joylittNeomorphMember1541 XPDec-27-2017 9:54 PM
Nobody cares what happens to the characters from Alien Covenant. If this story is not fake news, then it is really good news because it signals a new direction: "flush the things that didn't work down the toilet, don't try to build upon them": that's the advice I imagine an studio executive would have made to the new management. I am glad they auctioned the props used in Alien Covenant, since I am not a fan of them: not enough alien-y, not on par with Prometheus and not even at the level of an average Ridley Scott movie. Together with the props. I hope they get rid of David as well, or at least I hope he stays in a minor rol. They need to put Giger's and O'Bannon's alien back into the Alien franchise.
joylittNeomorphMember1541 XPDec-27-2017 9:57 PM
And of course get rid of ultimate hack John Logan. He is the one who do the sweet talking and convinced Ridley Scott about all the David-centric nonsense, extermination of the engineers, etc.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-27-2017 10:05 PM
Didn't John Logan said that Sci-fi is a minor genre? Maybe get rid also of Michael Green, dispite writing Logan I don't think he has an ounce of originality in him.
And because it is the 28th when write, Happy Birthday Noomi Rapace, wish that they hadn't kill you off.
joylittNeomorphMember1541 XPDec-27-2017 10:21 PM
Michael Green was no longer onboard. John Logan was: he fleshed out all those "unforgettable" (and cringe worthy) David/Walter moments. Problably he never watched an Alien movie. I was never a fan of the Gladiator screenplay anyway.
I.RaptusPraetorianStaff2414 XPDec-27-2017 10:27 PM
I need closure damn it! I dont care if it doesn't link directly to Alien, in fact given where it is going Id now rather it didn't. But they can't just keep this story arc hanging like that. The Covenant is going to a distant world with a huge crew of colonists, on a ship full of colonist gear, with a mad android and two facehuggers. Besides Daniels and Tennessee its an almost blank slate they could soft reboot from anyway.
I.RaptusPraetorianStaff2414 XPDec-27-2017 10:36 PM
As per dk's idea I am threatening Disney. Make a sequel or else we're all sitting down and watching AVPR! With commentary!
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-27-2017 10:40 PM
But Alien Covenant felt like a reboot in itself. So now what every new movie is a reboot? You can have a villain without the hero, and vice-verse.
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPDec-28-2017 12:06 AM
They made a Balls Up with the direction they took with AC, when FOX felt or so its seemed, that in hindsight Prometheus took a wrong direction by toning down the Xenomorph DNA and Involvement hoping that by giving some (ambiguous) clues we would have enough answers to Alien, and can move onto something else. for those wanting Alien Clues here is what we had.
*The Space Jockey/Derelict are Technology of the Engineer Race.
*This Engineer Race are Genetic Engineers who Pioneer in Genetic Manipulation. (They had Engineered Mankind) and then Engineered a Bio-Weapon to Destroy/Change us.
*LV-223 at some point was used to test/manufacture a Biological Substance that would be used to eradicate wayward Creations.
*The Xenomorph is Genetically connected to these Biological Warfare Experiments, they either was something which later became the Black Goo Pathogen, or something that can from the Black Goo Pathogen.
*The Hammerpedes and Deacon are all clues to a connection between LV-223 and its Biological Experiments and the Xenomorph on near by LV-426
*The close Proximity of LV-223 to LV-426 was a clue that the Derelict was either heading to LV-223 or Departing LV-223
*The Chest Busted Engineer Cryo-Pods a loose clue to a connection between the Engineers and Space Jockey (although this was likely a Prop left over from Alien:Engineers).
*The Mural/Fresco did provide a few clues, but its a case of are these Historical Clues or Easter Eggs.
REGARDLESS... Ridley Scott had mentioned EXACTLY what happened in ALIEN and when we look at what RS had said and then look at the points i made above that Prometheus showed we can Clearly See we had the answers only they was never Spoon Fed. Here goes RS explanation.
*The Space Jockey/Derelict event occurred within a few hundred years of the Outbreak that killed the Engineers off on LV-223, he never covered the exact date but we can take it as being GIVE OR TAKE 1900-1800 years ago, or 2100-2200 years ago. Thus happened either Post or Prior that LV-223 Outbreak.
*The Derelict was on a mission to a undisclosed location with its Deadly Cargo, but it DID NOT get far
*The Pilot had been infected with his Cargo, something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold.
*The Derelict DID NOT Crash on LV-426 it was heading to there on Purpose, and in effect Crash-Landed, as the Pilot attempted to Quarantine his Ship/Cargo on that Baron Moon. This tells us the Pilot became aware of his infection and acted to set down to LV-426 but must have been Chest Busted during the latter stages of his attempted landing.
*The Space Jockey/Derelict are Brothers to the Engineer/Jugernaughts.
*The Derelict and Jugernaughts are Technologically similar but hundreds of years apart.
There is enough information there so we can see THOSE EGGS were either something taken to LV-223 to be Experimented on that leads to the Bio-Weapon in Prometheus or they EVOLVED from the Bio-Weapon.
Prometheus and indeed using Alien: Engineers as the Rosetta Stone, would suggest potentially the Hammerpedes are what lead to the Space Jockey Event and those Eggs. Its more likely the Derelict had entered Lock-down like the Juggernaught with its Cargo becoming infected and Evolved, and its Pilot becoming infected and awakening to carry on his mission but then realized he was infected. While our Prometheus Engineer had remained unaffected and OVERSLEPT, while the other Engineers on his ship had been infected.
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPDec-28-2017 12:20 AM
They felt Prometheus left enough clues to the above... so they could explore the Engineers more, while eventually giving some clues to the reasons behind what LV-223 was for... But some fans had not been happy that we never DIRECTLY had it shown HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph was created, some even disappointed it was a Bio-Weapon made by these Humanoid Engineers and maybe were not interested in the Plot regarding the Engineers being Genetic Engineers who Engineered us and following Dr Shaw off to get her answers... they wanted the Xenomorph Origin Answers and wanted to see Xenomorphs (or similar) in action, the only action we got in Prometheus was the Hammerpede, and then the Trillobite that lead to a Deacon Chest Buster, No Aliens killed anyone..... this was done by a Angry Humanoid Engineer and a Toxic Avenger Fifield.
So we got FOX take these on board and go back to Directly Showing us the Process of the Xenomorph Creation, and WHY and to set up a series of movies that will more Directly and Spoon Feed us to arrive at the events prior to Alien.. Only the Route they went revealed now that the Xenomorph was a Evolutionary Experiment Carried out by a Wayward Synthetic DAVID thus showing us that there was NO EGGS on LV-223 18 years prior to ALIEN and going this route now its LIKELY that NO EGGS on LV-426 for at the latest 10 years prior to ALIEN
With PROMETHEUS Ridley Scott and FOX felt the WHY was more important as for the Bio-Weapon the WHY being connected to the Engineers and their reasons for it against MANKIND...
ALIEN: COVENANT again is following the WHY but also introducing the WHEN/HOW only now its tied into DAVID and sets up to follow WHY David would create such a Thing....
So for them its been not about lets say.. WHAT/WHEN the NUKE was Created and its Purpose, or GUNPOWDER but WHY was it created to be used as a Weapon, there is good reasons for say the Creation of Nuclear Weapons and Prometheus/Alien:Covenant attempted to set us up to find out WHY the Bio-Weapons had been created.
The only CHANGE is now we are following DAVID'S Reasons for it, rather than the ENGINEERS but again this has displeased Fans, so do they ONCE again U-TURN and show us that David did not Create it, and go back to the Engineers? Or introduce something else that Created it...
Can they now U-Turn and change things once again, and brush David under the Carpet? I am not sure RS would want this to happen, and while it upsets Fans.... They have to remember the Xenomorph is but just ONE outcome of the HORRORS that the Black Goo can lead to, and we STILL DONT know why the Black Goo has a Genetic Connection to the Deacon/Xenomorph
SuperAlienXenomorphMember1299 XPDec-28-2017 12:23 AM
Ridley Scott should finish what he started. And soon. We can't wait another 5 years.
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPDec-28-2017 12:30 AM
Going back to RS i covered this before the other day when this interview had been on another Topic.. and we have to Question what RS means? He did in the Marketing for AC, suggest it has to be about HIM (Xenomorph) and you can Evolve him, but you cant go diverting off the path that is the ALIEN Franchise, you have to follow ONE String of THREAD is what RS had said.
Following AC and the disappointment/back lash, RS had mentioned that he was ahead of the Ball Game regarding Prometheus, his interview seemed to suggest that there is not so much you can do with the Xenomorph and that other avenues had to be expanded on and Prometheus was a great launch pad to explore other things.... He then suggested the Franchise has to MOVE AWAY from the Xenomorph and the Next movie would explore AI more as he feels this is a more Dangerous Threat.
But his latest Interview he is going back to what he said when Campaigning for Alien Covenant, it appears maybe he has seen the Back-Lash to the AI/David plans, and now is back tracking again to the Xenomorph.
So we really have to wonder what STATE/STAGE they are at with any Plans for the Franchise, it appears again they are taking Fan-Reaction on board but they need to REMEMBER you cant please every FAN
I have 1-2 ideas how to EVOLVE the Franchise that could please MOST fans, but it would require TWO movie set up, there is NO-WAY i could incorporate the ideas i have into ONE movie unless it skips some parts of what i would do, but leaves clues and has to be a 2hr 45 min Flick. I also have a idea that would continue on from Alien Resurrection. But again in both of these AI will have to play a Role... but it would not discount the Roles of the Engineers and their Biological Experiments
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPDec-28-2017 12:35 AM
"Ridley Scott should finish what he started. And soon. We can't wait another 5 years."
Totally Agree.... The longer its left, the less we can follow DAVID because the Longer its left, then we cant have a Fassbender playing a Synthetic, without CGI to make him appear younger, i do think there is a OPTION that Overlooks David.. Where we arrive years latter to Origae-6 and uncover the remains of DAVID that can be activated so David's Head can Narrate to us what has transpired previously much like they did with BISHOP in Alien 3
A movie taking this AFTERMATH route to what the AC sequel would be, thus skipping Part 2 of the New Trilogy could set up a ONE movie which would lead us to ALIEN but such a route could end up only being a Aliens meets Alien Covenant.
I.RaptusPraetorianStaff2414 XPDec-28-2017 12:37 AM
BigDave formally pitch it to FOX/Disney. Blackwinter-Witch sent her Manticore novel to them. Can't hurt, they obviously need someone with a vision and eye for continuity.
We'll start a partition if need be to have your proposal considered
dkTrilobiteMember8212 XPDec-28-2017 1:05 AM
It seems simple to me. Link up to Alien and give closure. Tie up your other loose ends with spin offs and such.
joylittNeomorphMember1541 XPDec-28-2017 1:24 AM
dk In your case, you didn't like Prometheus and you thought AC was just ok, so whay would you be so insterested in "getting closure". Same with other people who liked Prometheus and did not like AC. Or those who just liked the original Alien. It is very unlikely that all of those groups will find a satisfying closure. I believe the next movie needs to be a departure from the David angle, and they also need to give us "real" characters and a convincing depiction of the future. They need to quit the whimsical, self referential approach that have been the norm since Prometheus. At this point the executines know that the AI angle is what "alienated" (pun intended) the audience and the fanbase alike. They will try to distance themselves from that at any cost.
dkTrilobiteMember8212 XPDec-28-2017 1:34 AM
joylitt Closure is expected since that was the intent with prequels. My understanding is that prequels lead up to the origin. We can like or dislike the prequels- that is a distraction from what they are supposed to do. Instead, the prequels have only opened up new paths with none seeming to lead to the origin in the foreseeable future. It is starting to seem like a pretentious mess.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-28-2017 2:01 AM
Sincerely they lost me with Covenant already. In the context of current movie with their lack of ambition to do anything new. What closure can they bring? That the final look of the Alien is because an android getting infected? That the Space jockey is David? Is a mad (psycho) robot in space that alluring? The 40 year old alien formula is still a thing?
They (Fox/Disney) are not that insane... Many people don't like the prequels, incomes have been been reduced from 3 to 2.5. Maybe the hardcore will attend but will the large audience follow suit (highly unlikely).
I really liked Prometheus and wish it never had such a sequel.
dkTrilobiteMember8212 XPDec-28-2017 2:48 AM
For closure, it seems David would have to be involved since he is the only one with a role in the last two movies. The story has seemed to have painted itself into a corner, but David has to be the way to continue.
As far as merchandise and ticket sales go- good question.
Another consideration is a backlash from a loyal fan base and Sir Ridley's "Legacy". Integrity vs commerce.
Yeah, what is the point in giving fans some closure after following a franchise for 4 f*cking decades?
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-28-2017 2:55 AM
If many fans consider this already as non-cannon what closure will it bring to them? And to the larger public who want only action?
dkTrilobiteMember8212 XPDec-28-2017 3:10 AM
red0guy Consider what as non-cannon? It has been fairly exhaustively debated on what is cannonical. The answer is that it is up to the individual. Of course, Disney now seems to have a big say.
Closure cannot possibly please everyone. We still bicker on the finer points of a movie almost 40 years old that the writers and directors didn't consider since they had no idea it would be a big deal to this day. Someone needs to close it out and possibly piss of some fans, including myself. At least I would get closure.
I see no problem having it pleasing action fans. But someone somewhere will think there aren't enough things hat go BOOM. Oh well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-28-2017 3:13 AM
The 2 prequels... that was the context, but sorry for not being that clear.
dkTrilobiteMember8212 XPDec-28-2017 3:16 AM
red0guy Thanks. No worries.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1528 XPDec-28-2017 3:29 AM
With the direction that they are going with the AI thing, well I would not care if we get a sequel or not. The AI thing sucks and takes away from what was interesting with the original three alien movies, namely the human element of fear of the unknown.
As far as what Scott says they are not crazy if they will not do a sequel. I do not care that much about the David story, because I find it boring, they messed him up in AC he was better in Prometheus.
He only wants to play with David, I am not a bit interested in that. If that is the way that he wants to go then I would rather prefer if they don't make another movie at all.
"David is a fantastic villain"
No he is not, he is a mad robot with a creator complex but that is the only thing that Scott seems to care about. Despite people's complaints he just doesn't want to listen. Get a new director if this is the way he wants to go. He was alright in Prometheus, in Alien Covenant he was simply ruined.
The characters in AC were thin as paper they need to get better human characters that we can care about because that did not work in AC or in Prometheus.
I hope that they will force Scott to give David less of a role and expand on the human part of it. The way it seems now with Ridley's comments I guess that I will not care about a new alien movie, just like Star Wars.
At least the title seems to suggest that there is some pressure on Scott, that is a good thing because it might prevent him from making another boring AI movie. Hopefully those in charge at Disney understands what the movies are about, if not they should go back and watch them. Cancel the movie if it is going to be about David, I am done with that.
“Can they now U-Turn and change things once again, and brush David under the Carpet? I am not sure RS would want this to happen...”
Well, too bad for him but I would rather see that happen. At least give David less of a role, I do not care if Scott does not want that.
I would rather see that the Engineers created the Xeno.
“At this point the executines know that the AI angle is what "alienated" (pun intended) the audience and the fanbase alike. They will try to distance themselves from that at any cost.”
Hopefully, if they are smart enough.
It is starting to seem like a pretentious mess.
Yeah, it is bad. Hopefully they can solve this in some way although they got to seriously think about it and not just fall in line with what Scott wants because that would give another bad movie. Sacrifice David if that is what is needed so we can move on to more interesting stories.
The next movie must be better on the human characters and reduce the role of David. I think that the focus on David is one of the reasons why the prequels have failed. You don't need to be a genius to see that is one of the problems with the prequels but it seems to me that Scott doesn't understand that or is in self-denial.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-28-2017 3:50 AM
Well they should have stayed with the idea from Prometheus, where murals showed that the Alien already existed and the other mural where the Engineer puhses down a Xeno-like creature makes it clear that they were proud that they tamed it. Made it should have been better to leave the beast as an Ancient Evil (like the universe itself), which the engineers thought they tamed. That is Lovecraft, not a mad robot in space.
Even if you defend the movie and say David did not create it, but made it's own version, how? in a cave using quills for writing in less then 10 years? If he was so craft why not make a bloody pen or something?
Scott's unconditional "love" for MF(oxbender) is quite off-putting for some (me included).
JurassicNightChestbursterMember605 XPDec-28-2017 12:16 PM
I honestly hate the fact that the Xenomorph has an origin now. One of the reasons they were so scary is because you didn't know when they were made and where they came from. If Covenant was retconned somehow I wouldn't mind it at all.
RickTOvomorphMember51 XPDec-28-2017 3:45 PM
Sorry guys, I just don't think Disney will let RS run the show. They want a return for the purchase and even though P & AC weren't flops they didn't light a fire. I feel for RS because he wants to complete this but by his tone I think he sees the writing on the wall. I want to see closure but I would guess if Disney is smart start over with a same universe story and characters. I'm as big Alien fan as any but the train has jumped the tracks. It would take a genius and leap of faith from the mouse kingdom to close the story. It can be done but it needs someone with talent and understanding of the story.
Barf The MogFacehuggerMember146 XPDec-28-2017 10:52 PM
Disney will not be interested in AI since Blade Runner 2049 flopped hard at the BO. Disney and Blomkamp need to work on an Alien project, as of yesterday, and Covenant needs to be removed from the canon.
I'm so sick of Ridley Scott's gobbledygook, he has no clue what he's doing with Alien. He seriously makes no sense.
Barf The MogFacehuggerMember146 XPDec-28-2017 11:01 PM
BTW - Dark Horse's Dead Orbit is the perfect Alien story and could be made into a film with a very modest budget.
Human error is inevitable, but the Covenant failure is just cringe-worthy.
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPDec-28-2017 11:39 PM
"Disney will not be interested in AI since Blade Runner 2049 flopped hard at the BO."
I have not seen it yet but those i spoke to who have, have said its a good movie, sadly the Fanbase apart from the Hardcore Fans is not Large, and the Alien Universe while Larger had suffered with the last 3 movies and its a case of do Disney carry on?
For Disney its about making $$$$$ a Good Box Office does not mean a Good movie, i could not get into Avatar, or Guardians of the Galaxy i felt both movies were just a bit PANTS the Last Jedi has made it big at the Box Office but personally the movie is a abomination, having seen it twice, i now put it on the same level as Phantom Menace and i actually enjoyed many parts of Phantom Menace more.
I do think Disney will if they EVER do a Alien movie, i think they will make it about the XENOMORPH and would not even be surprised if they bring back Ripley.
I think with Prometheus and Alien Covenant some fans dont really understand the underlying themes too much. They think its all about the Mad Robot but its deeper than that.... and AI does not mean Robots and Machines, it could mean a Creation/Life that is not Naturally Created or Born.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-29-2017 1:09 AM
Sorry I am many of those that think that Covenant is only about the mad and misogynistic android and his experiments (some love / some hate). And by your definition even humans as created by Engineers are AI, placing them in the same boats as Androids, that was obvious from the ending of Prometheus. AC provides no new insights, in fact it kills any possibility of having any. the Black goo is a genetic AI? Who writes this stuff at least does he understand what the term genetic algorithm refers to in AI ? (Hint: it is only metaphor). If it in the end it will be revealed that David was all along following a hidden program and he had no free will, will make the situation even s**tier.
All traces of philosophy are gone now, in Covenant, only the mad robot remained.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPDec-29-2017 1:16 AM
And things are aggravated by Scott's identifying too much to a not that great character and of M.F. (and please note the double entendre).
MembraneFacehuggerMember159 XPDec-29-2017 11:40 AM
BigDave, you're right.
'Blade Runner 2049'... great film... not enough fanbase or regular movie goers interested to generate a big enough return.
'Alien' franchise has suffered due to the last 3 installments (although I personally liked 'Prometheus'; biggest grumblings are adding in some cut scenes to justify/explain character actions). Now, what does Disney do with it? They are all about the money. Granted, all studios are, Disney just seems to make good monetary decisions, not necessarily good artistic or story/movie decisions, ie, Marvel movies and the 'The Force Awakens' (only "good" due to nostalgia) and 'The Last Jedi' (terrible). Goodness knows what will become of the 'Alien' franchise now, but who knows, they may pleasantly surprise.
MembraneFacehuggerMember159 XPDec-29-2017 11:47 AM
And this comment by Ridley Scott made me laugh because I feel like there is more that I should add to it (my addition in italics and I had to add the cursing as Ridley seems so fond of using foul language for no absolutely reason)...
"I would like to; they’re crazy if they don’t. David is a fantastic villain. I love what Michael Fassbender did in Covenant. But it’s f***ing hard, dude. We lifted Alien out of a ditch and made Prometheus... and subsequently sent it back into a deeper ditch with the s**tstorm that is 'Alien: Covenant'. Oh yes, we did, and you're f***ing welcome!"
Well, Ridley, you lifted it out of a ditch and made Prometheus and subsequently sent it careening back into a deeper ditch with 'A:C'.
Barf The MogFacehuggerMember146 XPDec-29-2017 12:13 PM
Foul language is nothing to gripe about, what's the most frustrating thing about Ridley is that he makes no sense with his false claims about upcoming Alien films and where the story is going.
Disney now needs to save Alien from Scott's massive mess.
I hope studio people lurk on this thread, maybe even some Disney peeps.
MembraneFacehuggerMember159 XPDec-29-2017 12:38 PM
It was more of a joke about Scott's use of foul language. It doesn't really connect to his directing abilities. Although I do think if someone ALWAYS uses it during the course of a normal conversation, their vocabulary or imagination may be fairly thin, so... maybe there is some connection to his lack of making sense and spewing things left and right about upcoming films and where the story is going (diarrhea of the mouth?) and his directing abilities as of late (thank goodness Denis Villenueve directed 'Blade Runner 2049' and not Scott!).
Anyway, I think BigDave and I are agreeing... Disney may not be the "saving grace" for the 'Alien' franchise. They may take it and make money with it, but will they make it a good franchise from here on out? If Marvel and Star Wars are any indication, I'm not so sure. Time will tell.
Barf The MogFacehuggerMember146 XPDec-29-2017 2:19 PM
Totally! I think we all can agree that Ridley Scott is a total of baffoon during interviews. I've mentioned this before, Bong-Joon Ho, Director of Okja and Snowpiecer, should direct the next Alien film. I don't want to start another "who should direct the next Alien film" discussion, but after Scott's buffoonery, it's time he steps away from any future Alien projects.
We still do not know how Scott truly handled the Blomkamp Alien 5 pitch with FOX, but I'm guessing Scott was a total jerk about it and 20th FOX being too stupid to know otherwise.
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPDec-30-2017 2:01 AM
I think the Problems all come from how they tackle a Prequel...
Lets look at the Franchise, we arrive at the Nostromo being rerouted to check out a Signal, they discover a Alien Ship, with a Alien Pilot, who's Ship has a Alien Cargo. A crew member is infected with the Cargo, which we can assume was the fate of the Pilot too.
The sequel set 50+ years latter, we discover the WY Company have set up a Colony on the same Moon that the Nostromo had discovered the Alien Parasite, the company loses contact with the colony and Ripley is told about it and off we go, we discover some Colonist explored the Derelict and brought the Parasite to the Colony which then over took the Colony. And at the end the Humans win again with Ripley surviving and seeing the Colony Blown up by a Nuclear Explosion.
Then we get the 3rd movie, the Survivors on the Sulaco are ejected out due to a Fire and land on a near by Prison Planet, only Ripley Survives, a Face Hugger infects a Animal and one gets on the loose as the Prisoners and Ripley Fight for Survival, before finding out Ripley is infected with a Queen Xenomorph, the company arrive and wish to take Ripley back but she knows there plans and Kills herself.
I will skip AR because this is where the Franchise suffered, but the idea is the same as the others, The COMPANY wishes to gain and exploit the Xenomorph Parasite and Ripley comes to the Rescue.
In each movie, their is the Agenda of the Company and its Wishes for the Xenomorph and the Great Lengths in disregard for Human Life to Obtain this FOLLY
When tackling a Prequel... maybe this Agenda and what leads to Special Order 937 is something that could have been explored.
The other thing was NO-ONE had ever shown us the Xenomorphs Origin, HOW/WHEN and WHERE was it created, WHY/WHEN did the Space Jockey have the Egg Cargo and WHERE was he going with it and WHAT was the Purpose
So began the Prequels.... during the stages they decided its just as important to cover who the SPACE JOCKEY was, we have seen the Xenomorph over and over including the AVP movies but NO-ONE covered the Space Jockey.
So a Plan was made a Plot, a Bold and Ambitious one which uncovered the Engineers being a Ancient Humanoid Race who Partake in Genetic Engineering and how they had Engineered Mankind, a Plot that brought with it Philosophical and Religious/Mythical Questions about Creation. Maybe ERROR in Hindsight? But it certainly opened doors, and also allowed for the History of Weyland and AI to be connected to these Philosophical ideas.
But what role was the Xenomorph? a Engineered Bio-Weapon created to Eradicate Wayward Creation, and so the Evolution of Alien Engineers to Prometheus was to conclude that the Xenomorph was a Bi-Product or even Origin to the Engineers Evil Biological Warfare... The Xenomorph/Black Goo to the Engineers is no more than Nuclear Revolution that leads to Atomic Warfare or discovery of Gunpowder that leaves to the Evolution of various Weapons of Warfare.
The Question was not so much WHAT the Xenomorph was but WHY and WHY was it created and so Prometheus left us mild hints via connection to LV-223 the Black Goo but the MAIN point was the WHY
But Fans did not like Prometheus in masses so FOX felt, and seeing Blomkamps Alien 5 getting a interest they felt they had to Answer or start to Answer the events that lead from LV-223 to the Derelict on LV-426, while showing us HOW the Xenomorph was created, and WHEN and WHERE Themes that RS felt did not need to be answered in Prometheus and that bigger things could be explored as they moved away from Alien, while leaving those clues for us to try and connect those dots ( Which RS then commented on and GAVE the Space Jockey Answer).
But having FOX cave in and wish to ANSWER the WHEN/WHERE/HOW and lead up to the Back Door of Alien, and bringing the Xenomorph back in and actually now moving towards Alien as opposed to away.
It appears RS, wanted to throw a Curveball to the THING that he always wanted to explore, which was the WHY only in doing so, he felt that David being the Creator would be a interesting Curve-ball and thus would follow on the Philosophy of Creator, creates, Creation Rebels and Sub-creates and the Hubris of the Engineers Creating Mankind, and Failing to Eradicate us before their Fears would come true... indeed there Fears did come true... and our Folly for trying to Mimic the Gods and Create David provided also to be our Hubris and so REVEAL David had Created IT.
This Logically has to now follow that Davids Creation either Turns on Him and gets out of Control, or those above the Engineers witness Davids Creation and look on in high regard for Davids Achievements and seek to take Davids Creation to Engineer themselves. Either way providing to be their Downfall.
The Company then in the Franchise, choose to Pursue this Folly but always Failing... we have to ask WHY? and i think a reveal Curveball regarding AI's role in terms of who is pulling the strings would have been that Answer.
Critters5FacehuggerMember299 XPDec-30-2017 5:21 AM
Bigdave, does Disney official own the rights etc to Alien now? Does Fox have time to launch one last Alien film bf Disney takes over? I think only with Fox will we get another prequel; I think Disney will go the Alien 5 route. I love your David's head idea as a way of dumping David.
Capt TorgoFacehuggerMember176 XPDec-30-2017 8:38 AM
Not sure if there is a humble bone in ole Ridders. This comes off as smug and just like his straw man arguments regarding the issues of Prometheus. My take is the two writers from Prom were not total lackey's to King Ridley thus it was marketable. Covvy has some interesting stuff but Scott drove that bus SO FAR into the ditch that no Disney Jedi tow truck driver can force it back near the road. The sequel has to come way later with a clean slate. I just don't trust Ridley Scott to make a coherent film that is grounded in what made the franchise great. Sorry for those who enjoyed the film, I'm just at a loss for how misguided I feel RS has become. If he directs the sequel I won't support the box office and many others would be right to not trust him either. Just look at that awesome poster of the engineers & xenos, where is that stuff in Covvy. It was a hollow film that explained nothing
RickTOvomorphMember51 XPDec-31-2017 10:03 AM
Completely agree w/ Capt Torgo. I walked away from Covenant feeling the movie went nowhere. I do like the suggestion that a follow on/sequel movie ten years in the future and finding David's head on Origae-6 and having him tell what happened would be a good take but honestly the train has jumped the tracks. Its time to move on. I don't want an android movie and I think this is what he is bought into. The Alien universe has been established and there are good and interested directors and writers that can create stories for it. I'm still baffled that you can end Prometheus with the expectation of seeing the Engineers world or something related to them, have it bombed and wait five years for this. I don't like thinking about it since it just makes me upset. And really flute lessons, WTF!
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1528 XPJan-02-2018 1:33 AM
I agree, I am not sure why they didn't expand on the ideas that the murals showed. They do not make a lot of sense if they decide that David created it. Maybe they should have left the Xeno as a mystery because they have not done a good job this far at explaining it. Yup, the way that AC comes of is that it is about a mad robot with a creator-complex which is totally boring then if the theme is creation and hierarchy matters less because that is not how it looks like on the screen.
"in Covenant, only the mad robot remained."
Yeah, I wish that they would have killed him so we would have gotten more of the human story.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1528 XPJan-02-2018 1:33 AM
Maybe that is a good thing because Prometheus and AC are not that good even though I prefer Prometheus so I will not be sad if they make him reduce the role of David. An understanding of the story is what Scott does not have, he thinks that it is about robots but it is not. Alien 1 to 3 worked because of interesting human characters that we as an audience could identify with as far as understanding the fear that they faced when they got into those situations. One can discuss the various flaws that Alien 3 has but it is my favorite movie but even there there are characters that are interesting and that at least I can feel some sympathy for even though they have done very bad things. In Prometheus and AC there are every few interesting human characters that I care for so it does not mean a lot when they die.
My reason for bringing up the characters in Alien 1 to 3 is to show that Scott does not care that much about that compared to the robots but by doing so it makes me less interested in any other alien movie by him. Judging from the two prequels that we have gotten this far I think that it is a good thing that they put a leash on Scott so they hopefully will avoid to have his most boring ideas in it.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1528 XPJan-02-2018 1:34 AM
Well they portray it as being about David since he is getting most of the screen-time so people see it as being a story about David and then what does it matter about the themes if people see it as something else? If this is the case then I see it as bad writing since they have failed at delivering their idea or message. The Last Jedi is not good, I despise how they treated Luke, F that. You put it at the same level as TPM, I can totally see that because that is how I view it right now at least. I have not watched TPM for many years and I guess that the same will go for TLJ so that tells you a bit how I look at that.
"… and AI does not mean Robots and Machines, it could mean a Creation/Life that is not Naturally Created or Born."
If you would ask people what AI is I guess that they would reply with robots or machines so label it like AI is misleading maybe. It is still about David because at least that is how it comes off at the screen so I do not like that but I understand what you are trying to say.
ignorantGuyChestbursterMember896 XPJan-02-2018 1:39 AM
Well maybe Scoot does not care about David that much, but about Fassbender, making the series into something akin to Resident Evil or Underworld, and that is even worse.
BigDaveDeaconMember10115 XPJan-02-2018 2:07 AM
Yes Disney now own the Property of FOX including the Alien Franchise, its a case of would they Produce a Alien movie and are they in a Rush to do so? They could License it out to another company however.
At the moment it appears any Alien Movie will be on HOLD