Jun-26-2020 12:24 AM
What do I think of Alien 3 and Resurrection being hypersleep nightmares? Brilliant! Because I had the same idea myself a while back, ha ha.
Let’s face it, Alien 3 was a sorry end for Ripley, and the sequel was a dreary uninspired letdown. It would be for the best if they turned out to be bad dreams. In fact the CGI explosion at the end of Resurrection is so bad, that a shabby dream can be the only logical explanation of events!
Cameron was devastated when his carefully crafted characters were just snuffed out in an instant. It would be great to see them back again.
Plus, there’s still room to explore the Engineer Universe so I have my fingers crossed for both story arcs to continue.
Jun-26-2020 12:58 AM
I think if any thing is done in the right way it could be a great film. Bringing Ripley back not so sure how I feel about that just yet.
I like the idea of Weaver taking on that role again....however she is much older now and just does not look anything like she used to because of her advanced age.
I really enjoyed the sequel to to Blade Runner but I did not like the seeing Harrison Ford at almost 80 years old reprise his role of Decard. I still enjoyed the film very much in almost every respect and I think its one of the better science fiction films because of the great acting and special effects. Every frame of Blade Runner 2049 is pure eye candy.
The character of Ripley would have the same effect on me I feel unless they have a very good plot device for her advanced age. Weaver is 70 with really good make up she might pass for 50 not sure.
While we are here discussing this I would like to bring up a very important aspect of Blade Runner 2049. No spoilers of course but the movie has been out for three years now.
When I saw the scene with Rachel I thought they had a very close look alike actress playing Rachel. I had no idea Rachel is all highly detailed composites, layers, and computer animation. Let me back up a little her face is computer generated the body under neath the computer generated head is that of real actor.
What I am getting at is that I have no doubt in as little as ten years we will get these actors that starred in movies years ago and they will be fully rendered from AI and we will not be able to tell they are not real.
The animated Rachel in Blade Runner 2049 is just one of the newer techniques they are using now to get these passable CGI representations that look like real human beings.
I really do not care about actors and how they are used to make art. All I care about is the art....we know these are make believe created worlds....so the fact they are starting to make the actors and perhaps actors that never existed is a very interesting concept.
I am not sure how an audience watching an Alien film 20 years from now might see a younger Ripley and not be able to tell any difference that it is a computer generated actor. I do not believe it makes any difference. Art is art and so I do not want to judge others crafts and skills....all I know is I like it very much. I have come back to the scene of Rachel a few times in the past couple of years and each time even though I know she is not real I feel she is....if you have not seen the movie please do and enjoy. You are missing out on the what the future holds possible by limiting your horizons for this very real future. It is going to happen no matter what so we should embrace the good when and were we can.
I do not care if they RETCON Alien 3, and 4.
Of course I am going to go for the ride like every other Alien fan.
Jun-26-2020 1:01 AM
- Unknown origin of ovomorphs.
- Unknown number of facehuggers.
- Strange changes in facehugger's design (AC version)
- Changing the design of cryopods.
- Ripley's hallucinations.
- Sudden Michael Bishop - Android creator, and also he looks like an android.
- Ripley's latest report from Nostromo, at the end of the film.
These and many other questions have no answers. And some answers are far-fetched.
A large number of mistakes and inconsistencies, also meaningless changes - really create a somewhat surrealistic perception of the film.
Cryosleep nightmare? Rather - a delusional dream.
The same with Alien Resurrection - the story is more logical and has no strong mistakes, but the visual style doesn't allow one to doubt the illusion of what is happening.
Thus, two stories have loopholes to exclude them from the canon and moving to cryonightmares category.
Jun-26-2020 1:06 AM
Great post. It has been a while since I saw those two films so yeah it is hard to keep up with every detail that is important when considering retcon for new canon.
Jun-26-2020 1:07 AM
>>>Cameron was devastated when his carefully crafted characters were just snuffed out in an instant.
Yes, but that’s literally what he did (or approved) in Dark Fates with his characters, for the sake of sjw-scum agenda. Therefore, I think that he destroyed this myth about himself. This is not the same Cameron who filmed Aliens.
Jun-26-2020 4:48 AM
It would be INTERESTING to see HOW much Different this is than Blomkamps Idea.... It seems that Blomkamp may have given us a Alternative Sequel to ALIENS thats set 20+ Years latter. But it would appear he would give NO REASON for Alien 3 and Alien R.. it would be like Accepting a Alternative Direction.
With Walter Hills idea it appears they will SHOW that Alien 3 and Alien R are just NIGHTMARES...
The BIGGEST Problem i have with this Direction is it is in essence a RETCON.... and ONCE you have Disney go this route then you have TWO very Problematic Scenarios.
1) The Movie Bombs! Then its a case of WHERE to do we go then? The only Option would be to STICK it away for another 10-20 Years and do a Complete REBOOT!
2) The Movie is a HIT.... then its a case of Disney could then just go and RETCON whatever they wanted to in the Franchise.... Prequels.. oh NEVER happened... ALIEN.. lets remake it with CGI Ripley!
The TAGLINE is also a Concern for me...
"A Dream within a Dream"
Whats that MEAN? they could use this to make even ALIEN just a Dream!
The Biggest Question would be in WHAT kind of Guise will come our Xenomorph Threat? Has Walter Hill stuck with the Vanillamorph?
IF NOT... then its a case of IF it gets the Green Light would DISNEY want them to NOT steer to FAR from what Fans are Accustomed to Aesthetically.
While the Prequels are a Touchy Subject and are in a Sticky Situation...
I think that YES give another ALIEN Movie is a Good Idea, but i DONT think you have to go for the Alien 3 and Alien R had NEVER happened and BRING BACK our Ripley!
The Topic i made the other week ALIEN: GAMMA was in light of this News about essentially making a ALTERNATIVE sequel to ALIENS and my Topic was to look at lets say if we could have taken a Different Direction after ALIENS back in the 90's then WHAT would you do?
But none the less.... the idea i had for ALIEN: GAMMA is something that they could still go with, as far as the NUTS/BOLTS and simply do-not have Ripley.
2179 saw TWO Major Events in the Franchise..
1) The Destruction of Hadleys Hope.
2) The Death of Ripley via Sacrifice to prevent the Company from Obtaining a Xenomorph.
What is the STATUS of the Derelict on LV-426 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope?
IF its a Total No Go!.... then WHY would it seem that LV-426 was the ONLY place for the Xenomorph? If this is NOT the case then again THIS is other Avenues to Explore.
I see NO Reason for a RETCON other than to RUN out of Ideas and think that you have to give the Fans the Xenomorph and RIPLEY in order to make $$$$$$
But $$$$ is all that Matters and Fan-service Sells and this WILL be the Direction that DISNEY would take (if any).
I think IF you want to Carry on with a Ripley.... then the Ripley 8 Arc is the way to GO! A Proper Chronological ALIEN V.
Jun-26-2020 4:52 AM
Regarding the use of CGI...
Then improvements are made every Year... in 10 Years Time and with a BIG BUDGET then you could Resurrect any Character from a Movie Franchise and you would NOT really be able to tell they are CGI.
At the MOMENT... its Expensive Per Minute.... if its DONE right then Yeah! it looks Great.... if its NOT then it can look a Bit Wonky...... any use of CGI is best used in SMALL amounts....
To have a Ripley in CGI to look 30 Years Younger and for her to Feature in say 60%+ of the Movie would be VERY EXPENSIVE to get Right....
As years go by it would become Easier and Cheaper though.
Jun-26-2020 6:11 AM
It makes more sense to retcon after Alien. This is the first instance of Ripley sleeping.
She is asleep and still adrift as we speak.
Jun-26-2020 9:45 AM
>>>I think IF you want to Carry on with a Ripley.... then the Ripley 8 Arc is the way to GO!
Theoretically, it is possible to make a film chronologically after AR. This is a normal way of development. But to do a sequel to AR? It sounds like an attempt to kill the business before it starts.
No one will go to watch a film with a reputation - “sequel of AR”.
Because for this you have to accept AR as a mandatory part of the franchise. And if you do, then you have to watch AR before AR2. Is there a torture that is worse and unpleasant?
>>>Has Walter Hill stuck with the Vanillamorph?
Yes I know! Some another generic monster will be better, just because it is something new! We need to be blind and praise everything new.
There is an idea even better - to create a film where all aliens are replaced by humanoids! Down with strange shapes! Praise deep ideas instead!
P.S. What wrong with xenomorph? why don't you like xenomorph so much? It seems like an obsession with someone else's point of view. If Ridley has prejudices against the xenomorph - this is his right, but this does not mean that he is right.
The harsh truth is that his opinion has no more weight than the opinion of any other person.
Jun-26-2020 10:02 AM
Interesting points for sure on what treatments might work best and for the sake of continuity, preserving that legacy is important. Is it the most important thing if we get much better films here on out? Very tough questions indeed.
I would like to few more interesting facts about how these newer CGI renders are going to not only cheaper in the future but absolutely necessary.
When understanding computer graphics and animation it is best to look at the new unreal engine for what lays ahead in this hyper realistic animated future.
Renders are not animated for 8k texture environments that is the first thing. So when done right they do look more than human.
When we think about animating humans they will come up with a program that mimics the outline of the bone structure, the muscles that sit on the bones, and finally the layers of flesh over the muscles. I think we all have a misconception here that once you make a program that works to create all the outward functions of what you might see the cost to recreate or make an entirely new actor become far less than paying actors millions of dollars to star in a role.
Just for right now lighting an actors facial expression in composites is technically challenging for computer programs; but, not so much the physics for making what is underneath that animation to take a another live actor and trace their movements to what you see rendered by the computer simulation overlays.
I suggest everyone take peek into the future at this Youtube video explaining Unreal Engine 5. Because when you mix a physics engine for transferring movements into a computer program that will animate that actor completely the last things to consider might be lighting....and I think they have it solved.
Imagine the physics engine for all the parts that simulate humans, another program transferring movements into the phyics engine, and then render program measuring light in the shot overlaying that onto the highly pixel mapped composite to form a three layer deep fake...but a deep fake that takes place a decade from now.
One actor has the dots on them doing the movement. The next physics animation program does the overlay of the flesh, then a very advanced computer does the lighting to form a three layer deep fake....everyone the lighting you see in the Unreal 5 engine is run on a PS5. Imagine what happens when you use real computing power that movie studio's have.....1000 servers. 20 years ago Lukas was using buildings full of servers to render his composites into the final animations for the Star Wars films. From what I understand it 50,000,000 dollars worth of servers at the time.
Jan. 26, 2007 5:40 p.m. PT,
The data center, which is housed on a lower level of the Letterman Digital Arts Center where Lucasfilm is headquartered, opened its doors in 2005 as Lucas was moving much of that empire to San Francisco's Presidio, a former army base in the shadow of the Golden Gate Bridge, from its previous home across the bay in San Rafael.
Clark said that he expects that number to double within the next month.
And with a host of projects in the pipeline, including Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, Evan Almighty, the next Harry Potter film, Transformers and more, it's important that Clark and his team keep up with the company's computing needs.
"There's a large R&D effort that drives much of the this," he said, "based on the goals of the projects."
Beyond the 198 Verari servers, the center also sports row after row of "legacy" servers, including racks of 65 Angstrom Microsystems servers.
"It doesn't take long to turn legacy," Clark said. "Sometimes it's only six to seven months before we're moving on to the next technology."
That Ureal 5 engine simulation you see in the Youtube clip runs on one PS5!!!!!!! not 50 million worth of server rendering capabilities running billions of narrow AI's to do the composites for flesh and muscles transferred from another actor moving around.
In ten years you should be able to do all of this for few hundred thousand dollars and make highly detail live action animated actors real or ones from our past.
Jun-26-2020 10:17 AM
Could we please have the edit feature turned on for this post so we can make any corrections. Our goal is to communicate interesting ideas not be punished to edit everything in another program then transfer to the post. Please turn on the edit features. You can edit your post in the other sections why not this one....it makes no sense....shaking angry fist in the air!!! I want my video game quarter back!
We get it only some people get to edit their posts!
Jun-26-2020 1:34 PM
No thanks, they ended Ripley just fine in Alien 3. I do not know how you could top that and also even though the prequels have been disappointments it doesn't mean that it is a good thing to bring Ripley back. Leave Ripley alone if you shall do another movie. There has got to be a way to make something new and also no thanks to another David movie. By the way, those Xenos look really effing bad.
"And if you do, then you have to watch AR before AR2. Is there a torture that is worse and unpleasant?"
Being forced to watch AVPR would be worse I would say.
No thanks to another Ripley and no to more Androidism.
Jun-26-2020 2:04 PM
Everyone has and are Entitled to their Own Opinions ;)
I am maybe in the same BOAT as RS in regards to seeing the Xenomorph has been SHOWN quite a lot across different Formats, and as far as THEATRICALLY i think its Reputation had been Downgraded...
I think some of Alien Resurrection can be Blamed for that, but also the AVP Movies too, NOT to mention AC!
Prior to AC then it was kept a Mystery as to the Xenomorph, certainly a bit more prior to the Prequels.
I just feel if you KEEP going back to the Xenomorph then its going to NEED a Good Story to be Told than LOOK! we Founds Eggs/Queen.
You could maybe have tried to UPLIFT them in another Movie.... but the Prequels seemed to GIVE us that we are merely dealing with a Engineered Biological Organism, or ONE that is a Consequence of Biological Warfare.
I think that YES you can go back to the Xenomorph but i am NOT so sure How Many times you can go over and over the same Incarnation/Agenda as we have seen in the Franchise. I think some Movies had introduced NEW things that could be Worth Exploring...
But sometime maybe CHANGE is not Good... and sticking to the IF IT BROKE! then Dont Fix it Mantra will NOT work if you Churn Out the same PLOT and same Adaption of a Egg Laying Monster who has the Instinct to Survive and Procreate like some kind of Advanced Space Termite!
I think the MORE you continue with that then after you have seen so MUCH of the Egg Laying, Face Hugging, Chest Bursting and Snarling/Killing then you do RISK the Beast becoming COOKED...
Some Fans may enjoy this.... thats not to say they are NOT wrong...
I just think with Revelations about the Xenomorph being merely a Engineered Organism or the Result of connected Biological Warfare.... then it DOES really LIMIT what is NEXT...
Unless we EVOLVE the Beast, make some Changes... you dont have to Deter too FAR from the Default Version.
Of course prior to the Prequels we could all WONDER what was the Xenomorph!
1) Some Creation of the Space Jockey? Then Eventually we have to look at WHY and what was the Space Jockeys intention with it.
2) Some pre-existing Organism the Space Jockey merely are attempting to USE like the W-Y Company are. Then you have to ASK as to WHEN they was Encountered and IF there is more to Gain from them than to KILL stuff.
IF you had gone for a Pre-Existing Organism... then i think there is NOT much you can do if its Portrayed as only going around to Obtain a Queen, then SET-UP a Hive and Survive.... AKA Space Termites...
You would have to EVOLVE/UPLIFT them more than merely that...
Sadly with the Prequels that SHIP seems to have SAILED!
But i think that AR had shown some Potential to show that Experiments could lead to a Evolution.... look at Planet of the Apes and how mere Apes had became what they did because of Experiments... So you could UPLIFT them that way.
The Prequels open up the Question of WHAT had predated those Experiments or the Black Goo that Predated our Xenomorph. So you could explore something NEW that you can see a Connection, and then be left to see that MAYBE the Xenomorph could be Experimented with to HARNESS more than a Egg Laying Invasive Species.
I have NO real Objection to going back to Eggs... i think if you do it RIGHT you could have a Few more Runs... before i think you have to Change things a bit...
I do Object to the NEED to bring back Human Ripley and RETCON any other Movies.
Jun-26-2020 2:28 PM
Certainly as Time goes on then pulling off GOOD CGI will improve... it is HARD to get Human Skin/Texture correct and some Efforts are better than Others.
Even in more Recent Years we have seen some NOT so Good Efforts.
Final Fantasy 2001
I think this was Spectacular for being Produced 20 Years ago compared to CGI at the Time, Jurassic Park was Great Too, but replicating REAL Human Texture etc is more Difficult.
With SW Rogue One then Tarkin was not BAD but still NOT there as far as being a Near Perfect Replica.
With Blade Runner 2049 then the STILL shots of Racheal are Nearly there.... the Animation Part shows that Progress has been MADE. Overall a Very Passable Effort
I thought that the De-Aged Kurt Russell (Guardians of the Galaxy) was Very Impressive.
Regarding the EDIT Feature...
Yeah its something that Happens in the News Section compared to being FINE in the Forums.
Jun-26-2020 2:44 PM
I do agree with what you said about how that to Continue after AR with a Ripley 8 would be something that Fans may not be willing to see, because of HOW it was that AR was really viewed as being the Worse of the Quadrilogy and i think Fans would NOT want to see a Continuation as some maybe dont see Ripley 8 as Ripley, some also would want it to have to be or at least include the Queen more than we saw in AR.
I think AC leaves us in a similar Boat as in most Fans want NO-PART in the David Creator Plot or a Movie where the Xenomorph takes a Back Seat to other Elements at play.
But i dont see that doing a Bring Back Human Ripley is the way to go... its merely a Fan-service and could lead to a CASH GRAB!
There are other AVENUES to go and give us a ALIEN Movie and indeed a Alien V does-not have to be about Ripley or Ripley 8 or even LV-426.
Would DISNEY have Confidence they can give us another Place where the Xenomorphs are Encountered without having to FEEL they have to bring in Ripley? Are they Confident the Xenomorph on its OWN would SELL?
The other Problem is then making a Movie where you maybe have to be Careful to NOT go and Tread on the Toes of the Prequels and make a Mockery of those....
So as i have said a FEW weeks ago... then YES you can Discover the Xenomorphs again.... but as FAR as to HOW LONG they had been on a World, or their Origin then you just DONT answer that.... so that the Prequels are neither Tarnished or Cemented as the Origin.
But EVEN then.... so you go to another WORLD or another SHIP... and we get Eggs... its a case of WHAT NEXT?
Especially if you DONT go over anything to Indicate as to WHEN the Xenomorph came to be... be that in Favor or the Post 2093 Time-Line or Prior....
Unfortunately as far as Theatrically there is JUST as much Chance you would Damage the Franchise more with another Movie or Prequel.... than if you just WALKED AWAY... and LEFT what is Unanswered as it is.
Jun-26-2020 4:17 PM
50 page treatment is impressive...Not just some idea.
I'm sure they have a treatment if Sigourney tells them no?
Hope it 'accidentally' gets leaked.
Jun-26-2020 4:55 PM
I hope Weaver says to Hill like she did in Aliens-
“You guys throw me to the wolves and now you want me to go back out there? Forget it- it’s not my problem………I said NO and I mean it.”- Ellen Ripley 1986
Jun-27-2020 1:14 AM
I don’t think you need to constantly list - "what and how you can do; what options you have; what you should leave unanswered; what you should consider; which planets to return to; what ways can you go, how long they will use it, etc..."
It is pointless. All that matters is a well-written story. It doesn’t matter if it has Ripley, Queen, ovomorphs, Colonial Marines or another fan service. Already seen or something new, prequels, sequels, retcons - all this pales before one single important thing - a well-written script.
And of course, I will ask again - what's wrong with the $$$$?
If Prometheus and Covenant would raise millions or billions of $$$$ - do you really think that Ridley would stop? He will say something like - "Uh, oh, I can’t always milk pale bodybuilders. Although the next film will bring hundreds of millions more, but I think I need to stop."
Do you really believe that?
I will say this - that was the intention! Ridley thought that Prometheus and Covenant would bring millions and it would be possible to milk the franchise for 1, 2, ..., 5-6 (he really said) sequels!
Money is everything. And Ridley, as a businessman, understands this very well.
In any case - Alien franchise now needs to prove its profitability. New ideas can wait (no one refuses at all, just put it off for later) - first the series should start to generate income! Without this, no one will get any xenomorphs, nor engineers, nor cosmic flutes of the revelation.
And if popcorn-action can put the franchise on its feet - so be it! Give us Queens and Empresses. Human colonies and Alien hives. Colonial Marines and smartguns. You can even bring engineers armed with beam weapons and their Black Goo bombers!
For some, it’s a nightmare, but for others it’s a great dream. But as "someone" said, you cannot please everyone. ©
Jun-27-2020 4:10 AM
I can see the Valid Point you Raise!
You can have a PLOT.. a Great Idea but that does-not mean it would be Executed Well, you need a Good Draft and then you have to Execute that Draft.
In the Alien Franchise this has been Problematic, while Visually its been Decent, then from the Point your making then YES a Movie is only as Good as its Executed Story.
ALIEN was very Well Executed, with ALIENS it is Popcorn but it shows you how to PULL OFF a Popcorn Action Flick with Great Execution. Sadly the other Movies never had this, while there are some GOOD PLOT ideas, and Visuals (Prometheus Especially) they are NOT so Greatly Executed and have Flawed Scripts.
People can Differ on what they want to SEE... some Fans would love to see a Popcorn Fest like a ALIENS 2 or a AVP 3 for example... Prometheus was trying to STEER away from that and to TRY something different. The Intention was to NOT be a Literal ALIEN Franchise but more a Spin Off that would NOT be about the Xenomorph and LV-426.
HOWEVER.... we cant HIDE away from that MOST of the Public will recognize the ALIEN Franchise with ALIENS and what it brought to the Table....
Some Fans would want to see like a ALIENS 2, 3 and so on... i think while having a Good Story is Vital i also think the more you go back to the SAME formula the more it will get STALE but some Fans do love Repetitive Popcorn... and it SELLS! And that is ALWAYS the Biggest Thing...
I think you make a GREAT point about trying something NEW you would First have to START of with something ALIENY as a Basis... the BAIT! if you would..... where you give something that is Similar to ALIEN/ALIENS but you also add something BIT different but sow the Seeds for Sequels where depending on REACTION you can then Gauge how much of a Change to introduce.
Regarding Multiple Prometheus Sequels...
Sure RS would want to see how many Movies to make, he was trying to SET-UP a Expansion where you had Multiple Possibilities, the SCOPE of the PLOT does allow for Expansion and Multiple Movies by Virtue of the Engineers Plot.
It had the Potential to NOT be Confined to the Zeta 2 System on LV-223 then LV-426 where the Engineers Concocted Experiments where the MOST Iconic Result seen so FAR was those Eggs on LV-426 and then the Multiple Attempts and Failures to OBTAIN a Specimen and Exploit it.
I think to Continue with a ALIEN Movie then you DONT have to bring back Ripley and Hicks for Fan-Service... go BUY a Comic Book ;)
I think you can only go back to Queen, Eggs etc as they was Portrayed only a Limited Time before you get into a Starship Troopers Franchise where ALIEN One would have LESS Variation....... but as you said EXECUTION is what counts... the Starship Troopers Franchise was NOT as Well Executed.
So i think you have to UPLIFT and EVOLVE the Story behind the Xenomorph to more than Space Termites, or have Experiments on them that lead to a Evolution, not so much Aesthetically but as far as them becoming more than just BUGZ.
If you want to TRY something NEW then i think that YES the Best Step is to go back and Introduce the Xenomorph as a Introduction into EXPANDING on it and other Things..
I will POST a example latter.....
Sadly i think the Prequels have ONLY cast the Xenomorph in a Limited Light... they seemed to NEED some Uplifting from the Franchise before.... but with them Revealed as being just a Result of a Biological Experiments/Warfare really does make it more Limited to UPLIFT the Classic Vanilla Xenomorph if you would.
For Some Fans this is NOT needed and its FINE how it is... for some Fans another 3-4 Movies that PLOT wise are NO real different to what we had seen already would be FINE.
Regarding the Engineers... i think there are more ways you could Expand on them.... they are NOT just Bald Grey Human Body Builders who Speak Little and want to Drop Goo on everyone ;)
Before the Prequels there was more Potential to Expand the Xenomorph beyond Queen and Eggs... by Uplifting them... the Prequels has kind of made that Difficult...
But NOT impossible with the Right Idea and Execution ;)
Jun-27-2020 5:15 AM
It seems to me Hill & Giller are just unable to uplift and evolve the story since they want to being Ripley back. And let's face it, if that happens, we won't see the Ripley we all loved inn the quadrilogy. That film can't bring anything new, just repeating the old stereotypes. Who the hell still care about Hicks and Newt after 30 years of them being dead and buried? It will be another failure like The Predator that will kill the franchise in the most pathetic way. No, thank. We need something new if we still want to keep the game going.
Jun-27-2020 5:48 AM
How many fans are there in the Alien verse compared to Predator of The Terminator?
Predator and Terminator's latest attempts both crashed hard(trying to capture a new and retain an old fanbase)
Can't imagine xenomorphs chasing marines around will end up much different?
Jun-27-2020 4:22 PM
New member here. Was part of an Alien forum a decade ago dedicated to prometheus.
Obviously the last two films kind of forced out my nostalgia for the series lol. But hoping it gets better and we can finally have a decent one
Jun-27-2020 10:21 PM
LISTEN UP HEAR YE HEAR YE! Town hall meeting!
Attitudes and perceptions about what constitutes a good movie change generationally over decades in the way movies are produced, directed, cast, and the scripts that are written for them.
If you had a slower paced reboot of the movie Alien today with much more spectacular special effects, seamlessly integrating all the newer CGI renders, an incredible cast, strong performances, an incredible complimentary musical score, would audiences enjoy it today in the way they did in 1979?
First the movie Alien that was released in 1979 was unique for its visual effects at the time. Second we had never seen a horror movie at that time with that kind of monster. The monster in Alien is also a unique concept artistically and conceptually as a plot element.
So it is almost impossible to spring that trap and get audiences into a nightmare horror film if they have seen the Xenomorph over a 40 year period. The Xenomorph is about as scary a plot device right now as Elmo on Sesame Street.
You all understand the problem now and there is no more need to go into how this franchise can get out of this dilemma. Alien when it first came out was so scary people ran out of the theaters. I know because I was there in 1979 and watched them run out! Alien was also a very hard R rated film for its day and time. In fact in some ways it was so terrifying it was really X-rated do to the chest buster scene.
That is all history now. Movie goes preferences have changed in dramatic ways. They want to be entertained all right but with what you all might ask?
We know the slow pace of Blade Runner 2049 almost killed it at the box off dead. I think it’s a great film with amazing special effects and incredible acting! However it does not have the big action scenes and types of special effects in very popular contemporary super hero movies of today and so many younger audience members were not able to connect with its slow pace no matter how good the movie was produced.
Prometheus and Alien Covenant are slower paced films as well; but, why are they slower paced?
Watch this documentary to see why and study it. I will give you the condensed version. RS likes to spend enormous sums of money on large sets that take up the size of the largest production stages on the planet. So when you go through them with cameras and actors you go through them slow and tell a different paced story. Visually these sets are masterpieces; however, to millions of audience members they do not connect well with type of visual story telling.
“The Furious Gods – Making Prometheus”
This is going to be a major problem in the next Alien film in the franchise…RS is not going to change his ways.
RS, “How do I do this different. How do I get your attention? How is it gonna be different how it is gonna be new?”
Michael Fassbender, “I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe upset them a little bit or take that risk.”
I have been watching films for almost half a century…I do not make films. I do study films and this is evident. I have studied the Alien films for several years now. There have been other personal projects I have worked on so I have not have time to do thousands of posts on here refuting every nuance and detail of this franchise.
You all think about what I just wrote here with some more critical thought because if and when the next Alien movie ever gets made in this franchise flops due to exactly what I just pointed out then another one is never getting made again.
What we all think might be a great Alien film has nothing to do with who might write the script, the treatment the script gets through it production, who produces is and most definitely who directs the film. These will all have to be flawless in execution in every detail and we will have to see something new and exciting….something never seen before. The possibilities are endless yes but so much has already been done over and over again.
Here are some fun photos from the past.
Thinking back through all the years we rarely have time to appreciate all the wonderful human qualities of these artists.
I often lose a lot of time to wondering what should be in a new script or Alien film and yet it is nice to see other perspectives and views from different photos taken at different times.
Jun-28-2020 3:16 AM
>>>Prometheus was trying to STEER away from that and to TRY something different. The Intention was to NOT be a Literal ALIEN Franchise but more a Spin Off that would NOT be about the Xenomorph and LV-426.
Oh, not again! Forget at least one day about xenomorphs, Ripley, Queen and Fans. Forget the Alien: Engineers.
The problem is not to get away from the usual things and do something new. The problem is that Prometheus as is was brutally cut and altered because Ridley did not want to show us tasty things in the first film. And I repeat, especially for you - I'm not talking about xenomorphs, Ripley, Queens, Fans, ovomorphs and more. I'm talking about Prometheus and what Ridley cut out of it for endless milking in next films.
- The great begin with several Engineers (I already know what you will answer).
- Dialogue with an engineer (if this was not the reason for the transformation of the Cosmic Jockey into a humanoid? It seems like - how will they communicate with people if they are of a different form? And then - cut out all the dialogs. Complete nonsense).
- changing the sequence of Filefield's attack.
- characters without the instinct of self-preservation (Alien or Fans are to blame for this too?)
- general attempt to catch the viewer on the hook with unanswered questions (mystery box) in order to lure into next films.
He wants to get away from xeno and LV-426? Please! But it is important to keep the quality of the script, and not just the visual effects at the highest level. plus, to be honest - if you want to tell a story, then let it fit into one movie. Of course, some grandiose stories cannot be put into one film. But in this case, at least you need to complete the story arc of one film from beginning to end. Without interrupting the story with the words: "I will tell you later." Maybe yes, or maybe not.
The most ironic is that Covenant dealt with it better. It works better, like a story!
This is what I want to say - a physical limit on the number of stories allows you to create more specific things. Without an infinite 1-2 sequel, or maybe 5-6.
This is a great soil for procrastination. And milking. xDDDDDDD
>>>Some Fans would want to see like a ALIENS 2, 3 and so on...
If you meet Alien fans, it will be a shock for you to find out that a very, very small number of people want to see Aliens 2. A very small number of people want to see Blomkamp's Alien or Hill's Alien. The queen is not really needed, and they want to leave Ripley aside.
Therefore, your nitpicking to Ripley, the Fans, the Queen look far-fetched and cause bewilderment.
Jun-28-2020 4:10 AM
This is not so much a complaint but a critique of what you just posted. I think the majority of us are well aware of what was great about Prometheus and what will no longer work with many different audiences today.
Did you read anything I wrote in the post above yours?
Seriously all I hear is complaints in these forums no offence ok because there is a lot to be upset about with the franchise.
Do you have any original ideas that would be a solid win for the franchise as a whole at the box office because if you don't you are just adding to the confusion and uselessness....and believe me I do not mean the to be harsh but it is the truth.
I pointed out very clearly that audiences did not connect well with the last two films....for Prometheus we all know it was the scripts and budget cuts, and editing....that is all very old news.....now how about getting to the real root of the problems....one how the movies are structured for all different audiences today, because if you cannot solve that problem you got nothing.
Look at the size of this sound stage at Pinewood Studios in England. It is longer than a football field and RS filled it completely with large sets that the actors had to walk through very slowly to film a two hour film....most of the film is about these giant stets but it slows down the entire pace of the film.
Talk is cheap until you have something real to add. As of right now I will admit I got nothing either except some cheap talk too but at least I have a firmer grasp of at least the direction a new film should take. This I know for sure....you do another slow paced sleep fest and you will kill this think dead real fast and lose tens of millions at the box office. Most Sci-fi today is high paced action with a lot of very expensive effects shots....I cannot help you or anyone else here if you all do not want to believe that or just do not care or cannot figure this out!
Jun-28-2020 6:11 AM
So...I still don't understand? Sigourney was given a 50 page treatment a year and half ago. This 50 page treatment is dated March 2020? Did she get this version as well? Or did they write her out of this treatment?
Jun-28-2020 7:53 AM
MonsterZero that't something nobody understands.
But that line "In space no one can hear you dream" it's just pretentious nonsense bullshit.
That draft has to go directly to the garbage bin.
Sigourney Weaver is right. Hill and Giller have to stop the fingering.
Jun-28-2020 8:44 AM
I could see a dream angle.....Ripley tries to interface with MUTHUR or the W-Y network(she wants to track the company) though a neural link and they catch her, they torture her mind...then locate her body and do same. Rebecca and Hicks save her...but Ripley has gleaned enough info to be really dangerous to W-Y...
And I'm NOT suggesting they feed her scary dreams...that would be trope cliche' hell!
W-Y warp her mind and she starts doing bad stuff to herself and others...When she kills Jonesy II you know something is wrong.
Jun-28-2020 10:01 AM
You are selling yourself shot....never allow your self not to dream too big.....what do you want most out of this franchise?
You see an older Sigourney at 70 relating to audiences that were not even born 30 years ago when she starred in these films?
Lets have a look....
Just imagine you are the casting director and she comes in to read the script for a screen test.
Who do you see here now?
You have no idea the profound respect I have for her as an actress. Yet I still cannot see any possible way she could be the leading actress in 100 million dollar plus Alien film needing to rebooting the franchise, solidifying the canon, or RETCON it taking incredible gambles on entire production's investment and future titles.
I think she could do a fast cameo perhaps. RS got so lucky with Prometheus, we all know it should have failed at the box office do its script and editing. Visually it is an incredible film. Alien Covenant is not even close to the film Prometheus is in terms of scale and special effects and they have the box office receipts to prove it.
No I think this time around we want substance so strong, so new, so profound, we see something never done before in film.....
If you have any idea what that might entail or anyone else I sure would love to hear about it.
Jun-28-2020 10:03 AM
Ripley stabbed the young man. blood spurted, a fine mist filled the air, something to do with the victims breathing? She removed the knife. Suddenly the cabin door 'chimed'.
Ripley looked up, "Yes, who is it?"
Leaving the bed and striding towards the door; making sure to check the mirror, 'Bed head' she smirked, covered in blood and fixing her hair, she opened the door.
The two marines were startled by the bloody woman, they jumped back and drew their firearms.
The one on the left stammered, "Maam?!"
Jun-28-2020 12:17 PM
Plans for the day?
Kill as many as possible.
MUTHER had made it perfectly clear; Humans were her problem. It made perfect sense and for the first time in Ellen Ripley's life, she was in control and Finally something was going her way. It was about Goddamned time. She netted with MUTHUR and headed for the door.
Jun-28-2020 1:32 PM
Stealing the ship was easy….Why was she stealing a ship?!....Ripley wanted Hicks' help, but the bastard turned her down….and according to MUTHUR, alerted the police! Who needs him. MUTHUR readied the vessel by sending the crew away and filing a flight plan. The ship was hers.
I don't know....I think Sigourney would love to play this type of character?
Jun-29-2020 4:59 AM
When i mention about Ripley, Queens etc i am not pointing out anyone in Particular and i am NOT referring to EVERYONE... its why i say SOME Fans.
I think the Biggest Problem in regards to this seems to be the STUDIO, they seemed to think that the Xenomorph needed to come back and its Origins Given.
What we have RIGHT now is that Hill/Giler seem to think that a Story to Bring back Ripley is what is more LIKELY to be something that DISNEY would go for and that they would think would MAKE the most money and be the LESS Risky way Forwards.
My Perspective is that while RIPLEY was a Iconic Part of the Franchise, she had her STORY told from ALIEN to ALIEN 3...
I think her Portrayal in the Franchise was Good, we did see her Resurrected to a Degree in Alien Resurrection but this is NOT really our Original Ripley although towards the END we did see her Character seem more like what we saw in Alien 3
I dont see the NEED to bring back Ripley, i think if THEY wanted to see a Miss Weaver return then it should be to Continue with the Ripley 8 Arc.
The Franchise was more about the XENOMORPH but by the Time we got past the AVP Movies, the Xenomorph became a bit of a JOKE.. well it was Downgraded... and i feel IF you are NOT really Careful then going back to the Xenomorph as it was over and over, you run the Risk of it becoming NOT as Iconic as it Once was.. like with Jason Voorhees
I and its just my Personal Opinion, some will Differ Greatly while some may kind of agree... Is that if you are t Continue with some Humans Discovering a Egg or a Queen etc then to Repeat that THEME over and over, it will RUN out of Mileage.
This is WHEN you maybe have to look at the Following.
1) What would the COMPANY (or other Factions) actually do with the Xenomorph if they SUCCESSFULLY obtained ONE and got some kind of Containment?
If this is just to Transport Eggs down to Infest a World or City or Country then what your going to have is just a AVPR.
2) Is there some other AGENDA behind WHY would someone wish to Continuously Obtain a Xenomorph?
Beyond using Eggs to Infest a Place?
3) Is there any Purpose to the Xenomorph itself than being just a Invasive Species like Super Termites. So does the Discovery of a Infected World just be like Stumbling on a Termite Infestation?
4) So what about the Origins of the Xenomorph, where they Discovered or Created?
5) If this is purely they are a Engineered Biological Weapon then the BIGGER Question is by WHO and WHY?
And so before the PREQUELS then these are all Open to be Explored, with the Prequels they kind of show us the Xenomorph is NOTHING more than the Result of a Biological Weapons Division used to create a Pathogen that a Consequence or Engineered Design from it are a PARASITIC and Invasive Species which lead to Eggs...
So that really leaves with HOW/WHEN do the Eggs get onto the Derelict but then WHAT?
One PUZZLE we have yet to see Answered really is HOW does a Queen come to be? Would the Answer be NOT that much different to BEE or TERMITE? who knows.. It would seem that Some Eggs can Produce a Face Hugger that Implants a Queen Embryo... but ONCE we are shown HOW this Egg is Carrying a Queen then its WHERE do you go NEXT?
You would have to TRY and Uplift or Evolve the Xenomorph beyond what we saw, and if thats just Different Colors and Slight Mutations then you have to be Careful that we are NOT just going to be doing a Starship Troopers.
The Beast is also NOT as Scary as it Once Was... the Neomorph was Horrific but it would NOT have the same Effect as the Chest Buster in the 80's and so Aesthetically you not going to SCARE people... you have to being the TERROR in from having the Audience make a Connection with the Characters who will be Suffering the Horror..... which is WHY we saw AVPR Fail as well WHO CARED about any of those Characters.
So what i am saying is that giving us the BEAST alone would be Difficult without a Good Story and Characters we can Care about so any HORROR becomes more Real.
Or... you just turn it into a Gung Hoo Action Movie, which is where you risk Alien Movies becoming more like Starship Troopers.
Thats WHY i think there is Limited Scope with the Xenomorph if you DONT try and Change or Uplift it, which is DIFFICULT due to the Prequels and Especially with AC.
Jun-29-2020 5:27 AM
Then YES i agree some of the Changes where a BIT odd...
Some of them are MADE so that some Mystery can be Covered in Sequels... and If there is NO such thing then we get another Mystery Box... which ALIEN was also!
During the Shooting and Edit of Prometheus some Changes where MADE that i think were Quiet Puzzling.
The Whole Weyland Awakens and Fifield Attack for example. The Original Shot and Order would NOT really have affected the Pacing Much...
Fifield... well the Concepts and Props where better, but RS claimed he liked the Performance of Toxic Avenger Sean Harris that he decided to KEEP that Version.
I feel that Fifield was NOT nearly Alien enough and Accounted for TOO MANY of the Fatalities. A Substitute for a Xenomorph he was NOT.
The Engineer vs Dr Shaw re-shoot because RS felt that the Original both took away some Mystery of the Engineer but more so did-not show him in a STRONGER light... made him basically NOT look as Aggressive and Mean as his First Attack.
But by Virtue of the Burns Make Up.... it meant that other Scenes had to be CUT as you would ASK where did the Burn come from... these Scenes likely would have affected the Pacing though.
The Elders Scene... well we only had a CUT down version even in the Deleted Scenes... RS felt he did not want to GIVE away to much about the Engineers and he DID-NOT want to Meet GOD in the First Movie.
Which maybe gets us to ask WAS he not pleased with the Elders? had he Envisioned them to LOOK more different in Future?
I dont think that was a PROBLEM... (removal of that Scene) as it means they could CHANGE the Hierarchy above our Engineers we saw in Prometheus.... and they can SHOW us who they are in a Sequel (which well AC never really did enough).
I liked the Scope of Prometheus it opened up that BOX that the ALIEN Franchise was Contained in, to Explore something else and NEW.... The Change of Direction with Alien Covenant just kind of TOOK that Scope and Put it back into a BOX.
What we have NOW is PICKLE as far as to HOW do we Continue... but the Prequels is a Separate debate to the News Article
The Topic is looking at how it seems that Giler and Hill seem to think the BEST way Forwards for the Franchise is just to GO BACK and bring back Ripley and likely the Xenomorph....
They are thinking that while the Original 4 Movies where about Ripley and the Xenomorph, they seem to think that THESE are the things that are SAFE to play with and MAKE those in Charge of Disney decide to GO AHEAD with a NEW Alien Movie.
As i have said a Number of Times.... you DONT have to bring back Ripley or even go for a Ripley 8 Movie.... to give us ANOTHER Movie in the ALIEN Franchise.
You dont really NEED to touch on the Prequels either in ORDER to come across another SHIP or more EGGS...but i think you have to SET-UP from such a PLOT other ways to UPLIFT the Franchise or Change things...
2 More Movies about Eggs that go around Face Hugging and Chest Bursting and Snarling and that some Company thinks this would make a Handy Weapon... would really LIMIT how you can Continue with the Franchise.
This is NOT aimed at ANYONE.
I know Leto you said its not about Ripley and Queen and i agree, i think the Franchise Continuation you have to introduce the Xenomorph but then SET-UP ways to Evolve or Change it beyond what we had...
The Prequels... well a Prometheus Sequel had GREAT Potential... but then we got Alien Covenant.. and well that has Damaged some of the Scope, while more so DEGRADING what everyone would have expected from the Xenomorph and Space Jockey.
Jun-29-2020 5:53 AM
I think to GET BACK to the Topic at Hand....
Looking at the Potential that THIS will be the Direction of the Next Installment then HOW do Fans Feel is what Chris was looking at.
"ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM, IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM"
At the Moment i think we can ASSUME that some of the Franchise will be WIPED OFF as just a Dream of Ripleys!
So its a CASE of WHEN did this Dream within a Dream Begin?
After Ripley is Tucked in on the Sulaco?
Or is this ALL a Dream from aboard the Narcissus?
I think having ALIENS as a Dream would cause a $£%& Storm..... and i will think thats a MISTAKE as i think ALIENS was a Good Sequel.....
Personally i dont think any DREAM route would be WISE.. because then its WHEN do they Stop making Movies that are Dreams...
And also they surely CANT be thinking of having Ripley in a Large Role where she will have to be DE-AGED for the Entire Movie? Get this RIGHT and it may be FINE... but if WRONG it look a Bit Silly.
If she awakens from the Sulaco... then your gonna have to ANSWER as to WHERE is Hicks and Newt?
Having her Awaken on the Narcissus could be Interesting i Guess...
You have a De-Aged Ripley be awoken, she Starts to Scream and Demand where is NEWT... where is HICKS!
As the Medical Team look Puzzled and try and Calm her Down she Lashes Out.... in comes someone with a Syringe...
Its ASH.... and Ripley is like "Stay the £%&% away from me"
We then go to the Future some 20 Years latter and show that Ripley is in a Mental Institute
She is HELD their for being Unstable and Charged with the Destruction of the Nostromo its Haul and the Crew. While she KEEPS on Claiming it was due to a Organism on LV-426
While she then goes on about the Colony on LV-426 that DOES-NOT exist... and so NO-ONE will believe her about the Nostromo!
You then have to come up with a PLOT to HOW you introduce the Xenomorph and HOW you involve Ripley... she maybe could ESCAPE and uncover some Horror about LV-426
or she is SHOWN some Evidence that on LV-426 there is NOTHING!
She starts to Question if indeed she was Dreaming it all... Then she gets a Revelation from Someone that the COMPANY had obtained the Derelict and its Stored Some Place!
OFF she goes to PUT a Stop to it all.
This could WORK... but i feel it would PISS OFF just as Many (if ALIENS never Happened) than the David created the Xenomorph Aspect!
Such a PLOT could take Place after the Sulaco.
Ripley starts to think its ALL a Dream...
Until a Woman tries to BREAK her out of the Mental Ward and CLAIMS that she is NEWT and that the Company have the Derelict at some Place.
Such PLOTS could work around the DREAM Arc... and GET around the NEED for a De-Aged Ripley for most of the Movie.
Jun-29-2020 2:00 PM
Sigourney and CGI.
I think Sigourney is okay with this? I mean she's signed on to the next 5 or 6 Avatars. that's like 10 years from now we'll still watching her. Roll on Alien 5, 6 , 7 , 8 etc...
Ripley and the three xenomorphs entered the room, crowding behind her, she ‘told’ xenomorph #1 ‘Kane’ to guard the exit, xenomorph #2 ‘Dallas’ to take the ceiling,’ Parker’(xeno #3) to target the next door. MUTHUR told her the room beyond was empty.. but she didn’t trust her. Besides, they’d need a clear escape route. Centering herself, she directed Parker to take out the door.
The door exploded. Ripley shook her head, ‘Parker sure was a bull in a china shop’, she signaled Dallas and Kane to join him. They scurried past her. She took up the rear.
I think this was something like Blomkamp had in mind?
Jun-29-2020 2:54 PM
I would only trust Ridley Scott for the next film in the franchise. I want to see what David would do next. I don't want to see Ripley, especially not de-aged, that would be an insult to Sigourney Weaver and to those who are around for some time. Let Cameron do what he wants with his franchise to be, Avatar, those are films that you only see once if you are patient enough.
I think we are talking too much about Hill and Giller's draft, that would probably find its place in a comic book one day.
Jun-29-2020 4:05 PM
Unfortunately daliens with Disney in Charge then Stories that you would see in the Comics are what they would LIKELY want to Bring to the Screen.
I agree that Davids Arc has to be Completed... but i just CANT see this Happening on Screen... But it Deserves a NOVEL that can Do It Justice without the Restraints of a Running Time of a Theatrical Movie ;)
I Wonder if Hill and Giler have given this to Miss Weaver knowing if she gives her Approval and Fans get WHIFF of this kind of Plot (Return of Ripley) then it may Generate some Excitement like Blomkamps Alien 5 did.
His Alien 5 was put on Back Burner to give us Alien Covenant... chances are Disney would be more OPEN to a idea like Blomkamps and Hill/Gilers than to Continue with the Prequels...... Unfortunately.
Jul-02-2020 9:44 AM
I did not read the whole discussion, sorry, so I may repeat some arguments, but still I want add my two cents.
Firstly I am against ignoring any Alien films (except AvP) it would be disrespectful for those films, actors, crew members and fans. But I would be more than open to creating BluRay/Disney+ re-editions of Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection that would fixed problems an inconsistencies and would be new canon and Alien 5 would be sequel for the new cannon.
Saying that I would love to see direct sequel to Alien Resurrection. And it is only option for seeing Sigourney Weaver without de-ageing fighting Xenomorphs due to her Xeno DNA. Just imagine that Queen in Alien Resurrection was taken from Ripley 7 and that from Ripley 8 was transported on to another military base. United Systems Military would learn from the epic disaster of USM Auriga and would be far better prepared for potential Xenomorph escape. I have some cool ideas to be included in script (e.g. Annalee Call's religiosity and can she even be a Christian, especially that she follows ultra conservative branch of Catholics like SSPX), but I still don't have ideas for the main action parts (I imagine that USM would like to take advantage of that Xenomorphs would treat Ripley 8 as part to the hive.
Jul-02-2020 3:49 PM
I applaud you ;)
Certainly i think its the WAY to go as far as IF they want to bring Miss Weaver back ;)
I have quite a Number of Times brought up a FEW ideas to HOW you could do that and GET OVER... a Excessive use of CGI to De-Age our Ripley 8
Its also interesting you bring up the Failed Ripley 7 Queen.
Where did that GET TO?
I had a idea for where that got taken to as a Parallel Movie to Alien Resurrection (Happens around the same Time-Period)
Jul-02-2020 4:40 PM
Are there any xenomorphs left after Alien : Resurrection?!
Was the Auriga their only supply? All their eggs in one basket so to speak?
To me this is where the sequel needs to start: where does the new supply of ovomorphs come from?
Jul-02-2020 7:39 PM
Well that Question has Changed somewhat with Alien Covenant.
A BIG QUESTION for Alien : Resurrection was WHY would they result to Cloning Ripley to get a Xenomorph?
You would have to ASSUME that there was NO-WHERE that the USM had knowledge of where you could OBTAIN any Xenomorphs or Related.
The Technology/Knowledge that allowed USM to obtain a Xenomorph from Ripley's DNA would surely mean they could Experiment with the Failed Ripley 7 Queen and maybe OBTAIN a more Pure Specimen?
Regardless of the Revelation about the Origins of the Xenomorph and the Derelict Cargo... WE cant 100% assume the Derelict was the ONLY ship that had Eggs loaded into its Cargo Hold.
So there are Avenues to Obtain the Xenomorph....
Jul-03-2020 7:17 AM
While back to the OT!
How would you feel if this IDEA of Hill/Giler throws us a CURVE-BALL.
That it was ALL a Dream?
Or what if ALIEN V is set after Ripley is Rescued from the Narcissus and therefor ONLY the First Movie was NOT a Dream?
Personally i think all 4 Original Movies have to remain as they are ;)
Jul-03-2020 1:38 PM
"How would you feel if this IDEA of Hill/Giler throws us a CURVE-BALL."????
Ohhh BigDave how could you! how could you!
I think this is how we might feel watching that kind of movie in the first place!!!!
A hundred posts later and I thought we all agree the Alien Ripley story is a horrrrrrrrible idea!!! HORRRIDDDABLE!!!
This narrative just get classier and classier by each post....
Jul-03-2020 1:54 PM
For Ripley: Continue with her and CGI treatment after Resurrection or just give her some voice overs (ala Paul) or silhouetted cameo shots if after Alien/Aliens. Easy peasy. But as a main character? Nah, let her rest.
Jul-04-2020 4:01 AM
Alien is Jonesy's nightmare.
Jonesy's existence is the Last Engineer's nightmare.
The Last Engineers and Prometheus is the Shaw's nightmare.
Shaw's existence is Dr. Watts' nightmare.
Dr. Watts existence is Roby's nightmare.
Roby's existence is Star Beast's nightmare.
Star Beast is a nightmare of the Cosmos.
Jul-04-2020 5:00 AM
>>>A BIG QUESTION for Alien : Resurrection was WHY would they result to Cloning Ripley to get a Xenomorph?
I don’t think you need to suffer from overthinking every time you come across lazy writing.
>>>Its also interesting you bring up the Failed Ripley 7 Queen.
It would be most rational to think that Queen 7 repeated the fate of Queens 1-6. That is - it was dead/degraded. And it was not suitable for any experiments, except for an autopsy.
Given the fact that scientists aboard Auriga were a kind of perfectionist fanatics, we can assume that Queen 7 was a useless abomination for them.
In addition, experiments on Auriga have not been approved by the USM. I do not think that there was a second base/ship for additional experiments.
Jul-05-2020 6:29 AM
Certainly Good Points... I was merely suggesting that these could be Explored as a Option but in all Likeliness there would have been seen as NO point because of Ripley 8 and her Queen.
Going back to a ALIEN V that does-not try and REBOOT/RETCON anything, then with Ripley 8 i guess you could TRY and obtain her Xenomorph DNA to again try and Obtain a Pure Specimen.... but i feel that from the Perspective of WHY they would want a QUEEN.. then surely Ripley 8 is the better Prospect for Biological Weapons Research.
I think you made a Good Point about Lazy Writing... and so INDEED i think IF we ever get another ALIEN Movie then that does not mean they would TRY and make it FIT with what have seen...
They could just NOT bother with Details or HOW this and THAT came to be......
ALIEN 3 being a Prime Example in Regards to the Eggs.
Jul-08-2020 9:15 AM
If we are discussing what should be kept and what should not I would say keep 1, 2, and 3 and throw everything else away. Everything after 3 is a bunch of disappointments meaning that they have more disappointing things than what I would consider good.
Jul-09-2020 3:48 AM
@BigDave, it's not lazy writing. The clues are all there:
- The impossibility of the egg being on the Sulaco in Alien 3
- The terrible animatronics
- The utterly unconvincing explosion at the end of Resurrection
I don't know what else you need to convince you that all these things were just someone's bad dream in hypersleep!
Jul-09-2020 7:22 AM
Ha Ha YES indeed that could Explain Away some of the Flaws ;)
I think Moving On... and looking at the Hill/Giler idea we have to WONDER at WHAT point is it all a DREAM?
Could they be THROWING a Curve-ball in?
So it gives them the Opportunity to even go back and make ALIENS as a Dream. I know this would GREATLY upset a MASS of Fans though.
However it could UPLIFT the Original Xenomorph.
Alien Resurrection we saw that Ripley 8 had the Xenomorph in her BLOOD.
If we had it that the Xenomorph in ALIEN had somehow Managed to Telepathically Implant itself into the SOUL of Ripley maybe that could be Interesting. The reoccurring Dreams are just the TIP of the ICEBERG!
However i think the PREQUELS seem to give a LESSOR ROLE to the Xenomorph at Present. So exploring the Beast having the Ability to Manipulate the Mind/Actions of someone it comes into Contact with could be a HARD STRETCH.
I think if the PLOT is about her Dreaming since she was on the Sulaco at the END of ALIENS... then it will be Interesting to see HOW do they Explore the Return of the Xenomorph and if they CHANGE anything or is it just another BUG HUNT?
I Wonder if they would EXPLORE some ideas from Earlier Drafts of ALIEN?
We know that O'Bannons earliest Draft was called Memory where he had NOT yet came up with the Life-Cycle. Instead we had a Artifact that would STEAL the Memories of would be Explorers, which then Evolved to would be Explorers having LOOSE their Memories..
To then a Organism that Grows inside a Discovered Skull before we eventually get the LIFE-CYCLE and changes to become STARBEAST draft.
So i am Wondering if they have some Curve-Ball to give us rather than it just being a Blomkamp Alien 5 where Alien 3 on wards are Cryo-Dreams... maybe something has EFFECTED our Ripley more than merely BAD DREAMS?
Jul-11-2020 5:03 AM
Sooo, I though that the queen from Alien Resurrection could be from Ripley 7 and it would be explain why such abomination as Newborn was born by the queen. But if the queen on USM Auriga was from Ripley 8 and we go with the plot that queen from Ripley 7 was transported to other facility then the film could (and probably should) go with new Xenomorphs being somewhat (or even heavily) deformed. But fans might disappointed without the 'perfect specimen' on screen.
I also think that USM Auriga was super secret facility outside the official budget of USM. And with destruction of Auriga most of the knowledge about Xenomorphs would be destroyed. But still the Auriga project would be subordinate to someone or some department of USM. And I could imagine a situation that people who accepted the Auriga project would become fed up with wasting money without any affects and it was the reason why they demanded that queen from Ripley 7 or 8 would be moved to other facility. So after destruction of Auriga the USM would have an Xenomorph queen but most of the knowledge would be lost, so the new project would have to start basically from scratch.
But still, after 25 years, I think it is possible that new research team was able to subdue Xenomorphs and make them an absolutely obedient 'service dog', for example via some electronic implants. And the new 'outbreak' would be because some Xenos were so intelligent that they removed theirs implant (with the extremely precise second jaw). And it is the reason why USM are trying to lure Ripley 8 in, because they need her help.
I always tough that after USM Auriga destruction Ripley 8 and Annalee Call would settle in some remote location like Alaska, Yukon or Nunavut while Ron Johner and Dom Vriess would go back to being mercenaries. And I am imaging that USM would have no idea about Ripley's 8 whereabouts while they where able to locate "New Betty" with Johner and Vriess (I imagine him in full exoskeleton with strength matching a Xenomorph :D), plug an agent in "New Betty" crew and stage a Xenomorph attack that Johner and Vriess in act of desperation would send distress call to Call and Ripley 8. But still I lack of ideas what for exactly Ripley 8 would be needed and how would the action sequences would look like.
Jul-12-2020 11:26 AM
Indeed their are OPTIONS...
This idea does look at similar to what you put... a Failed Ripley 7 Clones Queen... Something that is a HYBRID but more Menacing than the New Born, that Procreates by Giving Birth to LIVE Young.... so Fully Formed Small Morphs like the Xenomorph in AC and Neomorphs... that would then Rabidly Grow to Adult.
These Hybrid Xenomorphs would Procreate via Egg Morphing which leads to again a Morph growing inside (NOT a Face Hugger) so the Hybrids would do away with that Part of the Life Cycle.
I had another Idea that would Follow Ripley 8 as i think she is like the Ultimate Specimen.. a Super Enhanced Human with Genetic Memory Transfer.
It would explore the AUTONS who would claim to WANT to Help Ripley 8 but they are actually just after her DNA to use as a Bio-Weapon to RULE the World and Galaxy.
But i am STARTING to lose HOPE with any Future Alien Movie.
They may as-well have Ripley wake up on the Sulaco then back to LV-426 only for Tony Stark to Turn up with the Avengers at the END via a Time Machine ;)
Hydra and Weyland Yutani have Merged and are working for the Engineers...... BUT with the Help of the Predators the Avengers and Ripley can SAVE the Day...
Then the Sequel we reveal that Thanos is a Engineer Elder who works for the TRUE Race that are the Space Jockey!
But the Antman/Wasp share Tech with Tony Stark for Micro-Iron Man Suit and they Shrink Down to Atomic Scale to Manipulate and Harness the Black Goo.
The Final Battle sees Super Large Iron Man and Ant-Man Battle the King Space Jockey and HULK-MORPH!
While then using the Ant-Man Tech the Space Jockey Unleashes the ULTRAMORPH... a 50ft Xenomorph Flying Queen!
But Ripley Turns up in a SUPER Power Lifter... and Kills the Ultramorph and King Space Jockey.
The END CREDITS we see that Ripleys Work is NOT over and that HYDRA and the Space Jockey are Servants to Cthulhu and so Ripley in her 40ft Power Loader is joined by Mega Size Ant-Man and Iron Man and the Pacific Rim Jaegers as they MUST go and Destroy Cthulhu and its Underwater Minions!