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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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Will the Deacon from Prometheus be in Alien: Covenant?

Will the Deacon from Prometheus be in Alien: Covenant?

One question many people keep asking is whether or not Alien: Covenant will address what happened to the Deacon on LV-223 following David and Shaw's departure in Prometheus. The Deacon refers to the Alien creature which birthed from the Engineer following his battle with Shaw's baby, the Trilobite.

Will the Deacon be in Alien: Covenant?

The simple answer to that question is no. However, the Deacon has not been forgotten entirely for the Prometheus sequel.

Alien: Covenant takes place on a very different world, far away from LV-223, the moon which housed the Engineer installations and which now houses the Deacon. Concept art from Prometheus shows the Deacon emerging from the crashed life boat where it was born and actively searching / investigating the surrounding landscape.

This of course takes place after David and Shaw have departed for Paradise, so there is no chance the Deacon managed to sneak aboard their ship prior to their departure.

What happened to the Deacon?

Ultimately, nobody knows. However, LV-223 is home to many more Engineer installations like the one the Prometheus crew discovered. These installations each house a Juggernaut ship and a payload of Black Goo and we can also assume that they contain similar storage caverns with biological materials, tombs, etc... 

The Deacon is likely incapable of using the Engineer technology, so it will essentially be stranded there until someone or something comes by and offers it a way off-planet.

We also don't know if any other Engineers survived in cryo-stasis in any of the surrounding installations. If any did, they could provide a viable host for the Deacon to use for procreation, assuming the Deacon is capable of egg-morphing like the Xenomorph.

Keep in mind as well, the Hammerpedes (mutated Black Goo worms) are still alive and well, too. How the two species will interact is unknown, but it is speculated that the Hammerpedes lack the ability to seed hosts like the Facehugger and so would not likely attempt to attack or impregnate the Deacon.

The Deacon has been acknowledged in Alien: Covenant's marketing

On the viral website AlienMovies.com, a MUTHUR interface has been constructed and allows fans to input questions to which MUTHUR may give a direct answer or come back with an error, unable to compute. Many of our members here have discovered quite a few interesting reaponses already.

Upon entering the code name Deacon, MUTHUR responds with a fairly detailed description of the Alien, but no information on its whereabouts or fate is displayed. 

In Scott's original Alien, MUTHUR represented the Nostromo's link with the Weylan corporation. If we are to treat the viral website interface the same as how it was represented on-film, it would suggest that Weyland-Yutani are in fact aware of the Deacon and have data records dedicated to its existence.

Will we ever see what happened to the Deacon?

Considering Ridley Scott and Fox have at least two more sequels to Prometheus planned, it is absolutely possible that the Deacon's fate will be explained at some point down the line. It is also possible that the Deacon plays a much larger role than we initially thought and is eventually discovered by another exploratory vessel in deep space. Surely Weyland-Yutani will wish to know what became of their Trillion-dollar space craft.

So, ultimately fans should not expect to see the Deacon in Alien: Covenant, but they shouldn't lose hope either. With a total of 4 films planned for this Prometheus saga, the liklihood of the Deacon's fate being explored is extremely high, if not on-film at least in written publications or comic books.

What's your best guess for what happened to the Deacon on LV-223? Let us know your theories in the comments section below!

If you're a fan of Alien / Prometheus and would like to discuss Alien: Covenant and its upcoming sequel with other like-minded fans, be sure to join in our forum! Ranked the #1 Prometheus forum back in 2012 and reigning as the web's top Alien: Covenant fan site, it's a great place to discuss the upcoming Prometheus sequels, dissect details from every trailer and engage with other fans just like you.

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96 Fan responses to Will the Deacon from Prometheus be in Alien: Covenant?

Facehuggers

Dec-31-2016 12:58 PM

Awesome post Chris, upvoted!

But I do believe that the Deacon's fate was already revealed in the comic PROMETHEUS: FIRE AND STONE, as a mass of biomechanical flesh overlooking the landscape.

 

Chris

Dec-31-2016 1:01 PM

Yeah, not entirely sure that's the exact fate of the creature haha so i suppose it remains unexplained for now.

Dark Nebula

Dec-31-2016 1:03 PM

"What happened to Deacon?"

Well according to fire and stone comics by dark horse comics,thats considered canon by fox,if im not mistaken Deacon became a mountain.

Still I dislike the idea of deacon becoming a mountain,I hope they explain his fate in future sequels

 

Facehuggers

Dec-31-2016 1:04 PM

 

///

tpbiv

Dec-31-2016 1:21 PM

The muthur website isn't really handing out any clues. All it does is give information straight from the "avp " wikia pages:

 

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Deacon

 

So, no real new info, just a neat marketing idea, using information already available in the web 

R.J.Macready

Dec-31-2016 1:43 PM

I am just wondering why deacon doesnt have any of the biomechanical marks on himself? Ingeneer was biomechanical but deacon not. Would be so logical to make of him biomech.like other xenomorps...

rumsmuggler

Dec-31-2016 2:23 PM

Maybe the engineers biomech suit wasn't hard encoded in it's DNA, so it didn't get picked up by the Deacon.

Chris

Dec-31-2016 3:48 PM

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Deacon becoming a mountain concept... lol

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 6:01 PM

Happy New year guys....

Maybe i can spend another 8 hour session on here like last night ;)

@Chris

I am not sure we would ever touch upon the Deacon again, it was just a Plot Device to showcase the link between the Black Goo and Xenomorph DNA.... i think many felt the Deacon was a let down... not Xeno enough.. never looked Scary (neither does the Neomorph newborn stage).... 

We need to remember the Deacon is a Mammal... would you be scared of a Puppy looking Wolf Pup? or a Lion Cub or a cute baby... that could then grow to a Mike Tyson, a Wolf or Lion.. So the Deacon Adult could be a horrific beast... logically its no Egg Layer... Logically it would have a rapid life cycle....

My theory was it would need a Host to get Genetic Material or Seed from then it would every 12-24 hours Birth a Hybrid Alien or even Hybrid Trillobite.

But i doubt it would be explored....

would LV-223 be explored?  Its a Plot Hole of sorts now... surely they wont ignore it... as why look for the Xeno when Lv-223 holds much more rewards.

The Deacon came about via a series of events...  I assume... a Female Womb and Eggs are required for the Deacon and so the chances of it happening in the future or past would depend on Females...

Once we have a Female (Ovaries, Eggs and Womb)

Then the way to it is one of the below...

*Infected Sperm with Black Goo... this means a infected Male has to reproduce with the Female..

*The top of the Ampoules contains a Parasite and its these that infect the Eggs.... (Holloway was just a way to transport these Parasites to Shaw).

The latter provides more potential for a re-occurrence or a past occurrence.

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 6:05 PM

i wont even go there with Fire and Stone...

Or indeed the 4Chan leak which is gathering more credit...

Who ever wrote both... is flawed..... maybe they should brought back Lindeloff... yeah i know... he is ambiguous but the guy has great ideas.... like Paglen too..

Where as Green is more generic like Spaights...  more suited to a straight forwards easy to read ideas like  a super hero movie.....

Blomkamp fits into this category too...

MAYBE FOX..... should just come and ask me for some advice lol.... I hope 4chan leak is BS for most part...  as well this movie could then if not.. be as basic as AVP2 yes... i mean that.. even Alien R seems more less generic..

But alas... Ridley Scotts comments and Wayne Haags interview gives me hope... and the Source too (if i am clutching at straws).

 

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 6:07 PM

Fire and Stone had some interesting ideas... i am sure some would hold ground.... but its also very flawed... that if Taken as Cannon leads to even more Plot holes and wasted oppuntinities

spirit_light_speed

Dec-31-2016 6:52 PM

I know that Fire and Stone was originally planned to introduce adult Deacons in the story framework. You can see them on the original AVP cover, here:

 

This was changed when the book hit store shelves... here we see those Deacons replaced by the Warrior Aliens we all know and love:

I get the sense that Fox pulled them from the Dark Horse series (with only the vague mountain reference), because it has plans for them (or at least the one) in Covenant. I don't think Fox wants to let the adult creature out of the bag until we all see how Ridley handles it first. 

What other reason would they have to remove it from the artwork? I'm open to your suggestions :)

Prediction... we see this thing stow away on the Juggernaut with Shaw and David, and then all hell breaks loose. Is Shaw turned into the egg? This crossed my mind when the trailer hit. Glad to see the thread (some of you folks have come to the same conclusion)! 

Now we wait!

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 7:33 PM

Nice catch... i do remember that original image.. also had artwork of a Human clutching a Engineer Urn.. with a Hive and maybe hints of Egg Morphs in back ground that was never used.

I think they changed to the Classic Aliens Xeno.. because well FOX thinks Xeno's is what sells.... which is why i think AC has changed so much from earlier clues and apparent course of action.

Maybe the Deacon would be explored in future... i do say if Fox wanted to keep it back for the movies... why would the Comics hint the Deacon Merged with the Temple?

I think the Neomorphs are similar to the Deacon though... i have looked at the one in the trailer in detail and seems to be close to the Deacon...  just white/grey with Two Spines on its back and a Tail.

A L I E N 4 2 6

Dec-31-2016 7:38 PM

BigDave, were you referring to the baby in the trailer? 

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 7:49 PM

I dont think we would see the Egg Morph or Deacon...

Maybe a Worm got on board?

We dont know yet where AC is going... i have a idea but i maybe should discount the Source and look at other clues as if i never heard nothing..

Then indeed something like this comes to my mind.

*David feels disappointed at how Mankind viewed and saw him, yet he saw himself as being superior.

*David discovers  in irony, that Mankinds creators are Mortal After all,  and also dont have much care for their own Creations...

*David sees the Engineers intended to destroy Mankind with a horrific Weapon... the Engineer also did not favor David too well.

*David is free... but feels unloved and wanted.. shunned by Man and Engineers... a Outcast... a Abomination yet he knows he is more superior to Man, and Mankinds Gods only had a Technologically advancement advantage.. and with the Engineers Gone... David now has access to their Technology and Tools that made them Godlike.

*He was very interested in the Technology of the Engineers and their Agenda and intentions for Mankind.

*But alas, as a head he could not do nothing.... he was now free and had all this knowledge and Tools.. but he cant used it while he is in the state he is..

*He needs Shaw to help put him back together... She needs him to get off that World.

*David is interested in the Black Goo and what it does, he did not get to see fully what would have happened as Shaw aborted her Child... and David did not get to see what became of it... he surely would have wanted to know what happened next.

*But Shaw makes  a deal with David... she wants to go to where the Engineers are from... and so David would not be able to take the Black Goo to Earth to study....

*David agrees... and once Shaw is in Cryo-sleep David can go where ever he wants...or do what he wants.. but logically. indeed going to the Engineers Homeworld he could get some of his own Answers..

*David would be cautious... he knows how a Engineer treated him before.. if he has any chance he would have to hatch a plan to Safeguard himself at the expensive of Shaw or Mankind.. and may plan to attempt a Covenant with the Engineers.

*Failing that he has a back up plan and Deterrent in the Black Goo.

IF THEY ARRIVE.... at Paradise and the Engineers are long gone.. or most of them are....  more so if they are all gone..

*Then Shaws Agenda for her answers would be a waste of time... No Engineers... No Answers... unless David can find out information from whats left behind....

*David would then be free to pursue his own Agenda.. If there is no-one to answer Shaws Questions... then David can then go about to get his own and his own interest and Agenda..

*If there are few Engineers and David feels its a risk to try and talk to them and that by killing them off... he can then wipe out any threat... while also be able to observe what the Black Goo does..

*He can then say to Shaw either the Engineers are already gone.. or they was hostile... but then David can say to Shaw he can find the answers from whats left behind without having to speak to a Engineer...

*This leaves David free to explain what ever way he wishes as far as Shaws Answers... he could find out the Truth.. or Nothing and make up something to Shaw or not tell her the Truth but only the Truth that suits Davids Agenda..

I feel if we look at Davids Logic.... the above would all fit.

 

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 7:57 PM

@A L I E N 4 2 6

Yes...

Its hard to make out..... and i cant post the photos that was requested to be taken down...

But the Organism seems similar to the Deacon.. only white/grey and its rear of the Head is not as long or pointed.. it has Two Spines and a Tail... it has long arms.

But the side of its head its similar to the Deacon.. so the Front may be similar to the Deacon.

it looks like a combination of other designs..

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 8:08 PM

Basically....

Your talking this... but lighter...

Smaller less pointed read of head... smaller more sharp spines.

Crossed with the Body Proportions of this... with smaller Tail.

Think of that and combine it.... and thats your Neomorphs

A L I E N 4 2 6

Dec-31-2016 8:11 PM

I remember that picture. But I thought there was a released picture of the adult Neomorph which is how #Belugamorphs started. That really looked nothing like the Deacon except for the pointed head. 

 

In any case I really hope we see the Deacon, and inevitably the adult Deacon someday on screen (assuming F&S and L&D aren't canon), as it seemed a nasty and potentially horrifying looking beast. Maybe in a future sequel we will see an engineer flashback showing the Deacon outbreak in assuming it was deacons, as we are getting female Engineers introduced in AC, I can only assume there were females on 223 as well. Maybe engineers lost ability to reproduce, tried to use black goo to get the ability back, did....well, ya know....to the women, they birthed trilobites....

 

Deacon outbreak 

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 8:13 PM

Combine that last Alien 3 runner... with this Prometheus concept

Make it same colour as the Engineers Skin..

Add Two Spines and Tail... well basically combine the above with the last image in last post... make it Engineer Skin Grey then add spines and then a Face/Mouth like this

And this is what the Neomorph looks like..

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 8:17 PM

Yes there was that concept work.. leaked Davids Workshop LOL

And then another leak few weeks after...

I cant re-post images in case they get requested to be taken down.

If you take the Body of the Baby-Head one, crossed with smaller one next to it with the tail...

Add the head of the one thats facing the back to you... with the Deacon like Head... and it also has Spines..

This is what we are getting....  this is based on seeing those leaked photos and then comparing to the Trailer...

A L I E N 4 2 6

Dec-31-2016 8:22 PM

So we can assume that head goes through some serious growth into adulthood. I also hear it's similar to the early white Deacon concepts, and the crucifix pose "Ultramorph" 

 

EDIT: when it comes right down to it, it's basically a white Deacon with spikes and a tail 

BigDave

Dec-31-2016 8:26 PM

Tried to enhance detail a bit...

 The one leaked Photo that came out with the other Temple Shots and Covenant Hanger showed the Neomorph at Chest Buster Stage..

This above is a latter Stage.. if we assume a Human Child say 4-5 year old stage... and so fully Adult i assume it would look more menacing...

A L I E N 4 2 6

Dec-31-2016 9:44 PM

Oh I love how it just looks at the camera 

ripley05

Jan-01-2017 8:21 AM

Not sure how the deacon could survive on lv-223 without food for very long. Considering the weyland and yutani merger didn't happen over night I can't see another vessel getting there before it dies. Like BigDave said it's either a plot device or it did make it aboard the ship Shaw and David were on. 

A L I E N 4 2 6

Jan-01-2017 9:30 AM

It would justify its appearance in Prometheus if it was the reason that the ship crashes. Maybe it's one of the way that Prometheus will be "uplifted" 

Deep Space

Jan-01-2017 10:21 AM

Hmmm . . . an interesting one!  

I'd say it's either still on LV223 awaiting further human contact, which we may see yet in the franchise - ALIEN 5 perhaps?

Or it stowed away with S&D and we may yet see it in AC (this seems unlikely but possible nonetheless)

Last option is it died on LV223 but I have a feeling these creatures can last for a long time by human standards

The whole business on LV223 needs tidying up imo as it is inconceivable that WY wont have sent another ship or investigated the disappearance of a billion $ ship and the great Peter Weyland and his principle heir and primary creation, David 8 - unless the info. has been sent to them already . . .

That they looked at LV426 in ALIEN rather than LV223 (which by galactic terms are neighbours - nay, in the same house!) is telling, unless it's not been thought through - which I'd doubt.  That implies WY knew nothing of LV223, which seems unlikely, or they knew nothing of import was left on LV223 . . . It could also be that they were afraid to go down there but as the crew were expendable I doubt this!

Perhaps Alien 5 or the AC follow up film can address this.

MonsterZero

Jan-01-2017 12:10 PM

I could see the Deacon still living on LV223 , 'munching' on worms or Hammerpedes for it's food...growing larger and ever more mutated. a steady black goo diet! Yum! Just waiting for a lift off this rock....should watch it's weight, if it expects to fit in a conduit or a small jump ship!

Did Shaw use Engineer tech to repair David?

Wrenchpede

Jan-01-2017 12:28 PM

There is a second entry for the Deacon in MUTHUR if you type "LAWRENCE OF ARABIA":

---

I'll rather leave the Deacon alone than make it generic. Don't make it a "proto-xenomorph", don't turn it into an Alien Queen, instead embrace its potential or at least let it be mysterious. Even the mountain from Fire and Stone is a better fate than the above imo. Though personally, given its human-like hands, I like to think it can learn to manipulate human technology rather well...

sosse

Jan-01-2017 2:39 PM

I would love to see more about the Deacon...did it stay on LV223 and if so, did it explore the Engineer Temple...in my fantasy it would give up on that after a while and crawl in a corner and maybe slowly mutate into an egg.

and I wonder if it's more intelligent than say the Alien from the 1979 movie.  In the movie it doesn't, but the concept art suggests maybe it is...but maybe that's just my interpretation

 

and as for the enhanced three part photo BigDave posted...I can see there is something (I stared at it and stared at it, I wanna see it !), but I just can't make it out - I will have to wait for the movie

Stan Winston (deceased)

Jan-01-2017 6:52 PM

Any takers for...

Deacon One: A Prometheus Story

...no, me neither.

BigDave

Jan-01-2017 7:04 PM

LOL

I would take that up ;)

Actually my P2 draft i was considering it but decided to leave it alone and was other further horrors that would have been discovered..... but had a few stumbling blocks as far as how things connect to Engineers Agenda...   showing like Prometheus did .. what the Black Goo can do is easy..

Trying to cover the things linked to it that people was maybe hopping Prometheus 2 would have.. was tough...

BigDave

Jan-01-2017 7:41 PM

The Deacon could have been interesting but it was just a Plot Device..  it would be interesting to see where they could have gone with this....  Here is a run down where Logically it could have Evolved..

*Deacon is a Hybrid.... it is Born from a Engineer Host (similar DNA to Mankind) via a Hybrid Human/Xeno Black Goo DNA...  Therefor its would be a 50-75% Human/Mammal DNA Hybrid this is why we see.

a) A Placenta.

b) Human like Fingers and Toes.

c) Enamel Teeth (not Metallic).

d) Seems to have fully formed features so its just a smaller version of Adult Stage... unlike the Xenomorph that changes as it grows from having no real Legs, Arms or Dorsal Protuberant Appendages to the Adult Stage Having them.

*Xenomorph Traits the Deacon has some Xenomorph traits and DNA  it has...

a) An Elongated Head thats more pointed. 

b) No Eyes.

c) A kind of Pharyngeal Jaw (different to the Xenomorph)

Human/Mammal Traits we can only Logically Speculate about.

*Likelihood it would be similar as far as conception/reproduction where it would not be a Egg Layer but would have Eggs that are incubated that evolve to Embryos and then Born as fully developed Organisms.  Maybe how it would Fertilize those Eggs could be given a more Alien Twist.

Maybe the Baby-Stage is a Trilobite Hybrid?

*It would maybe grow to the same % that a Human/Mammal New Born to Adult would do.... which would make the likelihood of the Adult being about 13-18ft tall.  (But if based on Human Growth and Averages.. then the Deacon would grow to 15ft approx).

Unlikely Human/Mammal Traits we can only Logically Speculate about.

*Speech and Cognitive abilities of a Human.

*Nurture and caring for the Offspring, which could include feeding (Milk).

Although social interactions and some degree of care of young we see in some Mammals could be explored.

Xenomorph Traits we can only Logically Speculate about.

*Rapid Growth and Life Cycle... so a Deacon would likely grow to Adult form in Days.. if not 12-24 hours. But certainly not Years... and the same would be when the Deacon Procreates.. if we assume it carries a Embryo and not lays Eggs. Its logical to assume the Deacon Offspring would develop and be born within a short period of time.. equal to Xeno Embryo Gestation but certainly not vastly longer so again 12-24 hours.

*Similar communication between themselves but can this work with other Xenomorph based lifeforms.. or even communicate via a alternative path/sense with Humans?

*Acid Blood, maybe this defensive mechanism trait is carried over or maybe its not.. this ones a 50/50.

Unlikely Xenomorph Traits we can only Logically Speculate about.

*Ability to create Hives/Secret Resin Material...  again this is a less than 50/50 because we dont know yet 100% how the Xenomorph does this..

*Growth of a Tail, and Dorsal Tube like Appendages... we have to assume its Growth would be more like a Mammal.

The above.... is my study of the Deacon its DNA Ancestry and how it could implicate how the Organism would go onto to grow and behave... 

I think it would have to have a very Xeno like way to procreate that requires Sacrifice, as far as how it would Fertilize its Eggs.. But then we dont yet know how a Queen does this and so the Deacon could just grow a Baby and Birth one every 12-24 hours.

But having the need for a Host would make it more Alien and Horrific... even if thats as far as it needing Genetic Material or Seed so to speak LOL.... Doubt it would be as pleasant as Sil/Eve from Species.

BigDave

Jan-01-2017 7:49 PM

"I would love to see more about the Deacon...did it stay on LV223 and if so"

Maybe i could be wrong... we shall see.. but i think unfortunately we wont be seeing the Deacon in the movie at all....... Period...

Not the one from LV-223 that is...

But it cant be ruled out to be re-created...  especially of it was not Holloways Infected Sperm... but merely the Goo on Davids Finger from the Top half of the Ampoule contained Nano-worm like Organisms that merely transmitted from Holloway to Shaw just as a STD would.

All David would need to do then is get more of this Goo, and somehow pass it into her Womb, and the result would be the same... as far as Trilobite goes..

Or if she already has more of these Nano-worms (or in this case maybe infected Sperm) inside her and they do-not die out for days and so after giving Birth to the Trilobite, she could now be infected again.

More Good News.... and brings my Hijack with the Neomorph into context with this thread...

If the Neomorphs are the result of Mutated Spores that evolved from the Black Goo, be that David bringing it or a past exposure...  If the Evolution by Contaminant in Question is the same as those found in the Temple Explored on LV-223 so they came from the Organism in the Mural or under the right circumstances could produce it..

Then our Neomorphs would be more related to the Deacon than the Xenomorph.

 

BigDave

Jan-01-2017 9:58 PM

Here is a Gif of the Neomorph

it will make it clearer to spot...

http://s27.postimg.org/5hupkvflv/Neomorph.gif

 

sosse

Jan-02-2017 12:36 AM

thanks BigDave !

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-02-2017 3:14 AM

The Deacon was interesting in the way that it was the closest to the Xeno that we got in Prometheus. I viewed the movie with the state of mind as to trying to figure out how it came to be. Having the Deacon in it was a good thing because it made the Xeno connection clearer but I wish that they had made the Xeno connection stronger.

 

As for having it in AC I don’t think that it is necessary if they already will have stronger connections to the original monster the way it is already. I still wonder how it will be able to survive on LV-223 but that is not a reason to return to that planet.

MonsterZero

Jan-02-2017 7:53 AM

As BigDave and others have pointed out...LV223 is a major plot hole. It really needs to be filled. Juggernauts and cannisters of goo just laying around....The military would have exploited this and would have zero need for LV426. Peter Weyland and his daughter died on LV223. The company is going to want to find out what happened.

Chris

Jan-02-2017 8:24 AM

Love that GIF BigDave, thank you!

BigDave

Jan-02-2017 3:05 PM

I found it on internet, not my work.. credit has to go to someone on AVPGalaxy as it directed to there.

@Thoughts_Dreams

The Deacon does leave us to wander... we have never had any official information on the Xenomorph as far as Life Expectancy maybe SM has some?

But it appears the Life-Cycle is as follows roughly.

*Eggs can remain dormant for a very long time maybe thousands of years (is that naturally or due to the Blue Myst in the Cargo Hold?)

*Face Hugger Life Span is up-to 5 days before it will die.

*Embryo Gestation seems to be 12-24 hours

*Chest Buster grows to Adult in about 12-24 hours

*Adult Xenomorph (include Queens) unknown but if the Queen is similar to a Ant/Termite it would live for much longer than the other Xenomorphs...

How is this relevant to the Deacon?

We dont know the life span of a Deacon or what it would require for nutrition to survive...   If we know how long a Xenomorph can live for we may have some idea....  But bare in mind it also had Human DNA at Face Huger Stage and also it was Gestated inside a Engineer and maybe they can live for a long long time.

So we dont know if the Xeno was a designed and manufactured Bio-Weapon or it is the Perfect Result of a Bio-Weapon if this is the case then it would have some kind of Half/Life to it or the Engineers would have created something to neutralize the Xenomorph once its done its job....  as if the Xeno is how Aliens showed a able to procreate and create a Hive etc...   Then as a Weapon its Flawed... it would be just like us cloning Velociraptors then unleash them say in Africa and watch them wipe out the Wild Life and Procreate.. you would then be left with dealing with the Velociraptors

So its anyone's guess as to if the Deacon could be alive for any amount of years... or if there are means it can Procreate with whats available on LV-223 or even if it can Produce on its own Asexually.

Lot of IF's and BUT's    that we dont have answer too and fund to speculate... it would be nice if they release a File or include in the future reference books more information.

But i think any future books and SM would have more of a idea, would be made in a way that its based off officially company reports... and so if in Canon the Company or anyone associated never see the Deacon again to Study... then we simply may not get that information.

And so the Deacon would forever be a Mystery that we can speculate about....

Although Fire and Stone indicates it Merged and Became part of the Mountain... i think this is the Comic Book Producers interpretation of what the Mural was showing...

S.M

Jan-02-2017 3:16 PM

"As BigDave and others have pointed out...LV223 is a major plot hole. It really needs to be filled. Juggernauts and cannisters of goo just laying around....The military would have exploited this and would have zero need for LV426. Peter Weyland and his daughter died on LV223. The company is going to want to find out what happened."

Their destination was classified.  It's not a plot hole, but could possibly be a loose thread.

 

"The Deacon does leave us to wander... we have never had any official information on the Xenomorph as far as Life Expectancy maybe SM has some?"

There's nothing definative.  If you take the comics into account and believe the Deacon grows into the mountain in Fire & Stone, the Deacon can live at least 125 years.

As for Aliens - again it depends.  The Hadley creatures could have been up tot 5 weeks old.  Some creatures on Bouvetoya could've been 100 years old.

MonsterZero

Jan-02-2017 5:16 PM

"Their destination was classified.  It's not a plot hole, but could possibly be a loose thread."

 

Yeah...it's more a loose thread. But....

 

I wonder if the Prometheus was insured?(old man probably ate the co$t) Or if any of the crew had policies. Can't imagine such a loss could be swept under the rug. The families of the Prometheus crew should at least ask some questions.

Of course David 8 may have sent false reports to Earth.............."LV223 is lifeless and a dead end...returning to Earth..."

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-02-2017 5:29 PM

SPOILER ALERT

According to a stan winstons source this is correct,i made thread waiting approval 

David leads the survivors back to the Engineers' derelict citadel, where he's been living ever since. Walter mistrusts David, who is not behaving in accordance with their programming, and finds out that David in fact murdered Shaw. David's mind has been warped by the numerous modifications that his creator, Peter Weyland (Guy Pearce), made to his programming during the Prometheus's expedition, and is obsessed with creating the "perfect organism". He exposed numerous lifeforms on Paradise, including Shaw, to the black ooze and, after numerous failed attempts, has created an alien egg, which produces a facehugger that latches itself to Archer, leading to the birth of a Primal Xenomorph.

Daniels and Tennessee realize David is controlling the Neomorphs and escape back to the Covenant with Walter in order to leave Paradise. Together, Daniels and Tennessee manage to kill the Primal Xenomorph and the Neomorphs and detonate explosives to destroy David's laboratory, with David himself apparently perishing in the explosion.

After escaping, Daniels and Tennessee place themselves back in hypersleep to continue their voyage to the colony, unaware that David has killed Walter and stolen his identity to leave Paradise. David secretly plants two alien egg embryos among the human frozen embryos that the Covenant is transporting to proceed to the next phase of his experiment.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-02-2017 5:29 PM

SPOILER ALERT

 

The spaceship Covenant is transporting frozen embryos to a human colony on a faraway planet when they receive a distress signal from Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace), from the Prometheus expedition, which disappeared 10 years prior. The crew is brought out of hypersleep to answer to the signal, which leads to the death of the Covenant's captain, Branson (James Franco). His wife, Daniels (Katherine Waterson), is deeply affected by the accident, while Branson's first officer Archer (Billy Crudup) is made captain. The Covenant is piloted by Daniels's friend Tennessee (Danny McBride) and the crew is aided by an android, Walter (Michael Fassbender).

The Covenant follows Shaw's signal to Paradise, an uncharted forest planet and homeworld of the Engineers, the ancient extraterrestrials that seeded life on Earth and then sought to the destroy it. The Engineers' secret weapon, the black ooze, has spread through Paradise, turning it into a wasteland. The Covenant's crew ventures outside their ship and some of its members are exposed to spores released by plants infected by the ooze. It is determined they've contracted an alien pathogen and Archer has them quarantined aboard the Covenant.

Monstrous creatures known as "Neomorphs" burst from the infected crewmen's bodies and begin slaughtering the crew, forcing the survivors to flee into the forest, where they are rescued from the Neomorphs by David (Michael Fassbender), the sole survivor of the Prometheus crew. He reveals that Shaw sacrificed herself to crash a spaceship against Paradise's surface, exposing the Engineers to the black ooze to prevent them from destroying Earth, leaving him stranded on Paradise

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-02-2017 5:29 PM

SPOILER alert above

Apex_Predator

Jan-02-2017 6:17 PM

 

 

If Shaw did crashed the ship then the Engineers are not as superior as I thought. How can they not know a ship is coming their way and full of black goo.

In other words they got wiped out way too easily.

BigDave

Jan-02-2017 6:37 PM

"Their destination was classified.  It's not a plot hole, but could possibly be a loose thread."

Indeed SM... i think i sometimes confuse Plot Hole... as a oversight or loose end/thread as you put... but yeah thats what i mean..

It could be something we are just never to be told...

If Fire and Stone is Cannon.... then indeed as you said, it opens up that possibility of the Deacon living for hundreds of years..   i dont like the Mountain Merger part and i still think Fire and Stone and especially a Deacon that has been there for over 100 years, as well as other things..  really Bums... the Franchise

As far as why they never go back to LV-223

Until the movies touch upon it... then it becomes a personal choice of Canon..

Were we have to accept its a oversight (much like we never saw David and Shaw find the Juggernaught in Prometheus to escape) and we may never see it explored or answered as far as LV-223

Or we have to accept Fire and Stone..

Once again thanks for the insight SM

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-02-2017 7:01 PM

apex predator.

 

the engineers in the planet of covenant are the low hierarchy ones. the ones that renounced technology.they are the religious ones..primitive indigenous..thats what Paradise is on the planet.

 

the bad and powerfull ones are not what the covenant will touch upon..david doesnt wipe out the real deal.

the next sequels will cover them and this superior race has to be the main villain i get from this the true perfect organism wich the black ooze was originated from is not the xeno..its something else we will worship more then the cllassic xeno.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-02-2017 7:01 PM

apex predator.

if the leak draft is real wich im positive..david will have a hangar of proto xenos..he might be able to experiment on them or control them if this neomorph control is spot on..he might be aable to control and infuse the mech parts on them with his own dna..the sequel will show us history of this superior race space jockeys...and war between them and david..so we could reach the alien one and tie it up..the third movie would reveal where the black goo came from..and would tie all the loose ends..lv 223...and above.

alien 5 would introduce the alien control appliccation according to the concepts..and the introduction to engineer technology of the superior race .

 

in my book this ties up a lotta things..if the draft is real its gonna be spot on 

S.M

Jan-02-2017 9:37 PM

"Once again thanks for the insight SM"

You're very welcome.

Deep Space

Jan-03-2017 9:29 AM

@SM & BD:  Loose thread, plot-hole, call it what you will but the knowledge or lack of knowledge of LV223 is of massive significance and import, not just to AC (potentially) but to all the following (chronologically) films, imo.

I find it inconceivable that given who and what was at stake on that mission, classified or otherwise, no-one would have followed it up?  Well, it's possible but that then leads to more questions . . .

What we have seen happen after, in ALIEN for example, suggests that WY knew something - up to now we can only assume that knowledge came from the Prometheus mission, or a derivative of it (AC?)  They knew about the ALIEN and I'd guess the eggs, right?  How?  Up to now only LV223 could offer clues about them, so how did they get this info?  If they/WY went to LV223 then wtf happened, as subsequent attempts to 'study' the xeno have all been away from LV223 - It's never mentioned - so either all xeno/goo traces have been destroyed or ?

I'm happy to suspend disbelief but not at the cost of the integrity of the universe in question.  

I don't mean to get nit-picky with you guys personally, but I would feel majorly let down, in a story telling context, if this is not explained further or at least hinted at . . .

S.M

Jan-03-2017 2:22 PM

"I find it inconceivable that given who and what was at stake on that mission, classified or otherwise, no-one would have followed it up?"

They did in the Fire & Stone comics.  It was intended that the Geryon mission would happen much earlier than it ultimately did, but it was changed during production so as not to butt up against what was being planned with the Prometheus sequel (despite being set in 2219, the space suits and other equipment are very much of the Prometheus 2093 look).

"They knew about the ALIEN and I'd guess the eggs, right?  "

There's nothing to suggest they knew specifically about the Alien.

Since the destination was classified, it's quite possible there was no follow up or rescue mission launched.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-03-2017 3:05 PM

For me lv 223 must be explained in the next movies after covenant.

 

 

Lv 223 to me was their military base. Where they studied and stored the black goo to load their ships and destroy life in planets. The unique deacon was left there aswell as other bases around the planet. The hologram show us a outbreak that destroyed them. The deacon cant be a plot device to show us what the goo does to engineers. For me the mural shows a deacon and that creature is praised by them. So we must return to that planet to explain a lot of things prometheus left in the air.also that engineer is the space jockey race..they are the same aesthetically..when he sits on that chair it shows.

The ones we will see in covenant dont seem this ones..but a rather primitive version elderly.

 

Maybe we have the race who seeds life and the other who destroys it.

S.M

Jan-03-2017 3:14 PM

Have we had a decent look at any of the ones from Covenant yet?

Wrenchpede

Jan-03-2017 3:39 PM

I just hope they never explain how LV-426 or the original aliens came to be. The aliens are supposed to be mysteryous, because not knowing is scary; so learning their origin will only make them less scary.

I thought that was the point of Prometheus, the black goo and the Deacon: To have something related to Alien but not too much.

Stan Winston (deceased)

Jan-03-2017 5:01 PM

Quite frankly, nobody knows what the point of Prometheus was, not even Sir Ridley Scott. It was an Alien prequel. Then it wasn't. Was again. Wasn't. And finally no one can say for definite.

I sense there are three fan factions:

1) those convincing themselves it is a direct forebear of Alien, and therefore is canon with a capital 'C'.

B) those convincing themselves it is completely unrelated to Alien, and merely reusing studio-owned props to get bums-on-seats.

iii) those who couldn't care less whether it was or wasn't connected to Alien -- they just enjoyed the film for what it is.

I'm currently part of the second camp, but Alien: Covenant will no doubt throw everything up in the air again, and we will all have to assess where we stand. I look forward to it!

S.M

Jan-03-2017 5:14 PM

It's number 1.

Deep Space

Jan-04-2017 2:54 AM

@SM - I haven't read the comics so have to base it on what happens in the films.

I think there are some pretty big clues that do more than suggest WY knew at least something about the alien and or eggs.  Firstly, the clause in contract re alien contact.  Could be standard I know, but it raises a doubt.  Then we have Ash's orders, his studies of the facehugger, his comments about the organism, the clause in Dallas's contract about Science officer having final decision, Ashs' general behaviour, such as disobeying commanding officer Ripley's order about quarantine fail safes - which from the get go leaves the viewer thinking he knows more than he lets on.  (I re-watched ALIEN the other day and that is definitely the vibe I get).  And the cherry on top is Special Order 937.

"Priority one
Insure return of organism for analysis.
All other considerations secondary.
Crew expendable.
"

That in and of itself is 'proof' that WY knew about an organism of some kind and suggests that they had some knowledge of what it was and were clearly very keen on acquiring a sample.

I agree it's possible they may not have followed the mission but think it highly unlikely; given space faring and colonisation by WY is huge (I'm using WY viral site as info. here) at this time.  I just don't buy the idea that no-one at the company knew where they were going.  And if they did, that no-one (Nostromo for e.g.) passing nearby was asked to check it out.  Again, if it was Joe Bloggs and whoever on a routine mission, using standard tech, I could buy it, just about; but not when it's Peter Weyland, his heir and some pretty groundbreaking new tech that is surely going to make $$$ ...

Look how they reacted in ALIENS to Ripley's destruction of the Nostromo ...

So it comes back to the question 'How did they know?' for me.  Which as it stands screams knowledge of LV223.

One of the most horrifying aspects of ALIEN was the knowledge that the crew were effectively pawns and the company were more than happy to seal their fate for a specimen.  Talk about being left high and dry!  The fact that the robot on board (which was also secret from the crew) was clearly programmed to assist in this agenda only added to the horror.  Part of what appeals to me about this whole franchise is getting to the bottom of this.  The hows and the whys.  WY have always been hell bent on acquiring a sample - so why not visit LV223?  If they don't know about it then where do they get their info. from?

"You still don't know what you're dealing with . . . the perfect organism"  He never studied the Xeno (which is what he is referring to) so how did he com to this conclusion unless he had prior knowledge?  Where did that come from if not events on LV223 or subsequent events like in AC?   It needs tying up!

What I will say is that perhaps events in the next film(s) may shed some light on this and may be one of the ways in which RS ties the prequels into ALIEN.  It can't just be left open for me . . .

BigDave

Jan-04-2017 9:14 AM

Indeed... the Franchise is good to watch.... but as far as making any coherent connections  its a complete and utter Mess... and they keep changing the back story to a degree... that they just need to settle on a Answer... Maybe they have in their minds.. but they wont show us..

AVP Canon History is now less of a Mess... be easier to just scrap the Alien Franchise as a Write Off... and follow on with the AVP one lol

Then however the Predators with Ancient Man is a tricky one... but they are not shown to have created us... and this is ultimately why the ALIEN Franchise is in a mess..

In Hindsight... if the Space Jockey was a Alien Race in some Ancient War... with a Ancient unknown Foe.... they would not have BACKED THEMSELVES into a Corner...

Now they went the route of Prometheus and Alien Covenant.. it opens up Loop Holes if thats the right word?   Basically i does give us more history to Humans having a previous history with the Xenomorph and related Experiments.

Nevermind also the Engineers behind them...

 

BigDave

Jan-04-2017 9:18 AM

Dont get me wrong....

Very Bold and interesting Plot.... one that has Massive Scope... Scope so HUGE... that the Xenomorph is just as small a part potentially as Gunpowder is to Mankind...

I think they just opened a can of worms.. because of how hard it is to get this Plot Right.... and when a  lot of Fans wanted to know more about the Xenomorph and Space Jockey event rather than those behind those events The Engineers, there Genetic Experiments in relation to the Xeno and the whole creation story.....  which can expand to simply not a Race who Created just Mankind on Earth and the Xeno...

I think they needed to be careful... but they just dont know how to tackle this plot..

I dont blame them... i pretty good and putting forward great ideas and Plots..... but i found such things a Sticky Situation to get just right.

Deep Space

Jan-04-2017 10:39 AM

Yes, BD! :) I totally agree, an awesome plot potential that has been muddied somewhat - or at least has created more loose ends and questions.  Almost a consequence of its own brilliance ...

Still, they may pull this off yet but I think that going down the 'glossing over' certain elements might be the only way they can do it and keep the whole thing coherent.

That would be a shame, imo, but hey, they 'aint making this film just for me ;) 

Neomorph

Jan-04-2017 10:52 AM

I hate to say it but I believe the Deacon was simply a brief plot device to demonstrate the diverse morphing cycle and in that process vaguely tie it to the first Alien way before Covenant was conceived. This time with new writers reigniting the story and thereby possibly thrashing the Deacon due to the apparent conclusive wrap-up of LV-223.

This also leads me to believe that the Deacon was a simple case of fanservice.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-04-2017 3:19 PM

The deacon wasnt a plot device, the deacon is the most unique creation we got till now.it came from a series of unique events that will never be replicated again or very very hardly. They could takle the fan service a lot of ways but they didnt . The deacon creation was a story told from the second act till the end. The deacon is the creature in the mural.

Lot of questions were left in the air in lv 223. The deacon was left there. The knowledge weyland yutani have of the alien in Alien cannot be from lv 223 otherwise they would have acess to the millions of ampoulles of black goo .they know the existence of the alien life but not the rest. Wich to me means that lv 223 is gonna be revisited and completly destroyed.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-04-2017 3:19 PM

The deacon wasnt a plot device, the deacon is the most unique creation we got till now.it came from a series of unique events that will never be replicated again or very very hardly. They could takle the fan service a lot of ways but they didnt . The deacon creation was a story told from the second act till the end. The deacon is the creature in the mural.

Lot of questions were left in the air in lv 223. The deacon was left there. The knowledge weyland yutani have of the alien in Alien cannot be from lv 223 otherwise they would have acess to the millions of ampoulles of black goo .they know the existence of the alien life but not the rest. Wich to me means that lv 223 is gonna be revisited and completly destroyed.

S.M

Jan-04-2017 4:43 PM

"That in and of itself is 'proof' that WY knew about an organism of some kind and suggests that they had some knowledge of what it was and were clearly very keen on acquiring a sample."

This is the sum total of what the Company knew when it had the Nostromo re-routed.  Ash doesn't display any particular foreknowledge about the Alien whatsoever.

"Look how they reacted in ALIENS to Ripley's destruction of the Nostromo ..."

Look how they did nothing about exploiting the Alien for 57 years. And in the meantime partnered up with the ECA which would cut into their profits when they did decide that they wanted to get around to exploiting the Alien.

""You still don't know what you're dealing with . . . the perfect organism"  He never studied the Xeno (which is what he is referring to) so how did he com to this conclusion unless he had prior knowledge? "

If you take in the full context of what Ash is saying, he's talking about its adaptability and sheer will to live at the expense of everything around it if need be. "A survivor" "Structural perfection", "Purity", "unclouded by conscience". In that regard Ash is correct. None of it points to Ash or anyone knowing about it before hand.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-04-2017 7:17 PM

Just the protocol points it. About securing the life form and blablabla.they do know about the specimen but if they know what happened in lv223 and lv 426 we will see..otherwise i will be pissed.

Neomorph

Jan-04-2017 11:40 PM

Stan Winston (deceased)

Regarding Prometheus, exactly, because there's nothing to explain really. The film is actually pretty simple despite trying to be "clever" and "layered". Most critics agree about the underwhelming script aspect no matter how good the final score was.

The film only goes as deep as you want it to, and that can be said about most if not all films. 

Deep Space

Jan-05-2017 3:08 AM

@SM - I like this :)  

Ash doesn't display any particular foreknowledge about the Alien whatsoever.

I'd say he does.  There are subtle looks, gestures, and not wanting Ripley to go out after them, and then breaking protocol to let them back on the ship.  I think you could argue he didn't but that's how it seems to me.  I've always had that impression since first watching the film and it gets more cemented every time.  I suppose you could argue I see what I want to see but combined with what happens later in the film . . . he knew alright ;)

 Look how they did nothing about exploiting the Alien for 57 years

I agree this is odd.  It doesn't make much sense unless they knew nothing.  Which then confuses me further as they obviously did know something re SO937.  I always suspected some form of shady dealings and unknown plans that were hidden deep within the hierarchy - AI perhaps - that were pulling the strings as far as the xeno goes.  It's the only thing that can make sense of it to me.

Burke says he 'made a bad call' - where did he get the knowledge from?  The whole thing creams WY conspiracy or it makes no logical sense to me (I see Burke as a willing pawn in this scenario).  WY is no fortune 500 company and they (big wigs) in ALIENS seemed totally oblivious to the SO937 and xeno in the debrief meeting and Nostromo case.  As we know though, someone somewhere did ...

If you take in the full context of what Ash is saying, he's talking about its adaptability and sheer will to live at the expense of everything around it if need be. "A survivor" "Structural perfection", "Purity", "unclouded by conscience". In that regard Ash is correct. None of it points to Ash or anyone knowing about it before hand.

I have to disagree.  I can see why you say that but he has the facehugger to study in quite a lot of detail once removed from host.  He then observes the xeno from afar after seeing it 'born'.  From what I see in the film he is either a very very good scientist who can make giant leaps and connections or he has at least some prior knowledge with which to base his conclusions on.  Actually they aren't conclusions - he states his 'findings' as fact.  Almost taunting the crew with the xeno's abilities/nature.  Also, he clearly doesn't want Ripley to see much of what he is doing re. study of the FH (he switches monitor off and is hardly forthcoming with his findings at first - again its debatable but that to me is there to let the audience suspect he knows more than he's letting on)  Again, I see you're point and I think one can argue both sides to some extent but for me Ash at the very least had some idea what he was dealing with and/or expected to find.  It seems to me like his studies simply confirm this.

Even if Ash knew nothing.  WY did.  How?  The point I was making earlier was that they got that info. regardless of how detailed.  Where did it come from?

From what we know it is either LV223 or events that followed from it.  You could say finding the beacon was chance, which I'd go with but then SO937 proves that they had prior knowledge.  It bugs me, obviously ;), and while I'm all for elements of mystery this is something that is too significant to the whole story to just gloss over.  Even more so after the events in Prometheus. 

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-05-2017 3:26 AM

Exactly what @Deep Space said.

After prometheus theres things that cant be even considered..because they clash with each other.

I also find it logical and almost the only way that explains lots of things. The AI is behing of everything from alien forward but till alien something led to that. My hopes rest with david. Hes the key for everything to have logic in my head

Deep Space

Jan-05-2017 3:54 AM

@Tiago

I always felt AI was pulling the strings.  In fact, what makes the ALIEN universe so appealing to me is that subtle but real threat that comes from them and that someone somewhere is sending out orders, crew and synthetics in an attempt to obtain the xeno.

It's what makes the threat, especially in ALIEN, even more real and doubly scary.  It adds to the claustrophobic and trapped feeling given off in ALIEN i.e they're up against the ALIEN and WY - their employers ...

In David 8 and Prom they have the potential to really expand on this idea and shed light on what led to ALIEN.  But I don't see how they can do this without touching on LV223.

The next question after how they knew is why do they want the xeno.  And that would potentially fit perfectly with a rogue AIs plan, a la David 8.  (perhaps through impersonation of Walter?)

fwiw I personally don't count A3 or AR in any real connection to the 1st 2 films.  I'm hoping an A5 can put the franchise to rights in my mind ;)  But even so, the theme of acquiring and studying xeno is still paramount.  They go the route of weapons/bio tech development which is fair enough but given what they know of the ALIEN by this point that's a little bit silly, really.

ali81

Jan-05-2017 3:58 AM

the creature that became a mountain in fire and stone started out as an android, it wasn't a xeno or deacon but an infected android. theres no way they can leave the deacon arc unexplored, I hope there r other engineers in stasis and the company sends a team to investigate, possibly another team protected by marines as im sure the company would take more precautions this time going back to lv223. this is the beauty of what ridley has done, don't think there has ever been a film within a franchise that asks so many questions and where the next film/films could go in so many different directions

Goddamn Tropics in here

Jan-05-2017 5:29 AM

@ Deep Space

Im totally with you on what WY and ASH knew and wanted to get their hands on so badly

I pray they use this 'on screen' substantiation finally connect the films 

i can see the final scene being David carefully placing his perfected eggs beneath the Derelict and turning on the blue mist

its what I choose to believe!

S.M

Jan-05-2017 3:41 PM

"Burke says he 'made a bad call' - where did he get the knowledge from?"

Ripley.  She told him about the ship and gave him a grid reference.

"Even if Ash knew nothing.  WY did.  How?  The point I was making earlier was that they got that info. regardless of how detailed.  Where did it come from?"

The info they had was from the Jockey transmission. They translated it, figured it was worth investigating, but not to the expense of sending a dedicated mission in case it turned up nothing. Simplest solution - send the next passing tug.

When the Company knew all about the Alien we've seen what they do - they send a dedicated mission like they did to Fiorina.  Prior to that, it was just opportunistic fishing on the part of Burke and whoever issued special order 937.

As things stand - there is no grand Company wide conspiracy to obtain an Alien.

"the creature that became a mountain in fire and stone started out as an android, it wasn't a xeno or deacon but an infected android"

There was no android left behind on LV-223 when Shaw and David left. The mountain was either the Deacon or something else. It wasn't an android.

"Im totally with you on what WY and ASH knew and wanted to get their hands on so badly"

Why do precisely nothing to get their hands on the eggs for 57 years if they want them so badly?

A L I E N 4 2 6

Jan-05-2017 4:19 PM

Wow....the discussions and theories on here are AWESOME! I find it really interesting that the original white concept of the Deacon is basically what is now the Neomorphs (look at the spikes on both; they're basically the same). I also think that, as many of you have suggested, that we will get something that makes the XX121 look like a pretty little princess by comparison. My money is that in the third installment, we will see adult Deacons in some form, and then in the fourth, we will get the long awaited and rumored "Ultramorph." 

BigDave

Jan-05-2017 5:20 PM

""The deacon wasnt a plot device"

What i mean by Plot Device is it was ultimately what they wanted to loosely show us the Black Goo can create that has a close resemblance to the Xenomorph.. without actually spoon feeding us how the Xenomorph came to be..

The objective was or so it seemed to me was to show that the Engineers Experiements on LV-223 are connected to the Mural (somewhat Frescos too) and the Black Goo and that ultimately the Hammerpedes and Deacon are to pass to us a Xeno connection..

for those with more keen eyes and ears.. the dialog was no mistake... Shaws outbreak comments, Janeks WMD Facility and how he had nuke a place before due to some Scientists Spilling something....  Plus the 2000 year ago Outbreak and then we can assume 2000 years or so ago.. Chest Busted Cryo-Sleep Engineers on the Juggernaught.... with the location so close to LV-426

They was all meant to be CLUES to connect to the Space Jockey... and his cargo.. only they was not Spoon fed.

Will the Deacon ever be touched upon again.. on Film? i doubt it.. so i think it was a Device to show us the Engineers + Experiments + LV-223 = Deacon and its connection DNA wise to the Xenomorph"

BigDave

Jan-05-2017 5:33 PM

Now i can get stuck into the What the Company knew...  where i have to kind of look at what SM says.. but also the others.. and agree you are both right!

If we look at Alien then we have to go with SM to a degree... its open to debate.. its never shown.. so there is no proof of a many things which SM is thus correct... but it cant be ruled out which is where Speculation can happen.

Right now Special Order 937 is a evolving thing, as each new movie changes what the outcome can be to a degree..

1979.... Alien... The company must have known something.. they must have detected the Signal Prior.. how long prior we could never tell.....  The company knew about a Organism... a Specimen..

But i dont think Ash knew 100% what he was dealing with..  it would be like those who pick up Shaws SOS as we heard in Prometheus...... all she says is "there is only Death here now"

So anyone who gets that signal would know its Dangerous Place.. but thats not to say they know exactly what they are dealing with.

So ASH knew there was the potential for something, his mission to discover if there actually was anything and to obtain a specimen... he would not have known exactly what it was or what it does.

Aliens 1986... This muddied the Waters a bit.. maybe someone knows...  Why not go back to LV-426 and fine why Special Order 937 was a Bust and why the Nostromo was destroyed... call it loop hole, plot hole... ULTIMATELY it was a oversight to push the Plot without having to trash out a history or details... so they can go ahead and give us the Aliens movie.

Seems Burke did not know too much, only after Ripleys comments and then when they checked it up and lost signal with Hadleys Hope... did Burke then realize what Ripley said could be true and he saw  the $$$$$ that could be made by getting hold of a Specimen.

2012- Prometheus... and its Viral Marketing.. had basically left a loop hole and clues that they knew about 1st....  the Zeta 2 system and how potentially it could support life.....  Then they detected a signal from LV-426 that contrary to Shaw and Holloways findings pointing to LV-223.. that near by LV-426 may be of more interest..

Its just not thought out well.. back ground work... what surely can offer more rewards than a Place the Gods invited us too? as far as what the company could detect prior to Prometheus.

LV-223 in the timeline offers more rewards than that Derelict... so its a loop hole...

UNLESS...... Alien Covenant shows Paradise is LV-426 then yes Paradise has more rewards.... but then this creates another Problem.....  it would mean Holloways briefing was incorrect and LV-223 was not the only Moon in the only matching System to the Star Maps to support life.... and then opens up a whole big Plot Hole as far as LV-426 in Alien....

Unless the place is destroyed by some massive event....

But then we have LV-223 still, and if a similar event to destroy the Engineers Worlds and Technology and Horrors left the Derelict in Good Shape..

Would it not be the same case with the many more on LV-223

S.M

Jan-05-2017 6:12 PM

"Why not go back to LV-426 and fine why Special Order 937 was a Bust and why the Nostromo was destroyed... call it loop hole, plot hole... ULTIMATELY it was a oversight to push the Plot without having to trash out a history or details... so they can go ahead and give us the Aliens movie."

It's not an oversight.  The order is referenced by Ripley during the inquest.

However, if someone who knows about the order goes sniffing around looking for the Nostromo, it's going to potentially open a can of worms about special orders that deliberately expose their employees to dangerous situations and label them expendable.

"UNLESS...... Alien Covenant shows Paradise is LV-426 then yes Paradise has more rewards.... but then this creates another Problem.....  it would mean Holloways briefing was incorrect and LV-223 was not the only Moon in the only matching System to the Star Maps to support life.... and then opens up a whole big Plot Hole as far as LV-426 in Alien...."

Indeed.

Tiago_miami_la

Jan-05-2017 9:04 PM

Time travel race the engineers..and they have 2 factions.

Queen engineered to control xenos.

Egg morphing back to equation while the queen is not egineered. to reproduce.

King made canon to fertilise the eggs..next offspring of queens are fertile due to parantage shenanigans.

 

I can buy ur deacon explanation BigDave .but the rest of lv 223 not being revisited..i cant.

 

Black goo destroys life and creates life...also creates environment that supports life.david wants it..weyland yutani wants it.

But what does david really want.? This is something i cannot answer only.. "he wants a soul and to play god"

 

Deep Space

Jan-05-2017 11:44 PM

Prior to that, it was just opportunistic fishing on the part of Burke and whoever issued special order 937

I see where you're coming from SM but with everything else I've mentioned on this point it suggests more than that to me.  We can't know for sure but looking at this from a human behaviour pov, it would seem 'odd' to prioritise human lives over a hunch - and again, who gives that order and for what reason? - there is doubt on both sides but to me it all points to, if not total knowledge, some prior knowledge and expectancy re the ALIEN and LV426.

To me lots of the plot, character behaviour and subsequent inferences as highlighted in the thread point to WY, or someone within, knowing a lot more.

Re LV 223 - if they had found the beacon and had a hunch would they not consider where Peter Weyland went and make a connection?  You will probably say it was classified but we can't be sure what that means exactly - I find it hard to believe that no-one at all had any idea where they were going.  That no-one is joining the dots I find as baffling as no-one knowing...

( and on that: whether its random fishing or otherwise it would seem odd to deliberately place a droid who may very well have some knowledge of a creature on a ship and whose orders are to put the acquiring of a, as of yet, not even known specimen above saving human lives for a random fishing trip - even you must concede that is too far of a leap?  How would they know to even look for a specimen if it's a random search and why value it so highly - it makes no sense)-

re Burke - possibly, but I still feel he was utilised for his 'career' driven temperament shall we say ;)  But, and I'd have to check this, did whoever planned to colonise LV426 know of the beacon all those years before recovering the Nostromo?  Someone somewhere did, which is what suggests conspiracy or a hidden agenda by some part of WY.  Either that or they are a pretty poor company in communication terms - which I doubt.

Deep Space

Jan-05-2017 11:52 PM

LV-223 in the timeline offers more rewards than that Derelict... so its a loop hole...

Yes, that's been my point all along!  It needs tying up imo

Deep Space

Jan-06-2017 12:00 AM

However, if someone who knows about the order goes sniffing around looking for the Nostromo, it's going to potentially open a can of worms about special orders that deliberately expose their employees to dangerous situations and label them expendable.

Well yeah.  We know nothing about SOs, where they come from, who gives them etc.  No-one in ALIENS has any idea - it was clearly an 'undercover' directive hence why a cover up seems plausible.  

The order itself exposes employees which is why it was so hush hush.  Again, it suggests more than just a random fishing trip ...

S.M

Jan-06-2017 12:29 AM

If it was more than random fishing - why was it never followed up?

Deep Space

Jan-06-2017 5:03 AM

I don't know but either way it's odd.  I could speculate on a reason(s) but it doesn't quite ring true either way given the events in the films.  

Prometheus has opened up possible avenues and prior to Prom coming out I didn't have this 'nagging' feeling but since we learned about LV223 it would seem to potentially provide lots of answers.

And if it doesn't (or linked events don't) then it would have to go down as at the least a rather big loose end - which is what gets me all 'itchy' ;) 

A L I E N 4 2 6

Jan-06-2017 11:13 AM

Call me crazy, but....

 

If you look REALLY closely at the gif of the Neomorph, it looks like it opens its mouth with a Deacon-like jaw 

Neomorph

Jan-06-2017 11:42 AM

*Darth Vader voice*

Nooooooooooo!

A L I E N 4 2 6

Jan-06-2017 1:50 PM

@Neomorph

 

Who we're you "no"-ing? 

Wrenchpede

Jan-06-2017 4:54 PM

I actually see the Deacon as the end of a storyline, it represents the ultimate downfall of the Engineers:

The Engineers use the black goo to control life on other planets to make it on their own image (meaning to create humans). But the black goo is unstable and the smallest mistake can results in deadly creatures that corrupt and assimilate all life on their path. To prevent this from happening, they have a strict lifestyle based on self-sacrifice.

The Deacon is the ultimate, most dangerous deadly creature: it's the black goo given human form, the result of it corrupting and passing through humans. That mural with the Deacon in the temple is a warning of what happens when things get out of control, and that painting in the ceiling represents the Engineers prevailing over the monsters.

We, the humans of Earth, turned out to be too murderous and dangerous for the Engineers' liking, we would missuse the black goo, so they decided to exterminate us. But something goes wrong and it creates a chain of events with humanity reaching the Engineers and accidentally creating, ironically, the very Deacon monster the Engineers were trying to prevent.

We don't need to learn what happened to the Deacon, just to know that it exists and that it has claimed that planet for itself, with nothing to stop it. For once, the aliens win.

That's my interpretation at least, and why I'm glad it won't appear in Covenant. The classic aliens would be another case of the goo going out of control.

BigDave

Jan-06-2017 5:27 PM

"If you look REALLY closely at the gif of the Neomorph, it looks like it opens its mouth with a Deacon-like jaw"

Indeed i mentioned this before and earlier, with Dark Nebula Sketch which i say is very close but looked like it has a longer jaw or even like the Deacons.

"It's not an oversight.  The order is referenced by Ripley during the inquest."

I agree with your reply as far as other parts, yes... i think my point was its something us the viewer and Fox the Producers of Aliens never expected us to ask that Question... 

*Why never inspect what happens to the Nostromo

*Especially those who ordered Special Order 937.

Once Prometheus and Alien Covenant come around it makes this point more odd, as far as why they never went back.. but as far as Aliens... i meant it was a oversight as far as intended for us..

They never intended to answer this.. because really it never mattered as far as telling the Plot for Alien... So it was at the time of 1986...

*Ripley turns up in the Narcissist after drifting through Space for 50 years plus...  the company as far as for the most part must have thought the Nostromo was lost... (do they know why, and why it was sent... we have to assume only a handful did.) they would be interested to find out how come 50 years latter they find Ripley, and then she tells a bizarre story.. it appears those at the meeting included Burke felt she was odd, and never made sense...

*Only when contact with Hadleys Hope is lost... which is after Burke decides to ask some of them to investigate Ripleys claims.. that he realizes something is up and maybe she is right.

*Hadleys Hope had been in operation for 22 years near enough without any indication of anything on LV-426...

So the Questions regarding.... Why did no one check out to recover the and investigate the Nostromo especially those who order for Special Order 937....

Is simply a oversight if you would, its something they (FOX) felt was not needed as far as to set up Aliens Plot....  pretty much like maybe how some would ask... How does David get his head on and where did they find the Juggernaught... in Prometheus as we saw them leave on one... its a case of something they felt was not needed to be covered in order to tell the Plot..

So we dont know much at that time about who sent Special Order 937...  we can be sure the Nostromo and Crew was expendable..  The Mission was a bust... and so financially those who made Special Order 937 and put Ash onboard.. maybe just felt... "oh well" and deemed it was not important to investigate.

Which would make sense if Special Order 937 was based off information that may not be 100% Proof, so its a whim... like Shaw and Holloways Star Maps... its only that Weyland detected something from the same system that they felt there was more than Coincidence and it was worth checking out.

Just like Hadleys Hope only after Burke asked them to investigate the area Ripley told them about.... if they went to that area and the Derelict was buried and nothing to report and no contact lost.... then we can bet the company would not send a mission to check it out based purely on what Ripley said.

Prometheus and Alien Covenant... however now add more weight to the company must have known something...

But we can put this in the same Conspiracy folder.. that we get on Earth... where people think the Governments know about Aliens on Mars, the Moon... in the Antarctic... Reptilians under the Earth.... Hollow Earth... Nibiru etc etc...

Where all this stuff is supposed to be true... but there is a coverup so we all will never know....

I guess we have to assume this kind of Angle with the Company... that maybe they know a bit or a lot... but for some reason its a cover up and only a limited number knew or know about it..

And Burke and Co simply was not in the need to know... department.

 

 

BigDave

Jan-06-2017 5:29 PM

@Wrenchpede

Nice theory and who knows.... the Deacon certainly is something that the Engineers gained the inspiration to experiment from or it was the end game goal.

Neomorph

Jan-06-2017 8:38 PM

@A L I E N 4 2 6

A possible Deacon resemblence, I find the Deacon "Pixar-adorable" (minus the ripoff goblin shark jaw)  

MonsterZero

Jan-08-2017 7:29 AM

@BigDave

The coverup angle: If AI are involved in the company decisions(MUTHUR/David/Ash other synths)...Then I would think they are playing the long game....57 or 1000 years means little, or nothing to them...send the humans on their little missions, spreading synth/AI tech all over the galaxy. Win/Win for the AI.   ...(AI: oops! a bunch of humans died.. Yawn..send some more...)

S.M

Jan-08-2017 1:56 PM

Are AI involved in Company decisions?

BigDave

Jan-08-2017 7:38 PM

Interesting idea and who knows..

We get no 100% proof yet... but hints that David has gone rogue and indeed following the themes Prometheus has shown, he would now want to be King/God... and so having the AI running the show cant be ruled out..

I think its something potentially could be going on behind the scenes with Problems they have and Androids becoming Sentient.

But its a bit to much Terminator and the like and so i doubt they would go that route.

S.M

Jan-08-2017 7:45 PM

Who would David be ruling over?

Neomorph

Jan-09-2017 4:29 AM

@BigDave androids becoming sentinent was a theme very present in Blade Runner too.

@S.M the planet they visit in AC I guess, and the ship crew being intruders...

chli

Jan-09-2017 8:05 AM

We might see The Deacon again in Alien Covenant. It seems likely that WYC sends out The Covenant to investigate what happened to Peter Weyland, his daughter, the expensive Prometheus and David. That would lead them to LV-223, where the Deacon still lurks.

 

While they explore the moon, The Deacon sneaks aboard The Covenant and hides in the cargo hold. They find Peter Weyland’s body and start the search for David (for answers) which lead them to the planet/moon where David and Shaw crash landed with the juggernaut. We will therefore see different kinds of xenomorphs (The Deacon and the new ones from spores). It’s possible anyway . . .

MJD

Mar-03-2017 3:19 AM

who says the Deacon doesnt have more trademarks of the Engineer than of the Alien? meaning that it can talk, walk and act like a human / engineer, learn to control technology and fly a ship somewhere :-) i mean ok it takes away the monster glory but wouldnt it be weird to have something between the alien and engineer rather than just another type of alien?

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