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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

Alien: Covenant

The Alien: Covenant, Alien: Awakening & Prometheus Movie Community

Katherine Waterston delivers worrying Alien Covenant sequel update!

Katherine Waterston delivers worrying Alien Covenant sequel update!

Last time we heard anything definitive about the sequel to Alien: Covenant was from Chairperson of Twentieth Century Fox, Stacey Snider when she stated that director Ridley Scott was working on compiling the right story to tell. Following Scott's claims that he wanted to further explore AI rather than focus on the "cooked" Xenomorphs, all set in a "War of the Worlds" scenario involving the Engineers, Sniders comments seems to suggest that maybe Fox was unsure whether another divisive prequel focusing on Michael Fassbender's character of David was the right direction for one of the studios flagship properties. Interestingly in none of the talk about Alien: Covenant 2, rumored to be titled Alien: Awakening, has there been confirmation or information about the return of Danny McBride or Katherine Waterston's characters Tennessee and Daniels. Yet in a recent interview with Metro, while promoting her latest movie State Like Sleep, Waterston revealed what she knows about the sequel to Alien: Covenant...

"I have no idea. I always feel as though the actors are the last to know. But I also feel as though I could have a great deal to do in that film, or just be rolled out in a body bag. I had heard some rumors about where it might go a long time ago that were really interesting to me and my character. But I haven't heard anything in ages."

Disney's acquisition of Fox will likely be completed soon, and with Scott busy on half a dozen other projects it is beginning to look less likely that fans will get a new Alien prequel movie anytime soon. Considering the divisive critical opinion both of the Alien prequels have garnered and despite portions of the fanbase hoping for a resolution to the prequels narrative, as time goes on there is an increasing chance that Scott may never complete his planned series of Alien prequels. This could see Fox reassessing how to continue the franchise, which could see Neill Blomkamp's script (which is likely still in the studio archives), the possibility of a full remake, or a soft reboot, or a possible revival of the AvP property being taken into consideration?

If you're a fan of Alien / Prometheus and would like to discuss Alien: Covenant and its upcoming sequel with other like-minded fans, be sure to join in our Alien: Covenant forum! Ranked the #1 Prometheus forum back in 2012 and reigning as the web's top Alien: Covenant fan site, it's a great place to discuss the upcoming Prometheus sequels, dissect details from every trailer and engage with other fans just like you.

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55 Fan responses to Katherine Waterston delivers worrying Alien Covenant sequel update!

ignorantGuy

Apr-25-2018 4:07 AM

Kathy I won't shed a tear.

JurassicNight

Apr-25-2018 7:51 AM

This is a scenario where they do honestly need to go the reboot route. 

Thoughts_Dreams

Apr-25-2018 9:06 AM

I am not very saddened by this, it would be nice to get another prequel movie but if that would mean another David movie then forget it. One side of me says that it is bad news but another side of me says that they (Fox and Scott) sort of deserve it since they messed it up by going the android route at the expense of human characters.

Movie fan

Apr-25-2018 10:41 AM

I agree with all of you. (David should die in the next movie).

dk

Apr-25-2018 11:25 AM

Whatever the case, a full remake would be a mistake.

RickT

Apr-25-2018 3:48 PM

Will not go and see whatever they do if its about David vs. humanity.  Bring in some fresh minds and come up with a better story like the Engineers are waiting for Covenant on Origae-6.

BigDave

Apr-25-2018 5:33 PM

There is potential, they just need the Right Story.... I am FREE if Ridley Scott wants someone to Share a Few Martinis and Brain-Storm some Ideas ;)

I dont think Reboots, or Ret-cons are needed.... i also DONT think we need a Blomkamp Alien 5.... but i would certainly think his ideas could be used in a connected movie... just Re-work his ideas to NOT contradict the Prequels and Franchise and NOT introduce Ripley, Newt and Hicks.

They could choose a Time-Line between Aliens and Alien Resurrection where Blomkamps ideas could be used that DO-NOT have Ripley but introduce other Characters....  or even use his ideas set Prior to ALIENS where Miss Weaver can come back with a bit of make up to make her appear a bit younger and different and PLAY a Older Amanda Ripley..

Where we get the reveal she Does-Not Die how Ripley was told, but she Sacrifices herself to Prevent the Company getting the Xenomorph and Engineer Technology leaving only LV-426 as once again the only place for them to acquire the Xenomorph.

EVEN... doing a Alien Resurrection Sequel and using Blomkamps ideas in that..... BUT NO  Alternative Alien 3 route please.

Oh Regarding REBOOTS.... i think one likely Reboot could be the AVP Series which if done right and set within the Time-Line of the Alien Franchise so say 2150-2250 could be a Popcorn Flick that Disney would like for its Merchandise and Toy Potential

dk

Apr-25-2018 8:31 PM

I am not up on time lines BigDave, but I like AVP and it could be a good direction for Disney to go. Sure, it would disappoint a lot of fans for many reasons, but it could also draw newer fans. I would not be against that direction since the current situation seems to have painted itself into a corner in some ways.

ali81

Apr-26-2018 6:49 AM

please please please roll her up in a body bag

ignorantGuy

Apr-26-2018 7:04 AM

ali81

"Well it ain't no easy grab! They got T!"... Maybe they'll have a cowboy hat burst.

BigDave

Apr-26-2018 7:05 AM

What i meant DK was that the AVP Franchise had that Popcorn Franchise Potential.... but instead of going the Route that the Comics and Mainly the Games had taken....  The AVP Movies where brought in to be close to our Present time..  instead of being set Hundreds of years in the Future... with a Space Fairing Humanoid Race and the Colonial Marines etc.

I actually think a AVP Reboot set in the Time Period of say Alien and Alien Resurrection as a Alternative Universe and so NOT Canon to the Alien Movies would potentially be the least risky route for Disney to take.

Another Less Risky Route would be to explore some Alien Movie set between Alien Isolation and Aliens.

I think the Prequels have hit a Snag now.... its how do they Finish it and give us something they could make their money back on... Some still Want Answers Spoon Fed, others Do-Not want to be left with the Lingering Truth that David Created the Xenomorph.

A Literally Alien Franchise (Ripley) Sequel would be tricky for a number of reasons, be it continue a Alien 5 (sequel to Alien R) never mind Ret-con Alien 3 and Alien R

I think a AVP Reboot is more likely at the Moment.

Movie fan

Apr-26-2018 7:07 AM

@ ali81

you don't want her in a body bag, you want her to be chest bursted. ;)

BigDave

Apr-26-2018 7:18 AM

"I had heard some rumors about where it might go a long time ago that were really interesting to me and my character"

This is one of the things we had to ponder as what was next for Daniels, the way AC ended with that Reveal does-not bold well for her.

*David could not risk her being alive in case she Tells/Warns everyone what David has done and intends to do... for him he Logically has to get rid of her... Unless he intends to only wake a Colonist a Time and Experiment on them ONE-BY-ONE but this would be so much of a David movie and no Characters... unless a incident happens where a Number of Colonist are awoken in ONE Go... then David would have to do a lot of covering up and if Daniels is Alive and gets to the other Colonist thats not gonna make Davids job easy.

*If David Kills her, but then awakens Tennessee pretending to be Walter then surely Tennessee would wonder what happened to Daniels and what is David going to say?  So Tennessee would likely get suspicious and then he would suss David out or David would have to get rid of Tennessee.

The Advent Viral Suggests David now has to Perfect his Queen, and so we know David is a bit Crazy and Megalomaniac and no doubt arrogant that maybe he would love to keep Daniels Alive but incapacitated a bit so she can Witness EVERYTHING David is doing and is planning, this would FIT with how Twisted David has become. 

But then for something to happen, where Daniels Escapes him and then manages to Activate/Open most of the Cryo-Pods the Colonists are in would pose a Great Problem for David.

I think something like this has to be the Logical Way a Miss Waterston could play any real role in the Next Movie....   Why David could even Set-up his Colony on Origae-6 and things go happy and well for him, the Colonist Fed some BS by him....

But a Hubris for him is keeping Daniels Alive hidden someplace... that when she is Discovered.... it would OPEN the Colonists Eyes to what David has been doing and WHO he is.

My Alien: Ascension idea covers very similar to this... i was then pondering if Daniels Escapes...?  Or if she only is able to Warn some others after Davids Secret Underground/Underworld is Discovered.

A lot depended on HOW Daniels was being held by David, was she merely being kept in a Cryo-Pod with Tubes attached etc to extract her Eggs.... or was she more Hard-Wired into something that removing her and saving her would not be a option? 

ali81

Apr-26-2018 12:20 PM

movie fan

yea now that iv thought about it I want that. mouth raped by a hugger then the agonising death of a baby xeno chewing its way through her chest cavity. id pay to see that,n, maybe watch the rest of the movie

Chris Campbell

Apr-27-2018 4:37 AM

According to me,  the new storyline which began from Prometheus is awesome. I am starting thinking that they want to lock this trilogy as Prometheus is not so fantasy after all...

BigDave

Apr-27-2018 6:56 AM

@ali

I think the Chest Bursting Route would not be so Original... and it shows really the Wasted Potential with Dr Shaw...

You see if Daniels will be Davids Queen then how does this work?

1) Royal/Modified Face Hugger ==> Daniels ===> Xenomorph Queen?

2) Egg Morph Daniels ==> Royal Face Hugger ===> Host ==>Queen?

3) Same as above but Tennessee = Egg Morph  and Daniels = Host?

I think these three ideas would be a bit limited.... so we could have the route seen in AC.

4) Daniels Eggs are used to Produce Davids Cache of Xenomorphs Eggs?

Or as some of the Concepts for AC showed and Davids comments...

5) Evolve Daniels into something else that produces the Eggs?

OPTION 4-5 are more disturbing and i think Especially Option 5 would have fitted more if we actually had seen Dr Shaw in the Sequel to Prometheus.

David offering Dr Shaw a Gift, Evolving her so she is No-Longer Baron and Can-Now Create Life.... only its not Life as Dr Shaw would ever had imagined... a Perverse way for David to grant Dr Shaw a Gift of Creating Life.

Maybe something like this would be interesting to explore with Daniels?

Critters5

Apr-27-2018 7:39 AM

Bigdave, I agree, option 5 would be the superior choice for sure. I honestly don't think we are getting a sequel. I think they are going to do a soft reboot, Alien 5 or AVP reboot...

ignorantGuy

Apr-27-2018 7:42 AM

@ali81 @BigDave

Even if she dies, we won't see it on screen, as we did not see in neither Alien, Prometheus and Covy to honor Dan O'Bannon. Sir Scott might change that but that would be already AVPR territory and he wouldn't lower himself there. In the movies how many women are chest bursted? 1 in Aliens and 2 in Resurrection and Ripley in cubed?

And why everybody thinks that David will create a xenomorph queen? What I can tell for sure that the queen in this context is Bathsheba and as in the Bible story, David's "affair" with her will mark the start of his Downfall, meaning he will lose the control of the aliens. But this queen is probably a curve-ball (unless it will appear only to pander to hardcore fans).  

Shaw could have not be baron, eventually baroness, but how many nobles die in missionary work? :P  And was her biggest desire to have children, even if she was barren and especially after the trilobite incident?  Wasn't her quest moral in nature ? To dream about having children and or having a cabin by the lake are making me puke especially in a Sci-fi setting, when you could explore the whole universe.  

BigDave

Apr-27-2018 7:47 AM

"like the Engineers are waiting for Covenant on Origae-6."

I think it would be a bit too much of a Coincidence if Origae-6 is a Engineer World, and how would that Bold for David arriving to discover the World is Inhabited by Engineers...    We get into the Problem then of David introducing himself, and how does the Humans come into play...

Not that this can be ruled out though...

I think maybe at best we could see Origae-6 has signs it used to be inhabited but i think discovering the World has Engineers or other Humanoids MAY be to much of a Coincidence.

Ridley Scott has given us some clues...  as he ponders.

*What kind of a World would David Create?

*Hints they are off to the Planet (i assume Origae-6)

*Movie will be less Xenomorph and Focus on AI

*RS mentions Baty and Racheal (Replicants) are a kind of AI so this reveal could mean the LV-223 Engineers are AI

*RS reveals that they will arrive at Origae-6 (likely) but that 3-4 incoming Parties will be arriving...

*RS reveals that ONE of these are the Engineers who return to Planet 4 and discover the destruction and are not pleased and so they will be off to find the Culprit (David).

So there is Scope with the Next movie, but it has to be handled very well and already a  lot of Fans are not pleased on the David Story and the Plot being about him and his Creations... and a lot of Fans are displeased at the Action and use of the Xenomorph.

But RS has a War of the Worlds kind of Plan how to expand the Franchise and i think this is more than Humans vs Engineers vs Synthetics vs Xenomorphs.

Critters5

Apr-27-2018 7:49 AM

ignorantguy I like your idea of the downfall and losing control of the aliens. There are so many promising ideas, but I don't we will see another movie but who knows with RS's pull. 

BigDave

Apr-27-2018 7:58 AM

@ignorantGuy

Good points...  and while Disney may not want to make a Cert 18/Hard R Movie.... i also think they would not want to explore Chest Busted Females, i think even the AVPR Pred-Alien Impregnation Scene is something a Disney would never Touch...

I feel David's Queen would not be the traditional route, which means a Chest Busting for Daniels and a Queen like we had with Ripley in Alien 3.

As far as Dr Shaw.... i feel it shows she may have wanted Children but she realized she cant, this seemed to be something that bothered her when she answered Holloway about she cant create life...   And also the Shock when David told her she was Pregnant.

I would think there was the Potential that if Dr Shaw was offered by David or Engineers a Chance to be able to Give Birth and so FIX what ever is preventing her from being able to have a Traditional Baby. I think she would have taken such a chance.... especially if she found out she could gain NO Answers from the Engineers.

So there was a lot of potential that a Sequel could have explored...

I wonder if a lot of this Potential would be explored in the Next movie or would have been.... as it seems bizarre how the Movie ended which does not bold well for Daniels.

A few things i picked up more, was David mentions about Tucking the Children In (Face Hugger Emryo's)  and the Advent Viral about all he needs is to Perfect his Queen.

To me this hints they are maybe thinking of using Daniels to some degree for David to Perfect his Organisms...   David was limited on Planet 4 with Dr Shaw.... but the Covenant Ship David has Technology that he could come up with some more Inventive ways to Perfect/Procreate his Creation.

Critters5

Apr-27-2018 8:03 AM

Great point Bigdave I think with the Disney purchase we will not get any mind blowing gruesomeness  which fans adore. I think it will be some lame, CGI, rushed scene or plot device. I think Alien is doomed under Disney forever. 

BigDave

Apr-27-2018 8:07 AM

The Bathsheba  is interesting because this loosely is something i was going to explore in the latter part of my Alien: Ascension Movie idea

A incoming Human Ship would have on board a Synthetic Construct Female...  Part Organic, Part Synthetic and David would indeed see her as his NEW Love interest and David would be able to Persuade her to see his side of the Story much like how Lucifer Persuaded Eve to Eat from the Forbidden Fruit.

A Hubris occurs when via Engineers she is captured and Evolved into a Bio-Mechanical Hybrid, using Davids Experiments on her...  SHE would be the Source of the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph which would be revealed in the 3rd part of the Alien Covenant Story.

Alien: Absolution

I do think the Themes of Creation shown in Prometheus but in many Mythos do show that Sub-Creating leads to Hubris, Rebellion of Creation against Creator...  Son against the Father, the Prince against the King.

And so indeed Davids creation leads to his Downfall...  but i was then to explore a Redemption for David... where he gets Revenge of the Race above the Engineers and Prevents his Creations from Invading the Galaxy...

He causes the Space Jockey Incident and also the Destruction of LV-223.

ignorantGuy

Apr-27-2018 8:12 AM

Critters5

I really don't like my idea as it is not very original. But neither was covenant.

Critters5

Apr-27-2018 8:18 AM

Yea covenant was the movie with most blown potential since the SW prequels/new triology, Ghostbusters remake and Indy 4...

ignorantGuy

Apr-27-2018 8:28 AM

Critters5

Well at least, I have seen those other things on tv, so no love lost there, as there was no interest from me either...

I Moon Girl

Apr-27-2018 5:56 PM

I really didn't think Daniels was going to be in Alien:Awakening anyways.  Just look at what happened to Shaw in Prometheus and just look how different Alien: Covenant was when compared to Prometheus.  I think Alien: Awakening is going to be vastly different then Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, which means Daniels will be killed off like Shaw.  This really isn't to big of a surprise.

RickT

Apr-27-2018 6:36 PM

Just my opinion but killing Shaw was a major mistake for AC.  You can dream up a lot of stories of what to do w/ Daniels but another time jump like what we say in AC is probably the best hope for Awakenings.  I just don't what to deal with David but you need a good bad guy in any movie and that means a new character.  I also think Disney will go in a different direction in the Alien universe if it goes at all.

BigDave

Apr-28-2018 8:14 AM

A Time Jump is very likely for the following revealed Plot by Ridley Scott.

*The Covenant will be going to Origae-6 and RS hints that the Ship Will Arrive at its Destination.   The Covenant is 7 years and 4 Months away from Origae-6 which means at the end of Alien Covenant and unless David goes back to the Surface of Planet 4 for a while...  The Covenant will Arrive at Origae-6 at around April 2112 some nearly 10 years prior to ALIEN.

*There would be 3-4 incoming parties (to Origae-6) and one of those are the Engineers who return to Planet 4 and Discover their World has been devastated and they will no doubt be after the Culprit.  So Engineers will set down on Planet 4 and then be heading off to where David is going.

These Leaves us with TWO things to look at..... which effect the Likely Time Line..

1) Will we get a movie following David Alone on the Covenant Ship or even awakening a few Crew and Daniels and conducting Experiments and what ever other Shenanigans DURING the 7 year plus Journey?

2) Do the Engineers Turn up within a few months or years? How would they detect where David is going... the Further the Covenant is away from Planet 4 the less likely they could pin point which ship is the one they are after as i am sure if the Engineers could search for nearby Human Ships then the longer David is away, the Larger the Radius of Search from Planet 4 would be and more likely they would detect more than ONE Human Ship..  so then its which to they intercept?

If they arrive while the Covenant is not to far, we can SAFELY ASSUME the Covenant would be intercepted in NO TIME and what kind of Movie is that?

Ridley Scott says there are incoming Parties in Context to after David arrives on Origae-6 and so its likely the Engineers arrive at Planet 4 many years latter, at least 5 years after, maybe it could be 10? A lot depends on the Speeds of the Engineers ships... but i think they arrive at Planet 4 after David has began setting up what ever he is doing on Origae-6 and the Engineers find out where David is off to via Walter.

So its highly likely Alien: Awakening happens between 2112-2117 certainly after 2112 and certainly a few years before 2122 (ALIEN) the Sequel that i was working on.... would be set in the year 2114-2115

ignorantGuy

Apr-28-2018 11:51 AM

BigDave I hope that at least they let go of Walter, I really do, one MF is more than enough. Also the engineers do not know how to repair robots (as they do not know binary logic), and Walter has not taken courses in ancient human languages to decode the Engineer language, even if he repairs himself.

BigDave

Apr-28-2018 5:09 PM

You raise a Valid Point...

Again i think it shows the Problem of not thinking ahead of Alien Covenant when they was working on this Project so as to link to the next movie with FEW Flaws..

I think the Question in Context to Walter is.....

How do the Engineers who return know WHO did this devastation and HOW do they know where David is going?

I am not sure the Engineers could Repair Walter, and the (do not know binary logic) addition to our Engineers History is really another way they have backed themselves into a Corner.

IF we assume they return long after David has gone, and discover Walter and he is Totally out of Commission, The Engineers would look at him and would they realize what he was.. have they seen such a Synthetic or Robot before... have they created such in the past?

IF the answer is NO, they would then also notice the Humans that are dead (depends on the state of Decay by the Time the Engineers Arrive)  If they know WHO Humans are, or can recognize the likeness from Walter and then see the same Uniforms/Badges that the Human Bodies have and can Put TWO + TWO together... so THEY figure out/know that Humans had been there...   SURELY they would be off to EARTH or maybe other Worlds that are closer that have Humans (if any are closer etc).

IF the Engineers Can-Not figure out where these intruders had came from or can not make out the Race... then they would SURELY check out the Crashed Juggernaught, where they would see the Hologram Recordings and notice the Humanoids (David and Dr Shaw) at the VERY least they would determine this Ship came from LV-223 and so even if they are NOT aware of LV-223 or what it had became, they would surely go off to VISIT LV-223... 

UPON arriving at LV-223 they would maybe be able to Determine what the Intention was here and about EARTH...  Maybe they could even determine Earth was a chosen Destination of the Juggernaught before it was taken from LV-223 to Planet 4/Paradise?

So i think any Returning Engineers would likely be OFF to Earth or LV-223 and then Earth.  Because i cant see HOW they would know the culprit for the Destruction of the City is heading to Origae-6

UNLESS they arrive while David is not so far with the Covenant and the Covenant happens to be the closest Ship to Planet 4 when the Engineers Return and so they go off to Intercept that Ship....

THIS then raises these points.....

*What would be the Outcome of a Engineer Ship or Ships Intercepting the Covenant Ship in Space... what kind of a Movie/Threat would that make to the Engineers and what chance of Survival does the Covenant and its Crew have?

*Do we assume the Engineer Ships Travel not very fast and so they Can-Not Catch up with the Covenant by the Time it Arrives at Origae-6 and then, how long after would the Intercepting Engineer Ships arrive at Origae-6.

So i think the SETUP leaves us with WALTER as being the Source to where David is heading, likely Walter will not speak Engineer, but if shown the Engineers Navigation Systems.. Walter could likely point them in the right DIRECTION.

I see little other ways the Sequel can bring back Engineers to arrive on Origae-6 other than by PURE Luck or Coincidence.

Thoughts_Dreams

May-03-2018 8:33 AM

No Alien 5 please, I am not interested in another Ripley movie. I understand that some people like Ripley and I think that she did fine in Alien 1 to 3 but to me she is done. Her ending in Alien 3 is fitting and I am very much against that they erase that.

I am not very interested in Alien Versus Predator. None of those movies have been very good although I have only watched AVP, not AVPR.

"I think a AVP Reboot is more likely at the Moment."

Another way to say that Scott and Fox effed it up. Maybe a spin-off but let them hire a director with interesting ideas (keep Scott out, I am tired of his David thing) and maybe do a spin-off about Humans and Engineers. They probably can not make it worse than they have already with AR and the prequels even though Prometheus was OK. Get some writers that can write Human characters and a director that gives a damn about that or else forget it. No movie after Alien 3 is better than a 2 out of 5 to me.

"… with a Space Fairing Humanoid Race…"  

That could easily be misread as Space Farting. ;)

In space no one can hear you fart. :D

" … others Do-Not want to be left with the Lingering Truth that David Created the Xenomorph."  

No more prequel if it will stick to that crap.

"… this would be so much of a David movie and no Characters…"

No thanks, I have no interest what so ever in a movie like that if it means another movie where they just focus on a mad robot. I can not feel anything for a psycho. To get a bit emotional: they can take that shit and shove it. I want a good prequel not one that is like Prometheus or AC, can't we at least have one good prequel, or is that too much to ask for?

"… covenant was the movie with most blown potential since the SW prequels/new triology…"

That is interesting that you would mention that, I am not a huge fan of those either. SW episode 2 and 3 are alright but 1 is not good at all. AC and Prometheus are like the SW prequels in quality. Alien 1 to 3 are like SW 4-6 in comparison which is a good thing according to my way of looking at it.

"What kind of a World would David Create?"

I am not very interested in that

"Movie will be less Xenomorph and Focus on AI"

If they make new monsters and replace the Xeno with that then OK but they must work in the context of the movie. What kind of AI that means is not certain but if it means more David androids then no thanks.

Seeing how the Engineers will respond to what David has done could be interesting. Hopefully they will do something gruesome to him which would make the head-ripping in Prometheus look nice.

"… a lot of Fans are not pleased on the David Story and the Plot being about him and his Creations."

I do not like that at all, that is a big mistake that the prequels have done this far. I also do not want another David versus the crew kind of thing, we already had that in Covenant at the end and that was eh.

IgnorantGuy: I liked to see the difference between David and Walter but I agree that it was a bit too much of Fassbender and it was definitely too much androids talking about things. Hopefully we will get better characters the next time and that they will be given more screen-time so it will not be as much about Fassbender and David. Yes he seems to be a good actor but there are also other people and characters there that deserve to get bigger roles instead of being given third place or what ever (being pushed into the background). Give us better human characters and less androids.

Chris10an

May-17-2018 12:13 PM

Nooo way they would get the information out of walter where the covenant mission is heading. Killing of Shaw was RS biggest mistake.

BigDave

May-18-2018 6:17 PM

I think its one of those Writing Flaws, where they have Written Themselves into a Corner..

We have to ask HOW else would Returning Engineers know where to go to find the Culprit....

All they will discover is...

*Devastation of Planet 4 and Potentially know the Bio-Weapons the Juggernauts had was the cause.. But would this not lead the Engineers to go off to LV-223 First?

*Dead Human Body's and Uniforms, which even if they are in a state of decay by the time the Engineers arrive they would discover Walter too who would not be decayed and IF they recognize the Human Likeness they would then surely be heading to Earth or the Nearest place that contains Humans.... and Origae-6 would not be this place.

*Walter... which i described above... assuming he is Dead as a Dodo..

*Crashed Juggernaught with the Hologram Recording which would surely show them Humans (Human Looking Synthetic) and link to LV-223

So its likely the Engineers would thus check out LV-223 or Earth...

Unless...... The Engineer Ships detect the Covenant ship being the closest craft to Planet 4 and putting 2+2 together....  but this depends on HOW close is the Covenant when the Engineers arrive back and HOW fast can the Engineer Ships Intercept the Covenant?  I would Safely ASSUME the Engineer Ships could get to Origae-6/Intercept the Covenant way earlier than the Covenant would reach Origae-6 (7 years 4 Months).

So as far as the Plot and a Shoe-Horn Plot Device... i can only see WALTER as providing the way..... Unless David leaves something on Planet 4 that Plots/Shows that Origae-6 is where he is heading.

But this is just a Logical Guess by me.... WHO knows what the Writers have Planed and with Logan who knows what the Hell that could be as i think Logical could be something Overlooked.

BigDave

May-18-2018 6:20 PM

The other Alternative is the Covenant Badges...

But this is FAR more Ambiguous and Difficult to Pin Point a Star System, than even the Prometheus Star Maps. I just cant see Engineers looking at these Badges and going.... I know where that place is.

ignorantGuy

May-18-2018 8:32 PM

BigDave Well what I also think on what budget does Scott receive. Maybe if he receive let's say 50-60 million he could completely eliminate the Engineers.

And the more I think about I really think they would have go for the David hijacked Walter's body, for being organic and all, so David could get facehugged. And if go for the fact that humans are merely machines, then even immortality/resurrection could be achieved with enough bio-tech (probably not in the real world though).

And who needs logic in a Sci-fi movie? Nobody cares about that anyway.

Chris10an Damn right it is.

BigDave

May-19-2018 7:27 AM

It appears Logic is overlooked... for some its simply not needed and pure oversight....

I cant really think of a way that by Coincidence the Engineers arrive at Origae-6......   I really hope we dont see that Origae-6 is a Engineer World by Coincidence... and Engineers arrive at Planet 4 and then go "Oh ^$&&%* we best rush to Origae-6 as thats our next closest outpost and we cant let the same happen to that"

The Problem with Finding Walter would be HOW can they communicate with him, it would be a bit of a Coincidence if Walter also learned Engineer, so to a degree it would be hard to explain HOW they would get any information off him.... but i think if Presented with a Star Chart he could Point Out where Origae-6 is.

If the Covenant will take 88 Months to get to Origae-6, the Question is HOW many months has the Covenant Traveled by the time the Engineers Arrive?    If its a year or so... and the Engineers can detect a Human Ship thats 1-2 years from Planet 4, the Problem is HOW can they be sure its the RIGHT Ship because well Earth appears to be less Distance than what the Covenant would cover in 1-2 years so there is a chance within that Radius from Planet 4 that the Covenant being the only ship within 1-2 years (Covenant Speeds) is well very much a Coincidence.

Regardless if we assume this, then we can assume the Engineers would intercept the Covenant way prior to Origae-6...   If they arrive 5-6 or more years latter, then  within that 5-6 year radius  i think its unlikely the Engineers could Pluck Out which ship would be the RIGHT ONE.

So it may have to come from any Clues left behind... which are the Wreckage of the Covenant Drop Ship.... the Body's and Uniforms of the Humans and Walter....    But all of these would only draw the Engineers to Earth... unless by Coincidence Origae-6 is the next local World they seeded Humans.

The Juggernaught would lead them to Earth, or LV-223.....

So its a bit of a PICKLE for just how any returning Engineers will eventually narrow down that those responsible for the Destruction of Planet 4 are off to Origae-6

It will be interested to see how the Writers had a way (if they bother) to explain just this... but likely yes we will have pure Coincidence and things that they feel no need to explain or add up...

ignorantGuy

May-19-2018 10:27 AM

BigDave let's consider that

1. they might cut the Engineers for budgetary costs / there is no sequel, so they not need to worry about logic. (As I said already the lack of inner logic of BR49 bought that movie quite a bit down for me).

2. If David swapped bodies with Walter, maybe only the disabled body of David is there. So the engineers might need a human to activate it or other human left over tech (we have a human corpse who had experience with repairing androids). But maybe there are 2 Davids after the fight one which left with the Covenant and one which remained and might he is remorseful of what he has done (I hope that this is not the case - one MF is more then enough).

3. David needed at least 2 years of linguistic lessons to deduce/understand the language, but Walter has no prior knowledge of linguistic so trying to decipher the language is a tad of a stretch.

4. Maybe the engineers have some recording tech and they recorded where the ship was heading to so they might deduce the final destination. (Quite a non-explanation!)

5. Maybe they go back to earth bomb it and find out after years of study of the final destination of the Covenant, but the could no possibly know of the Planet 4 detour, so this point is not very logical.

ignorantGuy

May-19-2018 10:32 AM

 BigDave furthermore, Walter could no possibly know if he would save his "love" by revealing the location of Origae-6, as the Engineers will likely kill everything with discrimination. So it might be someone more bent on vengeance .... I also think the engineers would think about Walter and see him as a mere toy, so I don't think they would try to fix him if he has been deactivated.

daliens

May-19-2018 2:28 PM

If the Covenant will take 88 Months to get to Origae-6, the Question is HOW many months has the Covenant Traveled by the time the Engineers Arrive?    If its a year or so... and the Engineers can detect a Human Ship thats 1-2 years from Planet 4, the Problem is HOW can they be sure its the RIGHT Ship because well Earth appears to be less Distance than what the Covenant would cover in 1-2 years so there is a chance within that Radius from Planet 4 that the Covenant being the only ship within 1-2 years (Covenant Speeds) is well very much a Coincidence.

 

Isn't it funny how close to Earth Planet 4 was and yet it passed undetected? 

This doesn't seem right. Planet 4 cannot be the home world of the engineers, rather another planet they seeded as they did on Earth. If they wanted to tell the hominids where did they come from why did they not left the sky map of planet 4 instead of LV223?

ignorantGuy

May-19-2018 7:32 PM

daliens In the movie they say Planet 4 (or it's sun?) is much older then Earth, so why would colonize such a world if you are not desperate to? Why would a colony even be called Paradise (the original title was Paradise Lost)? It was heavily implied that it was their homeworld, but they could keep up the good retconning job and make it a colony.

daliens

May-20-2018 12:43 AM

ignorantGuy

I think the age of their solar system is not necessarily related to the age of their settlement on planet 4.

The portaits of the 2 engineers from the beginning of Prometheus / deleted scene are carved in the mountains near the city from Planet 4, so it is apparently a new world for them and its life forms begun with the opening scene in Prometheus. It may be that their homeworld was on LV223 or elsewhere and then they wanted to start anew so they seeded Planet 4?

Is it implied anywhere in the 2 prequels that the engineers we see seeded the Earth too, other than Shaw's assumptions? There was a discoidal ship involved in the seeding, a ship we never see again.

 

 

ignorantGuy

May-20-2018 1:58 AM

"The portaits of the 2 engineers from the beginning of Prometheus / deleted scene are carved in the mountains near the city from Planet 4", how do you know that they were exactly those 2?

Sorry but Shaw was proven right, not only assumed. If not, how do explain that the Engineers have the same DNA as humans and at least one plant (wheat) has it's genetic corresponding on Planet 4? And why are cave painting spread across tens of thousands of years pointing to a star system where beings with the same DNA as humans have a compound? And said beings know about Earth and want to bombard it? Are you saying that this a big coincidence? What are the chances of that?

 

daliens

May-20-2018 3:52 AM

There was a topic here about the 2 engineers and the carvings, the resemblance was obvious. And why would they do the carvings if they mean nothing for those living on planet 4? Or do you think they made the carvings of the fathers of life on Earth?

The cave paintings pointed to LV223, so I guess those engineers depicted in the caves lived on LV223 not planet 4. And maybe the message was: when you grow up go there and finish those SOB. I guess the engineers from LV223 knew about it and so they wanted to destroy Earth.

BigDave

May-21-2018 7:20 AM

@Ignorantguy

I will respond to these good points.

1. they might cut the Engineers for budgetary costs

I think this would be something that could disappoint those who liked Prometheus, i think these fans were disappointed with how they was brushed under the Carpet in Alien Covenant. But indeed we cant rule out Disney/FOX going for a route where we dont cover the Engineers again... but they seem to be important to where RS was wanting to take us... but indeed who knows what route if ANY would be taken now. But certainly introducing a number of Prometheus Engineers would be Financially more costly than introducing Planet 4 Engineers.

2. If David swapped bodies with Walter

This is one theory.. which would suggest David uploaded his AI into Walter, thus the body on Planet 4 is Davids Original... if this is the case then we have to ask did David Copy his AI or was it Moved so that Davids Body is now Soulless...  (well has no AI) this would mean there would be NO-WAY he would be any use to the Engineers...  IF however David Copied his AI to Walter, then there would be David AI in his old Body WHO could communicate with the Engineers... ASSUMING he can remain Functional until the Engineers arrive.

If we go with the idea that we NOW have TWO Davids as he copied his AI, this would provide a Shoe-horned somewhat Logical Explanation to how the Engineers Discover the other David is off to Origae-6... This would DEPEND however if the Original David sees the other David/Walter as being set free to COMPLETE Davids Agenda... so its a Sacrifice the one David has to make... IF this is the case... this David would not GIVE up the Location of his TWIN and thus ruin Davids Agenda/Plan...... UNLESS.... this AI comes to Care more for his own Future/Existence and IF Faced with Destruction or Revealing the Location of where the other David/Walter is off too... The stranded David maybe could give up the location of Origae-6 to Save his OWN skin... this could be explored and work..... but again it would be about then having TWO Davids as opposed to a David and Walter.. but i guess it would make a Interesting Plot for when the TWO Davids finally Meet.. and bring us maybe to a CAIN/ABLE type of situation... (which is what i explored at the Start of my Alien: Ascension

3. David needed at least 2 years of linguistic lessons

I would assume David could learn a Language much faster than that, but indeed he was practicing in in Prometheus and the Prequels show us that Walter could not learn stuff by instinct like David and so he would NEVER be able to Translate Engineer if he has NEVER been taught it prior.   My point was IF Walter had learned Engineer prior... which we cant be sure about and would make it a bit of a Coincidence, unless its part of a Company Conspiracy and they KNEW/SET UP the Covenant to arrive at a Engineer World...  But i get the Picture that WALTER does not know any Engineer/PIE Language...   And so YES how Walter could understand and communicate with the Engineers is a STICKING point.

One i can only think that they may have his body on one of their Ships and be Angry and have the Star Map up and Walter starts to point towards where Origae-6 is... but this could be a bit of a Flawed Plot/Scene but its a Question of what other OPTION is there?

The David Cloning his AI to Walter would FIX this problem though.

4. Maybe the engineers have some recording tech

It could be Logical they have some kind of Tracking Tech, to detect Ships arriving.... If this is only via the Scorpion Ship then that was crashed way prior to the Covenant... If they had some other Tracking System then indeed they could detect the Covenant and were it was heading but its a Question of how far can it track the Ship...   If it can Trace it for so many Light Years... what when it leaves this Range... it would be a bit of a Coincidence to be able to determine the Ship was say heading a 4:30 O'Clock Direction and then Origae-6 would be 7 years Travel with the exact same Direction.  So indeed this is one reason it would be Hard to See how they could Track where the Ship was going unless the Engineers Arrive by the time the Covenant has not got so far... this poses a Flaw though because surely they could intercept the Covenant way before it gets to Origae-6

5. Maybe they go back to earth bomb it

This would be a incontinuity unless they return to Planet 4 way after the events of Alien Resurrection.... But then this would conflict how Davids Creations become the Eggs on the Derelict.

So very good points raised Ignorantguy

All the Clues seem to point to is that David would indeed arrive at Origae-6 which means about April 2112... and that at some point the Engineers arrive at Planet 4 discover what happened... and then they are off AFTER David....

So the WHEN they arrive and HOW they determine the Culprit is David and WHERE he is off too are something that has to be determined but HOW?

Another Easy Way could be that David Transmits the Advent Message while he is close to Planet 4 and somehow this Message is also received by the Engineers or gets Stored by some Engineer Monitoring System on Planet 4 much like how we have Places on Earth Monitoring/Recording any potential signals from Space....

This could maybe be the more Simple Route to take.... the Engineers would not understand what David is saying, but if there Systems can show the Message... they could determine the Experiments, and Star System Co-Ordinates to where David is going.

I would say THIS ^^^ or having the David Body still having Davids AI and Knowledge as being the Most Logical Ways to get us to HOW the Engineers know the Culprit is David and he is on the Covenant Ship heading to Origae-6

BigDave

May-21-2018 7:34 AM

"Isn't it funny how close to Earth Planet 4 was and yet it passed undetected? 

This doesn't seem right. Planet 4 cannot be the home world of the engineers"

Indeed but i think this was just a Plot Convenience much like the Quicker Gestation for the Xenomorph...  You see IF the plan is to Literally take us to ALIEN so that Davids Creations in Alien Covenant eventually end up on a Engineer Ship that Lands on LV-426, within the Time Constraints of 28 years after the events of Prometheus.

Then it would be a necessity to have Planet 4 closer if Humans are to be brought into Play in the Plot... IF Planet 4 was MUCH MUCH Further away then it would be HOW do we introduce Humans to the Plot/Movie and would a Movie WORK if there was NO Humans?

Having Planet 4 Hundreds and Hundreds or Thousands of Light Years... would mean a Longer Journey for a Human Ship to arrive... which if we say the Covenant took say 8 years to arrive at Planet 4 and it set off lets say 5 years after Prometheus.  This would take us to the year 2107 if David then leaves with the Covenant to head back to Origae-6 it would bring us SO CLOSE to ALIEN leaving little time to Shoe-horn in the Events that would lead to ALIEN.

They could have had the Plot set on a Far Away Planet 4 where David then takes over the Ship and Sets down on another UNAFFECTED area of Planet 4 and begin the Colony then.... explaining to the Colonist this WORLD was more suitable... but then how does he explain what happened to the Crew who Perished in Alien Covenant

Does he Fool them that this is Origae-6?  But Regardless a Setting up a Colony on Planet 4 in a Area where there is NO affected area of the Black Goo could have worked.....  The Time when the Engineers Arrive to discover the destruction of their City/Civilization and then detect Humans have set up SHOP  on a unaffected part of their World... could have been interesting and would NO doubt really upset the Engineers, WHO then may want to go and Destroy Earth....   This could have worked though if they witnessed Davids Creations and then decided to use these on Earth... Which leads to the SPACE JOCKEY... but they would have to explain WHY the Engineers go to LV-426 as it cant be on the way to Earth and yet so close to LV-223.

Regardless if the Next Plot was to take place on Origae-6 or if the Colony is set up on Planet 4.... there would have to be a REASON for how a Engineer Ship with Davids Creation are heading to the LV-223/426 system.

BigDave

May-21-2018 7:56 AM

If they wanted to tell the hominids where did they come from why did they not left the sky map of planet 4 instead of LV223?

The points raised by daliens and ignorantguy in relation to this are interesting, and the whole LV-223 is still a bit of a Mystery... what we do know given Prometheus and Ridley Scott comments are...

*LV-223 is NOT the Engineers Home-world.... the Engineers come from a Place we would call Paradise.

*Paradise is where Dr Shaw wanted David to take her... but David could have taken her anywhere but its implied that Planet 4 is where the LV-223 Engineer must have claimed he is FROM

*The Sacrificial Scene Does-Not have to be Earth... it was just to show us at the time HOW the Engineers Seed worlds and so implied they have done this before to other Worlds.

*The Hall of Heads on Planet 4 and indeed likely the Stone Carved Engineer Faces in the Mountains, are of the Engineers Hierarchy beings who are their Ancestry, the Apostles of their ways, Wise Men and Superior (but to who?)

*The Planet 4 Engineers are the Original Engineers so Ridley Scott claims. Are the Differences a Oversight?  Or the Prometheus Engineers a Engineered version of the Planet 4 beings?

*Engineers are not a RACE they are a Civilization and RS also said while there are many versions of Humanity, why cant the same be for the Engineers.

So to try and connect all this is a Rabbit Hole... because it really is something that has a number of possible ways it can all connect, and some debate that can take quite some time.

All we can Determine is the CLUES seem to indicate the Engineers on Planet 4 and LV-223 are connected, and so too is Mankind. Ridley Scott implies the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals.... is the Aesthetic Difference between them and the Sacrificial Engineer a Oversight? and so they are very close to being the same RACE?  Or those Planet 4 Engineers Predate the Prometheus Sacrificial Engineer and thus the seeding of Worlds well as far as the Sacrificial Scene happens after Engineers are already settled on Planet 4?

Looking at the Engineers Navigation System... why would they have other Galaxies if they can not Travel to them.... so there was SCOPE with Prometheus that these Engineers Seeded Many Worlds...  It still is possible that the Galaxy has many Races Seeded by Engineers and also maybe many worlds inhabited by Engineers...

Planet 4 could just have been the CRADLE of Civilization, the Place the First Humanoid Engineers came from... before they set out seeding Worlds and other Humanoid Races in the Cosmos.

ignorantGuy

May-21-2018 8:19 AM

@BigDave "the Engineers would not understand what David is saying, but if there Systems can show the Message... they could determine the Experiments, and Star System Co-Ordinates to where David is going." For me this is far-fatched." How would the engineers decode human signal (this bothers me in the original Alien too), especially if it was sent as digital (as everything is nowadays), as they don't know binary logic. The simpler way, which would imply some body horror is to use the human brains that remained there, or "resurrect" someone. If they are masters of bio-tech maybe we should look there.

ignorantGuy

May-21-2018 8:26 AM

 @BigDave And to repeat myself someone bent on revenge is more likely to cooperate with the Engineers.

BigDave

May-21-2018 2:21 PM

"as they don't know binary logic."

This was a rather odd thing to add to the Engineers which indeed would make understanding our Technology even more unlikely...   i was thinking not that they could understand the signal...  But be able to receive it, much like how the Transmission the Covenant intercepted.

But i am just trying to think of ways for HOW these Engineers could determine where Origae-6 is rather than it being Coincidence or Lazy Plot Writing or Oversights. (We have had enough of that in the Prequels).   I think the Signal would be flawed route too, because as you said, there Systems would have to be able to be able to recieve and decode the signal just as a Human Ship would do.. which could be some stretch if it was a Video Signal..

Detecting Audio would be maybe not to flawed... but detecting a audio would just present the Engineers with a Language (English) they may not understand and so to them this Signal would be similar to how the Space Jockey Signal was to the Nostromo...     While MUTHUR took time to then realize the signal could be a Warning.... I cant see any audio transmission being of any use to the Engineers, even if David said something like

"i am now heading to the destination Origae-6 RA 117h03m36.45 -43°33'38.1” dec 4.83"

If this is recieved and decoded to a transmision they can listen too, then with it not being their Native Language... unless they understand English they would not be able to determine any directions from this as how do they tell what the destination is compared to RA 117h03m36.45 if they whole lot sounds like sounds/words the Engineers have NO clue what they are.

"The simpler way, which would imply some body horror is to use the human brains that remained there, or "resurrect" someone. If they are masters of bio-tech maybe we should look there."

Simpler? who knows.... interesting way... for certain... this would work if they have a device or technology that allows them to read a brain.. or some kind of Telepathy. 

Maybe even the Memories/Soul of a Host can be carried over to a Xenomorph/Neomorph and the Engineers can gain information from one of those... either way... i think its a interesting idea to explore.

And i think Orams Body would be the ideal one for the Engineers to Interrogate if they went for something as you suggested.

"@BigDave And to repeat myself someone bent on revenge is more likely to cooperate with the Engineers."

The Question would be WHO? as you said before would WALTER give up any information and put Daniels in Jeopardy? or would he know SHE is in trouble regardless?

Then its how do they communicate with him.... so RUNNING with your idea... then a Resurrected Oram would surely want REVENGE

ignorantGuy

May-22-2018 1:22 AM

@BigDave ... no Resurrected Oram please. Let him rest please already...

BigDave

May-22-2018 5:44 AM

Who's Brain do they resurrect instead then ;)

I do feel what we could have got was the Engineers just arrive at Origae-6 in the 3rd Act with NO explanation whats so ever... this would seem to fit with the kind of writing behind Alien Covenant and then they could always release some Viral Video to try and make a Half Baked Explanation ;)

BigDave

May-22-2018 6:02 AM

Back to the OT..

"But I also feel as though I could have a great deal to do in that film, or just be rolled out in a body bag"

This sounds like she feels there was scope for where they could go with her Character, and we know prior to Alien Covenant and so after Prometheus and even a year latter we know that Noomi Rappace also was excited to where the Next movie could be heading and at reprising her Role as Dr Elisabeth Shaw..  but that NEVER happened and so i think Miss Waterson is kind of accepting they could just as easy take her Character out.... in regards mainly due to not knowing where the Next Movie would go at the current time of that Interview.

" had heard some rumors about where it might go a long time ago that were really interesting to me and my character."

This could be the Plans they had during the Edit Process of the movie and maybe also after the release and Marketing...  She did Cut Ridley Scott off when he was talking about the Sequels.... in a way that suggested he could be giving too much away.

At this point maybe she did have SOME idea for the Plans for her Character at the time, looking at the Set-Up during Alien Covenant it likely sets up the potential for David to pursue her as a Interest for what ever Plans he has in mind.  In Alien Covenant he said he would do to her what he had done to Dr Shaw... and we see that he attempted to Force her to Kiss him.... and with the Walter Dynamic of Duty not Love it could be that David will turn his creepy interests towards Daniels.... but its also likely he may wish to do THINGS to her that he did with Dr Shaw and THINGS that he wanted to do.

We can see that David had offered to EVOLVE Dr Shaw but she rejected him and so she was USED to allow him to Create his Xenomorphs..  so with the ADVENT claiming David just needs to Perfect his Queen...

It could be that this is the kind of Plot/Ideas that Katherine was on about,  a Plot where David would want to use Daniels for the Benefit of Perfecting and Creating more of his Xenomorphs..  Which i always felt if this was the case it would not be a SIMPLE.... Face Hugger + Daniels = Queen Xenomorph, i am sure Ridley Scott would want to try something different than Camerons Xenomorph Queen and be a bit more inventive.

This may have been something interesting to see.... Does he Successfully create his Queen from Daniels?  Does she Survive? Is she kept alive some how and yet will witness what Horrors David has in store.  I think it could have been a Interesting Side Plot...

I know some Fans were Disappointed about Dr Shaw... not only not being able to see her... but more so because we NEVER got a Spoon-Fed explanation or scenes showing the Horrific Things David was doing to her...   Maybe this is something they could have done with Daniels?

But with Disney now having Ownership.... i think there would be BOUNDARIES that Disney would NOT cross.

ignorantGuy

May-22-2018 7:14 AM

@BigDave However, the Disney deal is not through oficially...

Thoughts_Dreams

May-22-2018 7:47 AM

As far as taking (damn what is her name?) yeah Daniels out I do not feel that it is very important since I felt nothing for her character. Maybe if they give her some well-defined personality then that would be fine but in no way should she be like she was in AC where she was like a blank slate. People develop through out life so her personality could develop as well so she is better written in a sequel than she was in AC (which would not be too difficult since she had almost no personality in AC along with most characters). Look at Aliens and Alien 3 if you want to know how you make interesting characters or you can forget it and throw the sequel away. They killed Shaw so to kill Daniels would be a mistake I think even though her character was not well written like most in AC.

Maybe David will try to kill her and so he fails to do that and Daniels take a gruesome revenge on him so we finally get the death of the psycho robot.

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