Aug-06-2013 8:22 AM
The popular theory that I have been reading in forums and from Ridley Scott is that Jesus was a representative of the Engineers. He was sent to Earth as a last effort to steer humanity in the right direction. However, I have maintained the unpopular view that Jesus was not an Engineer. I believe that the Engineers on LV-223, not only wanted to destroy mankind, but, more importantly, to kill Jesus and his "corrupt philosophies."
Aug-06-2013 2:51 PM
The time frame and "crucified" deacon mural are clues that Jesus is somehow a motivation, but I'm not sure if the Engineers were friendly towards Christ or not. The early Christians believed Jesus was coming back in their lifetimes to reward the just and punish the wicked in "the great and terrible day of the Lord". Maybe the planned destruction of humanity was just that - Judgment Day. But someone or something intervened to stop or at least postpone it.
Aug-07-2013 11:31 PM
Maybe Jesus was an early human taken by the Engineers (aka Titans and/or other god creatures from early civilizations' mythology?), and then returned by them to Earth in an attempt to calm the violence that was prevalent, or maybe as an ambassador for the Engineers. Once crucified, the Engineers considered this their last straw and started to develop biological WMDs for the destruction of the human race on Earth. Their eventual return could correlate directly to the Rapture, the Plagues, the Apocalypse, and the Second Coming in the Bible. Interesting.
Aug-08-2013 1:40 AM
I refuse to believe that the plot in Prometheus has anything to do with some silly biblical stuff, even though Ridley Scott might have hinted at it.
Aug-08-2013 10:30 AM
Don't despair Spellbound, even if the biblical symbolism isn't just a red herring, I think Ridley will throw us a curve or a twist. I believe it is equally likely that the LV 223 Engineers liked or hated Jesus. What is clear is that something happened around the first century AD that was the final straw. I see several possibilities: (1)Jesus was our last chance to reform ourselves and what did we do - crucify Him; (2)The Engineers foresaw that monotheistic religion would displace the ancient religions which really were about worshiping them; or (3)the Roman Empire was just too decadent and violent for their tastes. In any event something around that time frame convinced the Engineers that humanity had to go. Virtually all religions have an end game or a prophesy for the end of the world. I simply think the LV 223 Engineers were planning to initiate their version of Judgment Day 2000 years ago. Why that didn't happen perhaps will be answered in Paradise.
Aug-09-2013 1:35 AM
But even if the engineers for some reason sent Jesus down to reform us to non-violence and harmony then why would they "destroy" us just because a few jews didn't like him? What about Asia, Africa and the Americas, are they responsible too for that too? It just doesn't make sense.
And if they wanted us to stop worshipping the monotheistic religions why don't they just come to earth and say "stop"? Do they really have to destroy us for that?
Ideally, I would have the plot to have nothing to do with jesus at all :p
Aug-09-2013 8:50 AM
Don't forget we don't even know if they wanted to destroy us after all in their eyes maybe the black goo improves life forms. They might of needed us to fight for them or something...but yer too many possibilities just gotta wait till part 2.
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Aug-12-2013 12:04 AM
I think they saw how much God loved the humans he created and became jealous when he sent his own son to die for us so that we could live forever in Heaven. They wanted to be the only ones God loved. Maybe they became evil and jealous of human beings. They are far superior to Humans. Why would God love them? Perhaps they feel that they are better than any of the aliens on any other planet. I'm excited about part 2. I love the main character and hope she is not killed in it.
Aug-12-2013 12:45 AM
I don't think that Jesus factors into anything. Everyone has missed the entire volume of the old testament which is more appropriate to the projected timeline (what about Sodom & Gamorah?) Jesus can come along later but I doubt Christianity will feature prominently in either case.
Aug-12-2013 12:48 AM
if the movie has anything to do with Jesus (and that's one big IF) i suggest another scenario:
following humanity's creation by Engineers , the humanity becomes so wicked they (Engineers) destroy it with the Flood (Noah's flood) hoping that the humanity would repent... however, nothing helps, humanity stays the same (surprise surprise) and many years later Engineers want to destroy the humanity again - maybe for good this time. but then Jesus shows up with his message of love, peace and repentance. Judeo-Christian faith and culture picks up and starts spreading... Engineers see this and decide not to destroy us ... but they are nonetheless disgusted with us - their own creation (who wouldn't be)
Aug-12-2013 1:02 AM
First, I think if the answer to the question is more in religious tone, I would think of it to encompass all religions and not center on just one. We think of God having all the answers, being there when we need him/her, and certainly being there when die. And we know the engineers don’t have all these traits. Unless an Alien bursting out of your chest constitutes being reborn. I for one don’t think of it as being reborn. Anyway, the first thing that comes to mind thru all of this is how man has survived all this time thru what we believe to be God’s tests. Between been hit by plagues of locus, or floods, or some devastating event, we still find the strength to go on. And if this happens to affect anyone, we might question God’s plan. (We have to have faith everything will be ok. ) Maybe questioning why did he take my family but leave me… So to me, if the Engineers (Gods) decided it was time to send a ship carrying loads of black goop, knowing what it would do to us, it sounds more like a test. Kind of like saying, now you will be judged. It would mean everyone would have to band together to defeat this foe. And basically putting away greed and petty differences aside, or none of us would survive.
If I really thought deep and hard about this, I might think they did the same to the Predators way before this. That of course if they were their creators as well. And if they did, you can see that they survived and now use the Aliens as a right of passage for their young. It might be how the tradition started.
Thank you for listening, or reading. I know I was reaching, but it was fun. Thanks.
Aug-12-2013 2:18 AM
Your timing is off a bit. Jesus didn't die 2013 years ago. He was born 2013 years ago. He 'died' about 30 years later (that's of course if you can prove that he actually received a mortal wound at Golgotha). If that's what Ridley Scott and others are basing this on, there are going to be a lot of disappointed Science Fiction fans.
Aug-12-2013 3:42 AM
Why did the engineers wanted to destroy mankind?
Well In my opinion "engineers" aren't the same are "space jockeys".
There's not much evidence to say the whether they are/aren't
firstly: (there's 2 intros)
Movie starts and we see a guy who drinks the black liquid to produce life, and in the alternative we see a bunch of them
they seem passive, bit like a monk to me. And look at the alien space-ship the shape of it. Its not what we see the "others" have
also look at the clothing (the others have some prestige body armor/military stuff)
Secondly: (Might be off-topic)
Space jockeys have been in a few Aliens novels, they always hated/despised the humans, and if they would work with the humans it was cause they had common enemy the xenomorph
So i wasn't shocked at all when they decapitated David's head off
Next topic religion, does religion play a role in Prometheus?
1. An out-break happened around 2,000 or so years ago. Could be referring to Jesus or not
2. Shaw believes in God,
3. Aboard the ship they are celebrating christmas (a sci-fi movie wouldn't place/state Christmas like a key part)
4. In the deleted scenes, you get to see a baby Jesus get put up on the Christmas tree - so Jesus is something important Scott Ridley wanted to show
5. Shaw gets an unnatural pregnancy who is then told by a non human
6. The Deacon's birth date was meant to be on the 26 or so of Dec, which I think is a direct reference to Jesus birth date. Also Jesus being born on the 25th is only a guess could of very well been on the 26th
Aug-12-2013 4:50 AM
I don't think that it has anything to do with jesus being crucified. I thought that was the whole point of jesus being crucified', the whole dying for our sins thing. There Is something in the self sacrifice, which seems to be a major theme in the story.
I think that human kind are just xeno media.
"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"
Aug-12-2013 8:16 AM
Well we really dont know how this movie franchise will portray any connection, i mean it could not have none or little at all, as Ridley could change his mind.
we have to remember the movie we got to see in the cinema was nothing quite like the Last Draft of the Movie, or indeed many of the unused shot scenes we never got to see and i dont mean the deleted ones as there was more footage than that. Never mind the concept work.
So while the Engineers wanted to set off to destroy us 2000 years or so ago, the fact this date co insides with the time of Christ could be purely coincidence, however i doubt thats the case and that the references was there for a reason, maybe that could be to mislead us who knows..... i.e Red Herring..
But then Ridley did go on to hint that indeed Jesus was maybe sent down by the Engineers as a Emissary to try and persuade us to change our ways as Mankind around the time of the Roman Empire was behaving in ways that offended the Engineers or went against the desired purpose they wanted for us.....
Ridley hinted that the Roman Empire then Crucified the Emissary they sent down, and thats why they wanted to destroy us.
We have to remember Ridley has and will make comments regarding the franchise that change and contradict his other comments so its not set in stone that this Jesus/Engineer is a path he will take...
But he may go the route of some Emissary we interpret as Christ to had been sent down, but this could all change if Ridley thinks maybe going this route is controversial.
If he did indeed go such a route, then i dont expect them to show this Emissary was a Engineer, but more likely a Engineer Hybrid created maybe from a Human Woman Virgin Birth to create a part Engineer part Human Emissary.
Also Ridley could go a curve ball and have it that some kind of event occurred to create such a Emissary but this Emissary then went about teaching Mankind false things and proclaimed he is the Messiah and that the Engineer race are not our creators...
Maybe the Engineers then played part in disposing of this figure and then also taking out mankind after this figure is disposed because Mankind still are rebellious to them and those that are not, believe in the teachings of the Hybrid Emissary.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Aug-12-2013 11:04 AM
Ok, the comments sound interesting, but the thing the Engineers created is more than a doomsday virus - it actually lingers and becomes so dangerous that it is a threat to its creator. It is one thing to create a virus, entity, etc to destroy mankind - but as we saw from the movie; it is a threat to its creators as well. For such and advanced species that would seem to be a fatal flaw.
Aug-13-2013 8:14 AM
There have been a lot of good comments and a lot of good points. I think it's important to note the following as well:
In the Torah / Old Testament there are Nephilim. There's some debate over the exact meaning, but generally this noun refers to giants and/or the sons and daughters of the gods. Some interpret the noun as "fallen angels" or "devils." Regardless, they are clearly stated to mate with human females. The Nephilim are mentioned both before and after The Great Deluge (the flood that Noah and his family survived).
Within the context of the film, I wouldn't be surprised if the Engineers were historically viewed as gods (or titans or giants) while their biological WMDs were called devils (or their equivalent).
Nov-18-2013 2:37 AM
Ok. A lot of good ideas here but I have one that I think almost everyone is missing. The religious undertone is just that. A tactic. This film is made to make you think about 10 different possible plots but here is the most possible that I can see. The engineers not only created the Xenomorphs, they worship them. Hence, the murals in the tomb with the goo. The beginning with the Engineer sacrificing himself. We believe it was to create humanity. Yes but only to plant a seed. Then to allow a population to grow to the numbers they needed to later bring thousands of canisters of black goo back to grow their true love, the Xenomorphs.
The other possibility is this. There are two types of Engineers. If you notice the one from the beginning looks to be a passive creature with a religious robe that sacrifices himself. What if the Engineers on the ships were a counter part to the peaceful ones. They go out through space combating each other indirectly. One set creating life and the other destroying it.
I really feel it is leaning more towards the first idea. They do not appear to be peaceful in any way and I think the religious undertone was more for keeping everyone happy that was viewing the film. Even how Shaw puts her cross back on at the end. After everything she saw she still believed. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. :)
Nov-18-2013 9:23 AM
Well the process of creating life on Earth is not a fast one, that scene was Millions and Millions if not over a Billion years ago...
To wait all that long to develop a fruit to become ripe for harvest and by that ready to drop the Goo on us, to make Xenos is well bit long winded..
And the Goo did not make us into Xenos...
Maybe the 2000 years ago is purely coincidence? Ridley hinted at a Jesus figure was the reasons...
I think the bigger picture could be David.... who is David and what is David?
He is a Tool created by Weyland in our image to perform tasks so that Mankind does not have to, and these could be undertake tasks that would be too hazardous too distressing for ourselves...
David showed tendencies of not being pleased at his creator and we have seen many movies about Robots uprisings inc Terminator etc.
Remember The Bible, the Koran are not the only or even oldest religion and culture on Earth and they teach that there is just ONE GOD
There could be a connection....
By that maybe the Engineers was created like David as a tool, to perform tasks for a higher power maybe the Elders...
Maybe at some point they created mankind to then serve them? Or maybe Mankind was created as a evolution of the Engineers and the Engineers creators favored the Humans... i.e just as if Engineers was Angels and had to serve and watch over us.
Maybe the Engineers or a Fraction rebelled against their creators and God, and wanted to be all powerfull themselves and a War Broke out.
Latter the surviving fraction of Engineers then tried to manipulate Mankind to serve them to serve one Leader of them and thus maybe responsible for trying to program mankind via the bible etc...
The plan or changes they wanted for us was not working, so they created a Hybrid Being Part Engineer and Part Human to be a Emisary of their kind to try and sway Mankind to conform to the Engineers wishes.
But we still revolted and had this Emissary Crucified and so the Engineers re-weaponized the Xeno to use to not only wipe us out but create something new.
I would assume they worship the Xeno/Deacon in the Mural for either
1) Its a Mural to show the Sacrifice of a Organism to create their new Bio Weapon Goo..
2) They worship the Life Cycle of the Xeno as they saw it was a way that the Engineers could be made to carry and give birth to new life, something they could never do on their own as they lost or was never given this ability.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Nov-19-2013 12:55 PM
1) jesus wasnt born on 25 or 26 of dec. bible says (therefore every christian believes) he was born in summer.
2) religious has something to say in movie but its nothing important. (yes x-mas on ship, unnatural pregnancy). but there is IMHO only one big plot from this area - why SJs wants to destroy humanity/restart it and how Shaw can/will defend her race.. i think THERE will be this religious/humanity topic
Nov-20-2013 6:34 AM
Thats what i am thinking.... i think that maybe where the Abrahamic Religions come into it could be they are a interpretation of Mankind of a new Era of Rule by Engineers or Elders or one particular one after a War between fractions...
Remember prior to the Ambramic Religions there was not ONE GOD but many...
So this could be like a Titan say Zeus or a Annunaki God like Enlil who have overthrown the other Gods and wants to set himself up as the ONE and only GOD... thus starts a whole new process of new religions and believes in just one Deity.
This Godlike being wants mankind to rule under him alone, but mankind does not follow the ways and orders of this new One God, in which case he sends down a Emissary to guide and change mankind and when we still do not follow him.... well he orders the Engineers to pull the plug on us.
While i am not saying this is exactly the deal, i think the movie could go for a similar outcome and paint the Bible and Koran as our interpretations of the decree and orders of a last standing Elder or who ever beings are at the top of the Hierarchy.
Or maybe not and just one Elder who decides he wants to control his own creations in rebellion to his creator.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Nov-20-2013 8:23 PM
Can't see the religeous angle becoming any more than a distraction to be honest. Not because it would not make good copy but because the studio bosses would see it as crimping the potential returns.
I think they are just the equivilents of Davids, tools of the elders/gods, they got pissed and sought to take over and saw us as a threat.
Nov-21-2013 12:25 AM
I think the story should most definitely not be that the engineers are any real world deities. Stick to fiction.
Nov-21-2013 1:09 AM
i think there has been great discussion throughout the forums. I think one thing that's interesting is trying to understand the mentality of the Engineers.
Are they impulsive? Was Earth a vital target? The reason why I think these questions are important is because these beings have a greater concept of time and space than human beings do. It seems farfetched that a lone engineer would wake up and all of a sudden attack Earth even if he was ordered too. Thats like a soldier trying to press the Nuke Button after 2000 years in a comma.
The reality is that he didn't have to continue his mission right there and then. And as far as I am concerned it was an irrational move. I heard the concept that he might have been a rebel or something in between those lines. Maybe he was fail safe. The maps on Earth were perhaps meant to draw us to the Engineers in order for us to wake them and basically show it was our time to end.
However, this would be avoiding the concepts imprinted on the walls of the ship as well as the Engineers attempt to escape the outbreak. This doesn't seem planned out, especially because the first scene we see is a willing sacrifice.
Nov-21-2013 6:24 AM
I am not saying the movie would go in your face religious connections, i think it would be a supple way.
like how the Parallels of the Sacrificial Scene have some vague connection to the Annunaki Tale of a Sacrifice to create mankind from one of their own bodies.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Nov-21-2013 6:32 AM
As far as the Engineer at the end, well i always suspected that he may have had something to do with sparing mankind....
The deleted scenes seem to indicate a rational being.
My interpretation of those scenes, are that this Engineer is awoken by Mankind... at this point he was intrigued.
Once he had seen how Weyland had acted and how he ordered Shaw to be silenced the Engineer would then know that Weyland only sees his reasons for being there as important.
And the Engineer would have been told by David that Weyland wanted to be made immortal, and then noticed that Mankind had created David in their image and thus that mankind now has a God Complex and that Mankind would see themselves as Gods, or at least question why they can not be equal to the Engineers in time.
The Engineer would know mankind has the ability to reach LV-223 and that LV-223 has the Bio Weapons and Juggernauts and as David knows how to communicate to the Engineer maybe the Engineer would also be concerned that these Androids could maybe fly there ships.
Knowing that mankind is still selfish and now knows how to get to LV-223 the Engineer could not let Mankind get there hands on the Technology of the Engineers and so off he went to finish the job his brothers had set out to do 2000 years prior.
This was my interpretation of the events, and especially since seeing the deleted scenes and more so since we got some partial translations to what David and Engineer had said.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Nov-21-2013 12:00 PM
Again it would work, it seems a bit presumptous that the Engineer would come with that solution without consorting with higher up. What is also interesting is that the Engineers seemed to have abandoned Earth all together. After 2000 years no other mission from the Engineers has attempted to destroy them. They appear to be abandoned altogether.
Nov-22-2013 9:51 AM
My only explanation would be that maybe they got the order to destroy us, but the mission failed and after the risks with the Xeno and then proving that even re-weaponizing it was again too risky.
They may had then decided to just leave us to rot and kill each other and declare Earth a failed mission.... they may have thought that without there help there was no way Mankind would ever advanced to a level to reach the stars etc....
Either that or indeed its a case of the Engineers on Paradise or their creators are not aware of our creation, or they are but some war has broken out on their own Home World and they simply are all gone or there is little left of their kind that they would not bother with going to take out Earth.
But there are so many other reasons that its pretty much a open book as far as did the Engineers on LV-223 get the command to destroy Earth from Paradise and what connection Paradise has to LV-233.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Nov-22-2013 11:19 AM
Maybe at first the engineers thought that the biology of a humanoid was supreme, that they were supreme, but then they came across a lifeform that was perfect. They then proceeded to plan an override of our DNA with this new creatures DNA. I think they wanted to evolve us rather than destroy us.
The poster was good though!
Nov-22-2013 11:48 AM
The only thing is to what end however?
Its Davids comments "sometimes to create, one must first destroy" that leads us down that path...
Previously the Xeno was seen as a Bio Weapon and either the goo is a Bio Weapon produced from the Xeno, or the Xeno is just another life form/experiment that came from the Goo.
So we really need to find out what connection these Engineers had these Bio Weapons from and why. And there is a lot of possibilities.
One theory i had, that linked to Prometheus Myth is what if these Engineers was a creation by some other race or being and they rebelled against being a slave race to this being/race and decided to create a race in their own image to worship them. (or their creators used them to create Mankind and the Engineers got jelious and decided they wanted to then get rid of their creators and then get mankind to serve them).
Overtime a conflict occurred between the Engineers and their creators and also the Engineers god fed up at how we had progressed and developed and we in turn was becoming rebellious just as the Engineers was to their creators.
So they set out to reset us with the Goo...
Now that mission failed as they got burnt by playing with the creation fire to far in trying to re-weaponize the Xeno.
But now in year 2093 its come full circle and now these Engineers creations have in turn created a being in their own image the Androids like David who funny enough look like they may rebel against their own creator mankind.
The next step could had been what if these Androids rised up against mankind like in Terminator and I-Robot, then Mankind would have no choice but to try and take out their rebellious creations at any cost..
So likewise the reason the Engineers wanted us destroyed...
Now if we go back further into this cycle, could it be that the creators of the Engineers had same problems with their rebellious creations, in that the Engineers prime use was as Clone Droids.. so to speak...
They decided to use a horrific weapon to wipe the Engineers out but this failed and the ship crashed landed on LV 426.
The Engineers then knowing a attempt to wipe them out with a Bio Weapon failed by their creators, they then went down and took a sample of this Bio Weapon and attempted to re-weaponize it with the creation Goo to then destroy mankind and their creators?
The above is the kind of plot i would like to see and the basis of my Paradise story i was working on but only got as far as just jotting ideas and not put into script form yet.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017