Alien: Covenant

The FINAL Canon Debate

Pinned Topic12,134 Views191 RepliesAdd A Reply

Gavin

TrilobiteMember9516 XPJul-25-2012 9:33 AMMany, many times other members and myself have put forward the possibility that the following film franchises all exist within the same fictional universe and are thus all canon to one another... [center][b]Predator - AVP - Prometheus - Alien[/b][/center] ...Yet many, many naysayers and detractors voice their opinions stating this is not the case. 9 times out of 10, such arguments are subjective, from individuals whom don't like the idea. Now, while some of those supporting the idea of these franchises existing within the same universe may also have subjective arguments, I do not. I have looked at this debate from an objective point of view and always reach the same conclusions... - There is more information in the movies to suggest they are all set within the same fictional universe - There is no contradictory information in the movies that states otherwise - There has not been any official statement stating otherwise To that end I challenge the naysayers to disprove, with verifiable sources for their information and statements, why these franchises are not part of the same universe.

191 Responses to The FINAL Canon Debate

Engineer Tech Brett

OvomorphMember59 XPSep-10-2012 7:35 AM@Snork: What are you getting at with you last post? Where did you get your information from? The company name is very important. If Weyland Corp did dissolve after AVP, who is Peter Weyland buying the Certificate off? Well we know he got it from Companies House for his new company. That would mean that Weyland Corp in AVP would be finished. Although we were told by Charles Bishop Weyland that nothing drastic was going to happen to the company when he was gone. I think it’s crazy that a company that big would fall apart after one man dying. Are you saying that Weyland Corp in AVP is dead and the Weyland Corp in Prometheus is a different and new company? [i]Turns out corporate law allows a company to exist, and then falter, and a new company with the same name as the previous failed company to emerge.[/i] I’m pretty sure that there are restrictions in place to stop things like that happening. Well, you can have the name but to completely replicate a previous company, I’m not so sure. The timeline argument isn’t moot yet. Some other things here: At 36 seconds in on AVPR with the Tom Woodruff commentary: Tom Woodruff: we were brought in on this project obviously because of our history with the franchise , AVP franchise as well as the alien franchise. So they are separate then? At 02:36 minutes in AVPR with the directors commentary: Greg : this is the trophy room. We had fun there. If you look up on the right, there’s the space jockey. I think that’s a cousin of the jockey that was in Ridley’s movie. Colin: second cousin, I think. Yeah. Looks nothing like a Space Jockey (Engineer) skull. We all know what a Space Jockey (Engineer) looks like and they don’t look like that. Infact it isn’t even a skull it’s a helmet on a trophy wall for skulls. What’s even worse, that’s not how they look. At the end (1:30:45) of AVPR they say: (In reference to Yutani) (Directors) John: What is the linkage? Colin: well, the idea with this scene was to show how did the technology get so good by Alien? Greg: we seen Weyland in the last movie, so the idea was….. Now we’ve established Yutani, and that she’s some sort of evil corporate power. (Alec and Tom) Alec: well there is the one tag here with Ms Yutani. So we’ve seen Charles Weyland in the last film, who’s the father of modern robotics. We now know that all the technology is so good by Alien because of Peter Weyland. He and his Company created everything. AVPR is trying to say that Yutani developed the technology for space travel from reverse engineering predator technology. FTL Space travel was developed by Weyland industries. Keeping with the timeline, it says: [i]After years of litigation, Weyland wins the David patent lawsuit against the Japanese start-up Yutani Corporation, effectively protecting the investments of both Weyland Industries and its shareholders.[/i] (A startup company or startup is a company with a limited operating history. These companies, generally newly created, are in a phase of development and research for markets. start-up company: A new business venture that seeks private financing.) No way is Yutani going be considered a start-up company after 25 years. Another thing, in the AVP commentary Anderson says that he wanted casting continuity with the Alien films. He picked Bishop because he was an android in Aliens and Alien3. You have been saying that maybe Peter Weyland wrote Charles out of company history. You are also saying that Peter Weyland’s Company is different from Charles’ company. If that’s the case why would Peter Weyland’s company design an android based on someone wrote out of history or from another company?

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

Playbite

OvomorphMember0 XPSep-30-2012 12:59 AMDoes by any chance think about that one scene in the beginning of Prometheus where the crew are briefed and they show the hieroglyphs matching up the idea of 'meeting our creator' I thought one of the hieroglyphs was used in AvP 1 the movie. So that would conflict with the AvP movie. As of writing this post I cant seem to remember 100% about the hieroglyphs though.

ricierijr

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-03-2012 10:16 PMXenomorphs were not created in the end of this movie. I can say that due to the panel seen by the Prometheus crew, where an xenomorph drone and a xenomorph queen are clearly visible. This movie doesn´t challenge the continuity, as the xenomorphs already existed before. Some clarification is needed, yet, to the xenomorph emerged from the dead alien, but it can be worked IMO.

bobbycorwen

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-07-2012 10:05 PMalien resurrection was gash but it had some good ideas, its the first of the movies which display the xenos heightened intelligence and capability, showing they were not a hive mind creature.

oduodu

XenomorphMember1221 XPOct-13-2012 6:14 AMSnorkelbottom May I ask to you a question ? AT THIS STAGE : 1 Have you found anything in or on the 3d blu ray that conclusively proves that avp and alien IS NOT in the same universe ? Does the signal Weyland discovered as was shown in the extras in any way prove that Yutani did not receive a predator shoulder mounted laser gun ? Would Yutani not have had a technological advantage over Weyland in technological development (because of reverse engineering the predator gun) and be ahead in space travel and weapons development meaning they should have discovered that signal beforE Weyland did ? I just wondered what your opinion might be on this .

thegoodtimesguru

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-14-2012 7:25 PMLooks like we have a " loose cannon " on our hands.

Playbite

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-14-2012 8:40 PMI had watched the movie on Friday the 12th, I watched the movie with Ridley Scotts commentary. Ridley said during the movie that While working on the film he realized that he messed up with the location in which Prometheus took place. We know that Prometheus takes place on LV 223. Instead the movie was suppose to take place on LV 426 the moon. I believe he mentioned he did not change it because it was already set in stone(with budget im assuming). So Ridley Scott went from LV 426 being a moon, to then a planet, to then being called LV 223. Well considering if I have done the math correctly it seems to me that after making the movie ALIEN 33 years ago, Ridley would forget some things about when he made the film.

Playbite

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-14-2012 8:41 PMIf you guys want, I can go back to double check that.

avauntzero

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-16-2012 12:42 PMFor those saying "thats canon for me" and the like - stop fooling yourself lol! you do not get to choose what is canon. You can say you like it or dislike it or love it or loathe it...just don't call your opinion a fact.

avauntzero

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-16-2012 12:43 PM@Mr Tanker Lol I agree, a pred would own an engineer. Funny thing is, I'm 99% sure that the same actor played the main engineer and the predator =)

thegoodtimesguru

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-18-2012 11:29 PMIts all cannon until a new movie contradicts it.

N3cr0n0mIV

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-19-2012 7:23 AMThe whole Charles Bishop Weyland character in AVP was a retarded idea... because "Bishop II" in Alien 3 is, in fact, not a synthetic. In the extended cut, Lance Henricksen says he is not a droid, and there is no white blood. Unfortunately by leaving out this dialogue, it makes it difficult to tell if he is an android or not since the metal pipe seems to barely affect him. Maybe this was intentional in order to let the audience come to their own conclusion.

N3cr0n0mIV

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-19-2012 7:25 AMAlso I recall reading an interview somewhere online, where Ridley Scott acknowledged that Aliens is canon with his own film.

thegoodtimesguru

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-19-2012 11:21 PM@ N3cr0n0mIV, Have a link?

cuponator3000

ChestbursterMember839 XPNov-04-2012 6:56 PMaloen movies 1-4 are canon and the avps arent canon to anything. predatyor is seperate from alien. period.i secind genjitsu17's avp 3 thing. but it would probably be screwed up if they tried. also, i thought of the funniest thing, i was watching prometheus and the part where the group of people go to look for fifield and milburn, there is a shot of shaw looking around and there is a red light that looks like a predators beam as if u were looking at the mechanism on his shoulder. imagine if that turned out to be something lol

Not a map, an invitation

joeyjoe

OvomorphMember0 XPNov-05-2012 1:10 AM@playbite: while watching the blu ray, i never heard ridley say anything like what you stated he said in his D.C. (unless i am misunderstanding what it is you are trying to say). @cuponator: the little red lights are from the crew members suits/gear etc. Without doubt...no predators in this film.

skittles6969

OvomorphMember0 XPNov-07-2012 4:30 AMAs mentioned earlier in this thread, but overlooked, there is no record that Charles Bishop Weyland is Peter Weylands father. Could CB be his uncle instead? In avp Cb has no children does he? Maybe Peter Weyland lands some inheritance and creates his own corporation. Maybe his uncle and father are twins. That would open up some flashback doors with Peter and his father, and bring Lance Henrikson into the prometheous timeline, and another paycheck. LOL! Hands up if thats just made you moan! LOL!

CBT1979

OvomorphMember0 XPNov-07-2012 9:47 AMI think AVP would be good if it was sticking to the setting of the dark horse comics. 1. It should have taken place around the time of the Alien quadrology and not in the present time and definetly not on earth. 2. The first AVP was not gore enough for a movie that has Predators and Aliens. 3. While the Aliens exist in the Predator universe (Predator 2), I don't think that the Predators do in the ALIEN franchise.

katiel238

OvomorphMember1 XPNov-13-2012 6:51 PMbothh Ridley scott and James Cameron refused to touch the AVP series. its like combining frankenstien and chuckie and then inventing some half arsed story to link the two universes. atleast with Prometheus and Aliens the conection is consistant and if AVP was part of this universe the it would be Charles Weyland leading the expedition instead of Peter and charles cant be his father because he was a self taught engineer, it was peter weyland who founded the company. the first AVP happened in 2004 before Weylan industries was founded in 2012. because there are so many inconsitancies i think that it is not canon but a seperate series that borrows ideas off the Aliens franchise.

cuponator3000

ChestbursterMember839 XPDec-03-2012 7:43 PMthe thread called, Aliens: Colonial Marines to Prometheus? is revealing. my comments are worth looking at

Not a map, an invitation

ThatSM

OvomorphMember0 XPJan-21-2013 11:16 PM[quote]Were they (hill and giler) really involved with the project at all or did they just lend the production rights?[/quote] The last film Giler, Hill and Carroll had anything to do with was Alien3. And by that point it seems Brandywine had ceased to exist in any meaningful way. The film was originally credited as 'A Phoenix Company/ Gordon Carroll Production'. They've got some sort of contract where Alien related stuff ends up with their names on.

Anunnaki50

OvomorphMember1 XPMay-07-2013 12:21 AMNERDS!!!!!!!

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

Custodian

OvomorphMember0 XPMay-13-2013 1:03 AMCypher, I suspect you'll enjoy my new "if David Cronenberg had made Aliens" thread. :)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

mixZ

OvomorphMember0 XPJul-29-2013 7:46 PMi liked the story of avp

Ripley Clone 8

OvomorphMember0 XPSep-24-2013 4:12 PMHere's how I see it and Ridley Scott has said this multiple times. Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and Prometheus are Alien films. ALONE. They have NOTHING to do with Predator or any other lifeform or person. If thats the case and those films are based either on the origin of the Aliens or the Aliens themselves than Those 5 films ALONE are the Alien films and nothing else. Those 5 films are what make up the "Alien" franchise because they are soley based either on the origin of the Alien species/space jockey like Prometheus or they are based ONLY on the Alien themselves NOT anything out of that realm like the Predator films. The Predator franchise is its own thing because it is based solely on the Predators. Predator, Predator 2 and Predators make up the Predator franchise. I know there was an Alien skull in Predator 2 but that was NOT the focus of the film. The Predator itself was. The AVP films are based in a universe where BOTH the Aliens and the Predators clash. That story is its OWN universe because it focuses on A story that makes both species in a war. It has nothing to do with Ripley, It doesn't focus JUST on the Aliens so its not an ALIEN film. Its an AVP film. And Alien vs. Predator and Aliens vs. Predator Requiem are in their own universe.
http://i.imgur.com/vbAPQY6.gif

Necronom 4

NeomorphMember1566 XPNov-07-2013 4:40 PM@Gavin aka Snorkelbottom; You said and quote "@ necronom 4... - Ask Ridley - he doesn't own any rights, he is just a director, - Ask Dan O'Bannon - firstly, he's dead and secondly, he even suggested an idea that Predator was another stage of the Aliens lifecycle. - Ask "the bloke who created Predator" - Don't you mean blokes, as in plural... Jim & John Thomas. If Dan O Bannon said that i'll eat my socks and I don't wash them very often, so that's how serious I am!

The poster was good though!

 

The1PerfectOrganism

OvomorphMember0 XPNov-11-2013 12:25 PM"Here's how I see it and Ridley Scott has said this multiple times. Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and Prometheus are Alien films. ALONE. They have NOTHING to do with Predator or any other lifeform or person. If thats the case and those films are based either on the origin of the Aliens or the Aliens themselves than Those 5 films ALONE are the Alien films and nothing else. Those 5 films are what make up the "Alien" franchise because they are soley based either on the origin of the Alien species/space jockey like Prometheus or they are based ONLY on the Alien themselves NOT anything out of that realm like the Predator films. The Predator franchise is its own thing because it is based solely on the Predators. Predator, Predator 2 and Predators make up the Predator franchise. I know there was an Alien skull in Predator 2 but that was NOT the focus of the film. The Predator itself was. The AVP films are based in a universe where BOTH the Aliens and the Predators clash. That story is its OWN universe because it focuses on A story that makes both species in a war. It has nothing to do with Ripley, It doesn't focus JUST on the Aliens so its not an ALIEN film. Its an AVP film. And Alien vs. Predator and Aliens vs. Predator Requiem are in their own universe." This is correct although I may add that the AVP films are terrible, and therefore is not the "real" AVP the real AVP was, was the comics and books but they are beyond convoluted to the point of no-return. And so it is up to the AVP comic reboot to step up to the plate and make a good AVP-Verse.
Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility. I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPNov-11-2013 6:04 PMIts like i have said before, i had nothing against a AVP being Canon... If it was done right and by that the events of the movie should had been set after the events of at least Alien 3 and maybe Alien Resurrection. Pretty much the same as the AVP PC Games. If they rebooted it, then it could work..... I would like to think the current AVP franchise is more Canon to Predator and Predator 2 and Predators than Alien and Aliens etc. Purely down to Timeline of Events...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ghosty

OvomorphMember0 XPNov-18-2013 9:52 PMWhat we all need to realize here is that our opinions on the matter, whether we want the two franchises to be in the same universe or not is that, undeniably, they are. Even if AvP and AvP:R were both under par films for the legendary franchises, it and books, comics and games have happened and put both species together in the same canon. To refute against this by saying they are just 'what if' scenarios is to say that the movies, comics, games and etc. do not exist. They do and whether you like it or not that fact will not change.

At the first light of this Unrelenting Dawn, all will see the world for it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s entirety, not just it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s shadows.

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPNov-19-2013 1:53 PM

I certainly don't have the definitive answer as to what is canon! When I first heard about AVP I was really excited and looked forward to the merger. After seeing AVP I left the cinema totally deflated and disappointed, what a wasted opportunity!

I won't even bother to comment on Requiem!! *shudders*

What I do know is this; had the AVP movies been as good as ALIEN or Predator then we would all happily include or accept them as such. It's because they fell so short of the mark that most of us are totally reluctant to even consider them as canon! AVP reboot anyone? David Cronenberg at the helm? 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Add A Reply
Log in to Post
Enter Your E-Mail
Enter Your Password

Stay Logged In
Alien & Predator Alien & Predator Fandom
Hot Forum Topics
New Forum Topics
Highest Forum Ranks Unlocked
Thoughts_Dreams
Thoughts_Dreams
81% To Next Rank
Neomorph
Neomorph
Neomorph
74% To Next Rank
Chestburster
Tiwaz
Tiwaz
53% To Next Rank
Chestburster
Jonesy
Jonesy
78% To Next Rank
Facehugger
burbigo3
burbigo3
18% To Next Rank
Ovomorph
Latest Alien Fandom Activity

Alien: Covenant is a sequel to 2012's Prometheus as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about Alien: Covenant should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant, Prometheus and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

© 2022 Scified.com
Sign in with your E-Mail & Password


Log in to view your personalized notifications across Scified!

Alien Alien-Covenant.com
Godzilla Godzilla-Movies.com
Jurassic World JurassicWorld3.net
Aliens vs. Predator AliensVersusPredator.net
Predator Predator4-Movie.com
Latest Activity
Forums
Search Scified
Sci-Fi Movies