came out, but I was also just a kid when it came out. As an adult I'm not as much in need of guns and explosions and all that. Well, not in an Alien movie anyway.

I also don't need Ripley, or even a Morb (Xenomorph) and the only let down for me about Covenant is that these items are being brought back, I was as done with them as Ridley was but this movie has to serve the zeitgeist, so I'm just thankful it's in Ridley's hands.

I just want more Ridley Scott otherworldliness, and more David, and hostile, death incarnate organisms, and that possibly when we see Shaw, she is an egg ready to burst.

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 7:21 AM

We dont know yet what the plan is....

some have high hopes of now getting the Xeno and Answers and seeing our Xenos back...... but others not so much and especially because of the Time Frame... for some of us we cant buy the Xenomorph and Eggs on Derelict being a event that happens Prior to 2122 and after 2104 and this within 18 years of the Events of Covenant.

There is HOPE!

Ridley suggested before the Space Jockey was related to the Engineers, a Brother, he also said the event had occurred within a few Hundred years of the Outbreak that killed most of the Engineers off on LV-223.

That to me pointed at the Event being nothing after Prometheus and nothing to do with a Non-engineer or releated being in the Space Jockey Chair... i.e no Shaw, David or Human from Alien Covenant.

But they could change that, or come up with some Time Travel?

A key thing to note is Michael Biehn Alien 5 comments a while back.... Alien 5 is set 20 odd years after Aliens and Newt will be back and we will see a passing of the Torch.   And that Alien Covenant would be set THOUSANDS of years before Aliens.

So there is Hope!

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 7:32 AM

As far as Shaw and why she is not in the movie, or may be in the movie in a Small Role but Rappace wont be in the movie... and if we maybe can use the source i had saying She Technically does not die..

Lets look at what could happen as far as David and Shaw and the Engineers Evil Biology...

*Shaw is infected again similar to Prometheus but this time David is in full control.... no C-Section this time... unless David is in control....

Shaw would then Die, or be Alive!

*Shaw's DNA is infected or gets infected and she becomes a Egg Morph... or similar.

She then kind of does not die, but then maybe she also kind of does die?

*Shaw is infected her DNA Changes and she Evolves into something else... Like the Worms, like Fifield...

She Technically does not die in this method.

*Shaw is used as part of some Giger Perverted Scheme that has to do with Procreation... she is used or attached to something, that then uses her to create something or become something...

The source said one concept showed a Humanoid, attached to a Machine or Bio-Mechanical Surface more like a Bio-Mechanical Cathedral Altar/Chancel or Ambulatory area.  They said it was like a Giger Version of the Superman 3 Robot Girl Scene.

We do see Giger had made most of his work depicting such things... so who knows..

Again this would mean a Shaw who Technically does not die too.

*Then again she could be shown as being in Cryo-sleep Pod of the Engineers but she is not awoken in this movie...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-10-2016 7:36 AM

I'm just not so sure we can trust anything Bienh has to say about it. Or Sigourney for the matter. I think they're just all super excited to be relevant again even if the format is in questionable taste.

Sigourney put her own integrity into question when she recently referred to Covenant as "Prometheus 2, or whatever it's called". She's pandering to popular opinion, and it's not a little bit disgraceful. Can we expect much more from Bienh?

Now time is a very good device, especially given what can happen when traveling at light speed over great distances. I don't know, I'm not a physicist but it could be quite reasonable that time dilation has much to do with how we get from point A to point B. And that would certainly add to the sort of surreal hopelessness of the situation.

My hopes are high too, but I'm pretty confident that we're gonna get a great, fun, surreally creepy movie. I'm also confident it will be the victim of pedestrian wrath. Gotta love the Internet!

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 7:48 AM

Assuming the source was correct and they are going for similar....  Then we could find Shaw either...

Getting Evolved into a Xeno/Human Hybrid.... or Shaw is connected to something to enable the creation of something.....

Would seeing Shaw used as below.. work?

Or having her Evolve into something like Sil from Species crossed with this Artwork...

What is interesting is the last image is Li   this can mean Godess in some Ancient Cultures but also be Short for Lilith  and when we search for depictions of Lilith then they do seem similar to the few drawings etc that Giger did with this Li Character

Sacrifice Plays key in the Franchise, and so maybe the way to obtain the Goo the Fire, requires a Sacrifice..  If David finds out how they obtained it but the source is all Dry.... maybe he can use Shaw to restart the process?

What is interesting is the Fire and Stone Comic, a Android Elden  is infected with the Goo and becomes something else and eventually he Merges with the Temple Complex, becoming part of it for some reason... like the Deacon Mural and like some of Gigers Bio-Mechanical Artworks.

Maybe im getting ahead of myself but thats a idea...

What if Human Sacrifice is needed for the Engineers Fire, what if Humans or Females are needed to be hooked upto some Bio-Mechanical Monstrosity of a Machine that hen Siphons something from the Sacrifice to produce a Nectar of the Gods.

Gigers work does seem to have Humanoids connected to Machines, for some bizarre purpose and that seems to be sexual in the ways he does it and sexual is linked to Procreation.  

Maybe the answer has been staring us in the Face all this time.... this got me now thinking about the Sources comments with this idea thats Popped in my head now seems to match some of that stuff.

They did say the Engineers Agenda or Agenda of their creators and thus Shaws Answers are something totally shocking and not what Shaw would hope for..

Do the Engineers need us then for some purpose and seed... Gigers work seems to show Females connected to Bio-Mechanics in sexual ways and re-production and creation seem to be a part of a lot of his work.

So maybe the sources comments and what they claimed they saw as Concept fits in?

Then we come to THE MATRIX.... Mankind was connected to those Machines to drain us of Fluids that the Machines needed to operate... maybe thats the Matrix Connection or Part of it?

Who knows... if so WOW, Totally Awesome Giger inspired Ideas, have to remember Giger thought up that the Derelict Ship Produced the Eggs and his Mural for Alien seems to show this... his Egg Silo Pregnant Bio-Mechanical Bellies seem to fit with this..

But Alas..... we cant be sure of the Source was even True...  they claim they are and only way would be if Green/Paglen Drafts came to light... or depending how much from those makes it to Alien Covenant and its sequels.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 8:07 AM

@Aorta

Biehn Interview

"They’re talking about doing another ALIENS movie, with Neill Blomkamp, and Fox came and announced it and Sigourney (Weaver) has come out and announced it. The basic idea is acting like ALIEN3 and 4 never existed, so if you go on Neill Blomkamp’s site, everyone can see all of the artwork for that. I know Ridley Scott is doing his movie first and is going to be the executive producer on this one, so I’m really looking forward to that. I know that Ridley’s focus is on the second PROMETHEUS (now titled ALIEN: COVENANT) and I’m sure that he and Fox both don’t want that and Neill’s movie to come out right next to each other, because they’re kind of two different worlds, with ALIENS taking place thousands of years later, which is how they explained it all to me, but at the same time, they want to give them a similar feel. I know they’re putting the brakes on Neill’s movie just for a little while, but I really think that it would be embarrassing to Ridley and Fox and Sigourney if they just didn’t make the movie."

Highlight this part...

"because they’re kind of two different worlds, with ALIENS taking place thousands of years later, which is how they explained it all to me"

To me this means he has spoken to Ridley, or Blomkamp and they had mentioned that at very least Prometheus 2 was set thousands of years prior.

This may not mean that Alien Covenant will be, it could be but who knows.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-10-2016 9:10 AM

No doubt it's possible, I only question the source, someone we haven't heard from as an authority on things Alien pretty much ever, outside of talking about his own character.

Same with Sigourney, when did she become an authority? Yes, she had an influence over her own character arc, but that's about it. It just seems to me that all these folks are coming out of the woodwork because Blomkamp gave them a stage.

That said, I don't mind the idea of some kind of time warp at all, it'll just make things that much more weird and remote for the humans. David of course won't care at all, except to maybe exploit their discomfort.

"What did your father die of? Ebola?" Remember that? The demented half smile? That was a great moment. Now imagine him as a diabolical tour guide of paradise.

"Oh no, I'm not alone. Doctor Shaw is here. Would you like to meet her?"

"Yes. What is that?"

 "That is Doctor Shaw. Look closely."

SPLURT

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPMay-10-2016 9:31 AM

I'm not refuting your opinion, but especially after Sigouneys outburst (as if she doesn't know what Alien:Covenant is called) she kind of threw anything anyone in the Blom Camp might say about it into epic dubiosity. If Biehn is privy to story details, I'm betting it's likely he was talking out of school, so to speak. 

Back to Noomi: I always figured something awful was gonna happen to her. I'm just disappointed I'm not going to see it happen, unless she really is in the movie, in some biomech transformation. I'm kinda hoping for something a little less ethereal and a little more horrific.

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPMay-10-2016 10:43 AM

@BD

If it is a time travel solution would it be a one off achievement in a pre equal to get back to the events of LV426 and come in through the back door. Would it connect with time travel to get Ripley and Hicks and Newt into the post ALIENS scenario or is that such expeditious plotting that it would feel a little to convenient.    

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMay-10-2016 2:56 PM

Yes that is the better way to do things, if some event that is a one off causes a tear in time and space that David and the Covenant enter through...

And after the blast at the end of Aliens it opens this tear up again so one Sulaco goes through the Alien 3 Timeline and the other Alien 5.

But who knows...

Any event set thousands of years ago could be a visual Narrative of David reading or even passing on what he has found out about the Engineers and then we flash to a flash back in the past.

At the moment who knows what will be the case, hopefully more clues will come along

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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