Mar-14-2017 7:20 AM
Yep. that's gonna be something great. I also saw a recent interview where RS said, when asked about more "Alien" movies about if there would be another he said: "absolutely, sure. At least one, possibly more", and then we have the whole "I wanna make 6 more Alien movies" thing, so...the future's in good hands.
Can we keep RS alive forever, please?
Mar-14-2017 7:37 AM
Yeah he's definitely dead set on Alien, which I am all for. I love Ridley's vision and the direction he's taking this franchise. He's making it far more sophisticated and intriguing.
Mar-14-2017 8:12 AM
I'm really excited for this movie. I can't wait to see how they tie the Prometheus themes of creation into Alien:Covenant. I have a feeling this movie is going to divide fans even more so than Prometheus.
Mar-14-2017 8:40 AM
I like the fact they're making more use of Guy Pearce as Peter Weyland sans old man makeup. I really felt they whiffed on not using him more in Prometheus, such a great actor who was criminally underutilized in that installment.
Mar-14-2017 8:42 AM
I made this comment yesterday i think, but we need to be careful how much we read into Ridleys Comments, i have seen people think that this scene is a Clone of Weyland, and some even think that Weyland has transferred his Soul to David.... which are all totally against what Prometheus shows us..
This scene i think will show us that Weylands Agenda was more than just to create Synthetic Lifeforms to just be used as Tools and Servants for Mankind.
There was some other reason for this creation, i think we wil see that the Prototypes are Weylands personnel David and he has the Memories and Experiences of each one transferred to the next Prototype... this Essentially gives David a Soul and makes David IMMORTAL
And i dont think Weyland did this purely because he wanted a Son, or to play God and create his own life.
I will assume Weylands End Game was that once he can Perfect a Synthetic and transfer the Memories and Experiences, then should Weyland be able to Transfer his own Memories and Experiences from himself to a Synthetic then Weyland would have become IMMORTAL himself.
This is something Weyland could not master however... and with not many years left to live is why he had taken Shaw up on her offer as now it seemed Shaws findings could provide Weyland that One Last Chance to maybe find Immortality through meeting our Maker.
So i think this Scene will touch upon Creation, and Mortality and Quest for Immortality and Perfection.
Minimum Safe Distance
Mar-14-2017 9:32 AM
We can only imagine what this scene will entail , the true nature of the instruction Peter Weyland gave to David at birth . There is no reason to doubt ; instruction would go beyond Peter Weyland's death .
Mar-14-2017 9:53 AM
I find interesting the way Ridley Scott adresses to David in his explanation of the prologue. He didn't say "We'll see what David is up to", or "what David really means", but he say: "Who David really is." It seems a lot more personal, to me, and a lot deeper. Later, he talks about the 'cleverness' of the prologue. Sounds to me like its capability to 'change' the plot from the first minutes, since there's much to explain in the following two hours of movie... so I think we're going to discover something deeper about David, and not only about Weyland's agenda. It also makes me think about the "I am David / We are Walter" thing, another depiction of David as an individual (self-awareness, consciousness, "soul"?), as the 'person' of Ridley's "who David really is".
Mar-14-2017 9:59 AM
I think Guy Pierce as Weyland over several movies was the idea all along. He's central to the narrative, but we saw as much of him in Prometheus as was necessary to propel the plot, the TED viral was really a scene unto itself. It's funny because he's really well cast, but all most saw was 'Guy Pierce in bad old man makeup'. Alas.
Mar-14-2017 10:31 AM
I do not want to sound arrogant! But I often exposed the idea that David had somehow received a gift, had received a soul to be in contact with the black goo, the truth is that this for me is not a novelty and is even more! Reaffirms my theory that: it is either David or Walter the character that explodes the chest! And David's own eye is shown with red capillaries where blood circulates !.
Mar-14-2017 10:54 AM
Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the David8 model was promoted by Weyland Industries marketing as blond? Why would you do that in-universe when the only one coloring its hair, right after manufacturing and meeting his "father", is the eponymous founder's David - given the fact that he is the "son" of Weyland, whose daughter is blonde, and with his obsession for Lawrence of Arabia.
We do see David coloring his hair onboard the USCSS Prometheus en route to LV-223. It can be assumed that that instance wasn't the first time? Did he first color his hair blond before boarding the USCSS Prometheus or en route. Given Weyland Industries wouldn't be focused on providing hair coloring product among its equipment for all those onboard, he would have had to color before and/or brought along product onboard to do it onboard. Or maybe since he is so special, had it provided for him?
The standard David8 model was promoted as blond - as in the David(s) seen in the marketing was the standard David8 itself. It feels like an obscene blunder to me now that this information is coming to light. I understand as actual marketing for the Prometheus film in the real-world, it was perhaps done to hide the intent to reveal him as dark-haired later. Fair enough. And we can re-think of the marketing as actually having focused on promoting the David8 model with the founder's David instead of a standard, off-the-assembly-line one. But that wasn't the case because there is one David8 playing a game of chess against another - and both of them are blond. But the idea of the founder's David having being solely used in itself is a blunder. In-universe, why would global marketing for the new David8 model solely feature the founder's one and make no note of the actual artificial phenotype of the standard model. If Ridley and his team wanted to hide the fact from real-world audiences, they should have done the marketing differently, explicitly with the founder's David, so as to have made it seem like in-universe, folks could checkout full standard specifications and folks in the real-world just left oblivious. The marketing for David8 in-universe makes no sense in that light.
However, it does make sense that Peter Weyland's "son" be originally dark-haired, just like him, and as close to literally being in his image. It furthermore heightened a duality between Meredith and David as children of the singular Weyland.
Also, David turns out - from what we have seen particularly when he is engaging with Christopher Oram of the USCSS Covenant - to have gone all dark-haired again by the events of Alien: Covenant. Thus, he can grow "hair" based on the artificial phenotype codes programmed into his synthetic being? Or his artificial hair doesn't grow but reformulates to its original form in time if it has been affected (in this case, by bleaching and coloring)? Either or is a reason for having to continuously color it, of course. Overall, things are set up to get pretty fucked up - pardon my language - because he can take advantage of making himself appearing totally indistinguishable from Walter...except if he gets figured out in some way by someone and it would really be a horror to them.
But as some have pointed out, why would an all-new synthetic model, made to be a distinct and positive successor, and even given a different name...by the newly formed Weyland-Yutani Corporation no less...look nearly identical to the uncanny standard David8 of the former Weyland Industries.
The real-world intent for the narrative of Alien: Covenant was to create tension with to synthetics who are practically indistinguishable...the fact of the Walter model being made as so should be explained reasonably in-universe. I love the idea (it's furthermore quite unique for the franchise), but it is quite an in-universe peculiarity.
Overall, I do believe David himself will be the thread through the entire prequel series, and he is pretty much set on becoming the key, (infamously) iconic character in the franchise alongside the key, (admirably) iconic Ripley. In effect, it is like we're set to have a duality ultimate force in the Alien universe: David and Ripley...synthetic and human, "bad" and good, man and woman, sans-life/soul and life/soul. One thing I am wondering about that could derail that is if the David character will be active beyond Alien: Covenant (i.e., if he manages to get off that planet and continue being a integral player in the narrative of the prequels) - I TOTALLY hope so and expect, and I like the mystery and thrill of how so - or if he is terminated in some way in the film (which, if so, I hope it will be properly epic and poetically-fitting of the character).
And can I just say I am SO glad Ridley debunked the whole Daniels-is-Ripley's-mom thing.
Mar-14-2017 10:55 AM
I agree with you BigDave. Does Weyland see David himself as 'Prometheus', made specifically to steal 'fire' from the Gods? Does this mean Weyland is Iapetus? "The bold offspring of Iapetus (i.e. Prometheus) brought fire to people's by wicked deceipt".
Iapetus was considered the God of mortality, and possibly the God of craftsmanship. An interesting, undoubtedly coincidental, thing is that Iapetus means 'the piercer'.
There are a lot of similarities in what David's apparent agenda was in Prometheus, and what he may be doing in AC.
Mar-14-2017 11:32 AM
Valid points made. It definitely will setup the rest of the film and resonate throughout it.
The await is definitely grueling. But one just gets more and more PUMPED for it. Definitely the event of he year for folks like us. It's crazy to think we will actually have it to watch whenever, and for however many times, by this upcoming fall with the home video release! Blu-ray 3D, 4K, multi-disc special/collector's edition combo pack, please. haha. Can't wait! Super stoked!
Mar-14-2017 12:18 PM
Good Points LNG9
But i think we would have to consider it a oversight, and reasons for David being shown with Darker Hair are to aid with Potential Plot Devices.
If they are going to perform a kind of Switch-a-roo so we keep guessing who is who, then a Blonde Hair David would stand out and then we have to ask how does he get back to being none-blonde?
Did Shaw pack some Hair Dye to cover her potential going grey areas lol
So i think they had to show us David as different and more like Walter so they can tease us with a possible switch-a-roo etc.
So indeed it does make the David 8 Marketing a bid odd... we have to consider it a oversight... However the Marketing also does show us that the David 8 models arrive Bald.
In Hindsight the playing Chess part should have been done with another David having different hair.
Mar-14-2017 3:29 PM
I will assume Weylands End Game was that once he can Perfect a Synthetic and transfer the Memories and Experiences, then should Weyland be able to Transfer his own Memories and Experiences from himself to a Synthetic then Weyland would have become IMMORTAL himself.
Great idea BD!
Mar-14-2017 4:36 PM
Interesting that he's choosing to open the film with a close-up of a blue eye. It's something we've seen before in another Scott SF film...
Mar-14-2017 5:04 PM
Fitting, in Prometheus as Weyland introduces the 2 Dr's, he says David is his son but will never have a soul. Fast forward to A:C, David makes his fathers words come true in more ways than one. No soul whatsoever, he will do the deeds.
Mar-14-2017 7:51 PM
Deus ex machina. David already has eternal life, all he lacks is a purpose. If 'we' are legion, perhaps Weyland Corp's mission is synonymous with David's purpose. If he ever gets off that planet and back to Earth....
Mar-14-2017 11:04 PM
As BD knows this prologue was broken last autumn but of course it could have been cut and a different gateway used in to the narrative. This was a "spoiler" I wanted to hear about because it confirms a number of qualities I was looking for:-
1) The symphonic threading of the narrative by John Logan. I had gone for a David/Shaw changed perspective positioning prologue but as soon as I read about this it is pure genius. It wraps Prometheus inside the chosen narrative and begins the process of looking backing through the rear view mirror of "So thats what that meant"
2) This scene also has some other signposts the Piero Della Francesca's "The Nativity", the flight path scene of the tear drop ship and the piece played on the piano which conjures up the gift of Valhalla to the Einherjar in preparation for Radnorok.
Wayne Haag has said Covenant will answer lots of questions about Prometheus and discard the BS, here right at the beginning is the first answer.
Will the mind visors used with Sir Peter and Doctor Shaw also play into the Covenant narrative ?
I am also thrilled at Katherine's two remarks :-
1) She is not a clone of Ripley just because she wares a scoop neck vest and carries some firearms no more makes her Ripley than the fact that security carrying weapons makes Covenant Aliens.
2) She also places A. I. like the A0-3959X.91–15 as the storey driver not the Ormr (serpent, snake or dragon). As many of you will have guessed Ormr is a Danish 1st century root word for the modern surname Oram.
Better and better.
For those put off by the different physicality of Michael, as BD says the story may dictate such a choice (the doppelgänger). I used to think that was important, I am not sure now, but the look of the Walter series maybe an homage to the earlier model which was "lost" at the time of its production. As for Prometheus virals BD can expound if he wishes but as he has pointed out they are all over the place in terms of Canon/a bit of fun.
I do favour the doppelgänger story driver, certainly there is connectivity and a reaction which will drive Davids actions otherwise why have him play two roles. The deeper the Walter positioning goes the more I suspect we are meant to side with him and look through his eyes at David rather than the other way round.
What will be needed for the vast multi lingual audience watching this film is a clear distinction made between the two by the end of the first act. Prologue David,1st Act Walter than a comparative scene which for me is the monitor.
Mar-15-2017 5:51 AM
At this point I would bet that there is a big chance that the biomechanical Xenomorph is the result of David or Walter being impregnated by the Black Goo or even a hugger.
Mar-15-2017 5:49 PM
Again, and its worth repeating this, look at the difference in the drama between David sat round the campfire telling a story of long ago when the beast was created in some far distant intergalactic war as opposed to actually having put the mutagen in place in Prometheus then explore how mankind with its ambitious rampant curiosity, where good sense is trailing behind, actually lets the cat of the bag. Thematically The Engineers/Mankind over reaching themselves overturning their Covenants and wrecking havoc on themselves through their sub creative endeavours.
A backstory fit for this out of nowhere design from the late 1970's.
Mar-15-2017 10:41 PM
for me the James Franco role it seems very odd, I'm not very linked with David or Walter
roles on the movie.
after reading old theads apparently Franco dies in the hypersleep pod,
I can not find any explanation about it, I know there is a villain on the
crew but the characters are very vague, I think there will be a final surprise in the
movie just like Weyland in Prometheus. What do you think?
Mar-16-2017 7:06 AM
Why give this information out regarding the Prologue? I'd rather it had been kept as a surprise!
Mar-17-2017 3:16 PM
i always had the feeling that Pinocchio is apart of this tale, like in any tale where one wants to become a real boy.
David or in that matter AI is the most fascinating aspect of sci-fi, except of the pursuit for eternal life, the reason for living and monsters from outer space. It would be very intriguing to see the evolutionary development of an artificial being after it has seen what David has saw.
God creates the engineers, they created mankind, mankind created AI and AI created perfection. There are subtle notices in that when David says "Don´t we all want our parents dead", "Mortal after all", "The trick is not minding that it hurts" and so forth. I think it would take 10 posts to come down to all the little details inside this open tale to come down to bare bones of it.
what i do find interesting is the mention of inorganic and organic fusion or symbiosis. It´s clear since HR Giger that BIO-MECH is a huge part of the process but how much we never knew. I mentioned in many posts that i thought that the Engineers found a way to merge technology with organic substances. Even the black fluid itself doesn´t only have to be organic but seeing the movie it looks like it, it could of otherwise had Nano-Tech involved, that enhances the process of mutation or helps merge both together. But to even think further and say that both the engineers and humans didn´t manage what now David accomplishes. Maybe even with the help of Walter or sacrificing himself for the greater purpose.
Even the idea of using everything as scientific tests just to find the key to turn his body into a living being with a soul or to transfuse his AI into another body of any kind.
Such an open field to delve into with no ending to it. Fascinating how Ridley and his team manage to get the best of both worlds (Blade Runner and Alien) <3
Mar-23-2017 4:50 AM
I enjoyed your post. What fascinates me is the evolution of the story from Engineers > Mankind (replace/update mankind) > David in Prometheus to
Hierarchy > Engineers and mankind > create A I which then seeks to create.
Several of the relationships, and what we have seen to date, maybe re interpreted so we have a nice puzzle leading into Covenant.
The teardrop ship may have been the hierarchy placing a seed on Paradise to kick start the Engineers.
The Engineers may have broken their Covenant and pursued creationism (mankind) or sub creation (the Mutagen strain) and were punished for so doing either or both.
Oddly the only thing that is certain is David is on a journey and he has the tools on Paradise to pursue his creationism. If the Covenants response to David is a kind of robot apartheid then for David it is time to get a wiggle on and bring his experiments on line, that thinking must have something to do with the appearance of our friend (s) with the dental issues.
The other element of creationism which is not often talked about is Terraforming and Daniels the terraformer comes to realise that for mankind to pursue Terraforming is an unknowing breaking of Covenants. It is after all replacement technology. Whatever causes that disaster it is connected to the morality of the tale.
Possibly Leviticus provides us with clues again.
"break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache".
"And I will let loose the wild beasts against you, which shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock and make you few in number, so that your roads shall be deserted".
We know mankind survives all of these stories in the imagined world, it is what we learn about what we have come into in the imagined world that refract with our real world intent that can make these films interesting.
It is notable that if you say to a modern audience there is a creative agenda which has rules peoples response is "Don't preach". The question is do people connect the terrible things that happen in these movies with rebellion and a failure to consider such a possibility. How can we be bound by a moral compass if we do not have one, that is the point of Davids journey and whether he will find one.
David has no moral compass and the XXX121 represents reproduction without a moral purpose reproduction for its own sake. It would be entirely logical for a robot to see in the XXX121 everything that is required, neither have a soul. But the consequence of that outcome may set off a trigger which creates a redemptive attitude. We shall see.
Mar-23-2017 5:17 AM
Indeed as Michelle put there could be a number of ways things pan out and as Ridley Scott said its a Multi-layered Story, and indeed one aspect of this could be the layers of Creation, which as i was informed does not Start with the Engineers and does not End with David.
We have to remember David was created as a Tool/Servant and to be used for Tasks that would be Unethical, Dangerous or Distressing for a Human..... We dont know if those above the Engineers had done the same and created their own Androids so to speak who are Biological...
Replicants are like Androids to a degree, they are not created to be real people but they are Organic, and so it would be a bit Unethical if we was to Clone Humans or Create Organic Life like our own to use for purpose we could have used Robots/Androids
Even if these Clones have some Emotions Removed, and have their Brains Re-programed so they have limited function and so operate like Androids would... Once these beings however, unlock more Emotions and Freewill then what differs them from Humans? This was the interesting subject with Blade Runner.
The Walter Virals do quote from Frankenstein “Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge"
Which is not the full quote which continues.
"and how much happier that man is who believes his native town to be his world, than he who aspires to become greater than his nature will allow.”
Which again touches upon Free will and becoming Sentient, and so if David has Emotions and Free-will then how different is he to a Human now?
If he now Feels Emotions, and has Memories and Experiences, then he has a Soul and so is it Unethical to treat him as a Machine... What separates him from a Human?
We Humans are just Machines, Biological Ones and if we could be re-programed to cut out Emotions, and Feeling of Pain then we would be no different to how the Borg are in Star Trek or the Soldiers in Universal Solider.
So i think these Themes are at play here... Where a Creation is Created for a Limited Purpose, they become more aware of their own Needs and see they can live past their limitations and should not be limited to the intended role.
This leads to the seeds for Rebellion...
“Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge"
Is very similar to the Gift that Lucifer had that the other Angels did not.... very similar to what David has that the other Synthetics do not..
Also similar to what happened to Adam and Eve after eating the Forbidden Fruit and i feel these are Themes that are the basis of the Story.
Mar-23-2017 2:43 PM
"Where a Creation is Created for a Limited Purpose, they become more aware of their own Needs and see they can live past their limitations and should not be limited to the intended role".
There is a certain irony in this statement because the same applies in the imagined world to the Engineers who have experimented "gone beyond the original plan" and suffered catastrophe - Paradise lost.
Equally man not content with his lot "we are the gods now" suffers the same ambitions to reorder things to his liking.
There undoing is the same as Satan's. The corruption of Adam leads to retribution of a particular kind he and his followers become serpents.
"To fill his eare, when contrary he hearsOn all sides, from innumerable tongues
A dismal universal hiss, the sound
Of public scorn; he wonderd, but not long
Had leasure, wondring at himself now more;
His Visage drawn he felt to sharp and spare,
His Armes clung to his Ribs, his Leggs entwining
Each other, till supplanted down he fell
A monstrous Serpent on his Belly prone,
Reluctant, but in vaine: a greater power
Now rul'd him, punisht in the shape he sin'd,
According to his doom: he would have spoke,
But hiss for hiss returnd with forked tongue
To forked tongue, for now were all transform'd
Alike, to Serpents all as accessories"
Davis is merely finding out driven by amoral curiosity whereas Shaw and Oram are deeply religious and also are not content to accept things as they are and learn how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge - knowledge that is not necessary if we accept our lot.
Prometheus ,The Engineers, Weyland, Shaw, Oram, David are on the same journey but David can be excused because he is a construct seeking something whereas the remainder are part of the natural order. Daniels and the Covenant mission is as far as one can tell innocent and theres will be the trial of innocents. Though as I have said earlier Daniels is a creationist an intergalactic garden and one who may come to learn who are the original gardeners and creators of Valhalla and Eden.
Mar-23-2017 9:22 PM
I don't know why, but after reading this, I'm again reminded of NieR: Automata™. If any of you haven't played it, your really should. I know it seems weird to bring up an unrelated videogame, but I'm trying not to post any spoilage. Basically, what it sounds like we see here in the movie is something to think about, especially the idea that "It's the AI that is the connective tissue", and not us humans.
Though, maybe I'm misinterpreting the quote about the connective tissue. Maybe it means something else....kind of like how Sir Ridley Scott hinted about Prometheus having Alien DNA "so to speak".
Mar-23-2017 10:47 PM
In retrospect Ridley was making a huge point the great gift of Prometheus was the Xeno strained catalyser and so that was a completely on point comment by Ridley much more so than we could have imagined.
The comment about connective tissue comes from Katherine and it really is equally important in a different way. The focus of the Prometheus begun Trilogy, the straight line into Covenant and the connective tissue of the trilogy is not a replicant marketing answer to Sigourney's character it is to bend the phrase a replicant. The arc that will connect these three stories is Fassbender so David whereas Watersons character will be mediation.
The more Ellen Ripley experiences and journeyed she became the Alien of the film which reaches its peak in three. David will become increasingly the unique personality in this set of three.
I think Katherine's point was an organisational dramatic point rather than narrative one. However if David is the connective tissue and the pre eminent story of this prequel trilogy then his relationship to A L I E N will also be connective. The elements that have or can be judged retrospectively to have prior knowledge in A L I E N are Muther, whatever drives and controls Muther and the Engineer in the Jockey station. He maybe connected to any of those elements.